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10-17-2013, 09:19 PM
  #109
Ail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
In general, I would agree with this, but the argument people keep making is that Del Zotto should be traded because A- he can't get shots on goal and B- because John Moore is apparently going to replace him. Del Zotto has put more shots on goal during the games that they have both been Rangers, and you can't say that a player (Moore) is going to replace another player's (MDZ) production, and then say that you have to ignore...the (lack of) production.
Getting shots on goal alone is a bad reason I agree. I also agree John Moore shouldn't be looked at as a replacement, but an alternative. If I am advocating trading DZ it would be because he would be more valuable to the team being dealt based on his potential, rather than whatever he actually is. Not because he can easily be replaced or anything like that. The injuries to the D last year and prior show that the NHL caliber depth is not enough to be giving up DZ without a replacement, which there is none at the moment because even Moore was capable, who then replaces him? Again, I'm only trading DZ if the return is too good to pass up, but I am not very optimistic about him reaching his ceiling mostly because he seems to have confidence issues which to me are a huge red flag.

Quote:
No, I don't think I will stop with the 23 "crap." It isn't crap just because it's true and you don't want it to be. Also, one of the reasons I keep bringing it up is because the same people LOVE to say Del Zotto has hit his ceiling and Moore will develop into a player he's never shown himself to be. Claiming that Del Zotto won't get better and that Moore will develop into a top pair guy is ABSURD when they are the same age.
Again I agree that is a double-standard and a bad one at that. For me it's a matter of reaching potential. they both have an equal chance of developing in to what they were projected to be, but again, I just don't have much faith in DZ. Moore has plenty to prove but he has yet to be given the opportunity MDZ has. I would like to see how he handles being given similar responsibilities.

Quote:
This is a massive reach and you know it. Why did Fast get a spot over Kreider or Powe? The latter two have more of a track record than Fast. Moore and Del Zotto have the exact same history with AV, and it's pretty clear who AV sees as the better defenseman. And again, my point wasn't even about head to head TOI (which MDZ wins), but about the fact that, without MDZ playing, Moore still didn't get that ice time. When a coach shortens his bench rather than promoting a player, that has nothing to do with a player "not having fingerprints" in a team (itself a ridiculous claim. This isn't a rookie here. Moore is 22 years old with more than 100 NHL games).
Moore and DZ have the same track record with AV, but not with the Rangers. I can't imagine DZ doesn't get a bigger benefit of the doubt and also less pressure to perform in his role simply because his tenure in NY has been much longer. I don't disagree that AV probably feels DZ is the better defensemen coming in to the season, (and he should be with a lot more NHL experience) but my point was AV hasn't had enough time to get HIS fingerprints on the team and what he sees when taking over the team will be much different by the end of this season. Moore is definitely not a rookie, but he will be given more opportunities here in NY he was not previously. Maybe he'll run with it.

Quote:
I don't see all that much love for Dorsett (the exact opposite, actually). As for Brassard, if people were saying that we should trade Stepan because Brassard will take the spot soon anyways, then you would have a point.

People see in Moore what they want/hope to see. That's not a good thing, because it's just going to make you all hate him when he ends up being what he actually is.
I just meant at the time of the trade. Brassard was replacing Richards and instantly becoming the 2C, Dorsett was going to be Prust 2.0 and the spark the team needed in the bottom 6. People were gushing over those two, a couple of people said Moore was a great skater. That was about it.

Right now, yes, Dorsett is falling out of favor, Brassard is still about where he was. Moore has onlt really gained any traction because DZ has had an abysmal start to this season. So has most of the team though, so that cannot be ignored. The problem with DZ however is once he gets in his head after a slump, it tends to worsen in a bad way. Hopefully he'll bounce back soon.

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