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09-29-2013, 10:45 PM
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
I guess you have talked about New Jerseys defensive system allready? Can you link me to a good reply about this, having trouble figuring that out for a long time.
A good reply about what? Their system? It was a system that favoured defense, especially under Jacques Lemaire. Is this what you are looking for?

Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Because as early as 1995 (well before the '98 "outlier"), and right up until 1999, he's lauded as one of the best offensive defensemen in the league, who played some of the most minutes on one of the best defensive teams in a defensive era, and already had two Cup rings to show for it.
Look, I'll even cherry pick things for you. 1995-'00 here were the highest scoring defensemen in the NHL. This is before Niedermayer missed 25 games in 2000-'01. It still doesn't scream "elite" to me and there weren't any signs of him breaking out for good then either.

Lidstrom - 313
Leetch - 294
Bourque - 289
Zubov - 259
Duchesne - 210
15th Niedermayer - 209

He was still considerably far back from the truly offensive elite. Less than Svehla, Numminen. Barely more than Kevin Hatcher and Boris Mironov. Lumme had the same PPG as he did during this time. That sort of corroborates the way I was looking at things. He wasn't showing signs of coming of age.

To top it off, despite being on a strict defensive system in New Jersey he wasn't as good defensively as people like to remember at that time. He had breakdowns.

Throw all that together, the eye test, the memory test, his offensive numbers, his Norris finishes pre-2004 and it ties into what I remember so much about him at that time, he was a tease with his talent and he didn't show it to the world at the time.

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