How Many Players Now Regret the Tortorella Firing?
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11-10-2013, 02:48 PM
Join Date: Jul 2004
Originally Posted by
You're simply using a strawman argument and moving the goalposts so that Dubinsky can fit into YOUR definition of a good player. He didn't and doesn't always backcheck like a monster. Speaking in absolutes doesn't make your argument stronger. He isn't a goal scorer that is fine, but at every level he generally scored close to the same amount of goals and assists. He did it here and hasn't done it since '11-'12 so now you're saying he was never supposed to score goals, so those years were flukes? Good to know thank you for clarifying.
First--based on this post, you have no idea what a strawman argument or moving the goalposts even mean. Please stop accusing me of things that you don't understand. If you want a look at a strawman argument, look at your last two sentences quoted above. I never said that Dubinsky was never supposed to score goals. I said that he's never been a goalscorer.
You aren't entitled to your own facts, either. You claim that Dubinsky has "at every level...generally scored close to the same amount of goals and assists." That's just not true. It's not even close. Going back to his WHL days (11 years ago) Dubinsky has had more than double the number of assists than goals in 5 of those 11 years (and it appears that number is trending towards 6/12 based on this year). Of the other years, his assist total was 10+ higher than his goal total in all but three years--those three years being the two years that he played wing for the Rangers, and his second year with the Wolfpack (06/07)
Out of 12 seasons of high-level hockey, he has only put up "close to the same amount of goals and assists" in 3. The other years, he was putting up far more (often more than double) assists than goals. So yeah, I would classify those two years at wing as flukes when it comes to goalscoring.
Everyone has bias, I don't dislike Dubinsky as a player I simply do not feel that he is as good as you think he is. He would be a great 3rd line center for our team. You called him out for not shooting altogether, real big knock. Maybe it's because his game fell apart and he wasn't even getting himself into good position.
You also act like him not being active in the offensive zone is a good thing because he's willing to backcheck.
I have never seen a player more romanticized in my life than Brandon Dubinsky.
Now see, there's another strawman argument. This whole stupid argument happened because you jumped into the middle of a discussion where I took issue with this statement from another poster: "You think Torts didn't notice him half-ass every other back check like we did?" Dubinsky didn't half-ass back checks. That doesn't mean that I was happy with how he was playing offensively at all.
Over the course of this thread, YOU are the one who has changed your argument, moved the goalposts, set up strawman arguments, intentionally (and dishonestly) manipulated statistics, made up your own statistics (like the one about him supposedly scoring around the same number of goals and assists) and claimed to be objective about a player you have claimed was "sickening."
When the arguments were shown to be poor and the statistics were shown to be false, you resorted to trying to call me out as biased (ad hominem--you may have actually accomplished all of the logical fallacies in this thread). Take a look at my posting history. I've called him out for what he did poorly. When someone else said they hoped Dubi would win if he got in a fight with Dorsett, I was the first one to post that Dubi was great, but that I hoped Dorsett (a Ranger) kicked Dubi's (a now non-Ranger) ass.
This board has a tendency to dismiss anything good anybody has done in the past. It happened with Renney. It happened with Torts. It happened with Dubi. It's happening now with DZ. Too many people see what they want to see instead of the big picture. You are one of them. And I am done with you. Enjoy winning the internet by making up and/or manipulating stats while simultaneously accusing others of the very same logical fallacies that you are actually committing.
To the other folks reading the thread--I apologize for the detour that we took it down. I had to respond to that last post because of how aggravating it was, but I am done with that side-debate in this thread. Again--apologies.
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