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02-04-2014, 11:34 AM
  #83
Rhiessan71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
You keep saying "adjusted or not" as if we're supposed to just take 1980s scoring and 2000s scoring at face value. I know you know better than that.


Raw Mario: 1723 points in 915 games
Raw Jagr: 1736 points in 1448 games
That's the Grand Canyon in terms of per-game productivity, no doubt about it.

Adjusted Mario: 1540 points in 914 games
Adjusted Jagr: 1897 points in 1448 games
Still a big per-game gap, but it's significantly smaller if you don't treat scoring in the mid-80s the same as scoring in the early 2000s.


Where I can see an argument for Jagr is that he was actually available for his team for 533 games -- or nearly 7 full seasons -- while Mario was in the press box. Add 3 KHL seasons and 2 lost to labor stoppages, and Jagr is on the ice for twelve more seasons than Mario (and adjust his scoring totals accordingly). That's not some trivial number of games tacked onto the end of his career... that's the length of an entire second career played in Mario's absence. Even if Jagr's scoring rate was much lower than Mario's, there's a certain tortoise-and-hare effect to playing 12 more years than the other guy and still playing elite hockey.


Compare to:

Raw Jagr: 1736 points in 1448 games
Raw Gartner: 1335 points in 1432 games
This favors Jagr.

Adjusted Jagr: 1897 points in 1448 games
Adjusted Gartner: 1142 points in 1432 games
This favors Jagr to Grand Canyon proportions.

Both scoring rates favor Jagr and there is no difference in longevity. Hence, not a good analogy.
The biggest problem I have with using Adjusted Stats here is that DPE AS's are inflated (there are so many DPE values that are just whacked) while 80's AS's are undervalued (top tier scoring did not drop by the same level as overall scoring did). Basically, Jagr is getting a double advantage in this case.

Either way, what you're talking about here is for Jagr to make up ground on Mario on a career level. It's the same reason I can rank Lidstrom over Potvin overall but if you asked me who was better on a (as this thread title says) purely offensive level, it's Potvin 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.
It's the same with Jagr and Lemieux. Jagr makes up some ground careerwise on Mario with his longevity but on a purely offensive level (again, what the OP is asking), it's Mario and it's not close.

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