Oates trade revisisted
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01-24-2004, 02:35 AM
Originally Posted by
You must have missed the part about Roenick and Primeau going down with indefinite injuries in the same night. I'm just saying that the value (at least a few years ago) for a proven rental was pretty damn high in terms of prospect assets.
And again, I think you might be overrating some prospects there. I don't think anybody you listed past the 1st round have done anything to make me do a cartwheel. Prospects are nice to have, but sometimes you have to decide if you want to win a Cup, or if you want THN to list you high on their future watch once a year. You tell me which should have been the higher priority for the Flyers.
Oates still would've been a rental player even if Roenick and Primeau were out that season and into the postseason because they would've been back the next year. So what could've they done? Signed Oates and put him on wing? And I still think it's still pretty high now.
I am not overrating some prospects. Let's see Matt Foy had over 100 points in the minors, did really good at the prospect camp for the Wild, and the Wild scouts knew Foy had it in him, even though he had a rotten year in college or wherever he played. Stajan is playing for the Leafs. The goalies, all of them, are pretty strong. Ask any Dallas fan about Stephans. He doesn't get a lot of press. Harding is a possible franchise goalie with a good upside as a number 1 goalie for the Wild, including going to the Junior Championship, winning numerous awards. LeNeveau is an awesome goalie for the Coyotes. He's done extremely well for them in the AHL. Daigneault and Deslauriers are nice for the Caps and the Oilers, I can't comment on them. Lombardi is having a great season this year. Boychuk is a pretty good defensive prospect for the Avalanche.
The thing is, it wasn't just this trade that year that Clarke got had on. I know Pitkanen is one of the best, if not the best defensive prospect right now playing in the NHL. But the thing is if you look at the two trades that Clarke made, look at this:
4th Overall Draft Pick (Joni Pitkanen)
85th Overall in 2003 (Alexander Picard)
To Tampa Bay and Washington
3 Philadelphia 2nds, which ended up being I believe Tobias Stephans and Maxime Daigneault, don't remember what the other one is...Tampa can you help me out here???)
26th Overall (Traded with one of the seconds for the 13th overall, Alexander Semin)
If not anything, depending on who the Flyers picked, they could've had a hell of a return for some of those guys. I know Pitkanen could have a bigger return, but basically that's a lot of prospects that the Flyers shipped out, which kind of feels like the Luongo trade, personally.
Yeah a cup run is nice but when you start really cutting into your draft depth for a rental player, even if he stayed, it would've caused problems.
The other thing is, couldn't they have found a cheaper player?
I mean Newy and Langer were traded for, that would've been nice for the Flyers and I don't think Devils broke the bank for that one, Arnott, McKay, and a 1st...
The question I have is, was Clarke that under the gun at the deadline to get a center in there. Did Roenick and Primeau have injuries right on the deadline?
I don't think I would've traded ALL that to the Capitals just for Oates but I would've tried to come up with something else and if that didn't work, try talking to Stars (last trade I believe of the day was between them and the Devils) to see what they had to offer,
Here's the thing Flyers don't get Oates, get someone like Ronning as a rental, cheaper, maybe for a 2nd or something (I believe a fourth was traded for him).
They keep their picks, 1st, 2nd and 3rd along with Oullette.
They see Pitkanen, Clarke wants to grab him. He packages up a deal with Dallas (similiar to Washington) to move up to the 13th and then trades that to one of the teams up along with Oullette (probably Tampa Bay)
Now with his remaining second he has, he drafts well one of the goalies in the later rounds. Now he has two good goalies Ni...errr...and the other goalie.
See, I don't know. I mean yes Oates was needed but was he so desperately needed that they had to have him instead of some other player?
Hell York was on the table too but then again, he wouldn't have been traded to to the Flyers.
My biggest problem and the problem I have with Clarke is that it feels like he didn't think it out, and he sacrifices a good chunk of the future for now, or really, really good bargining chips for later trades for now.
I guess I see things differently because I watch the Wild and I would've hated to see them trade:
Harding + their 1st (Brent Burns) their 2nd (Patrick O'Sullivan) and their 3rd (Danny Irmen) for a rental player like Oates to make it deeper into the playoffs.
If I could get someone like Ronning, Arnott (not possible for the Flyers, just saying), Newy for a 1st (Burns) and a couple players, I would've done that.
BTW: Antero Niittymäki was drafted one year before Ouellete...so he's had one more year to develop then Ouelette.
Last edited by thestonedkoala: 01-24-2004 at