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02-18-2007, 03:35 PM
  #81
CM Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Overhyped and underproductive? Forget about Gagne for a minute, are Carter and Richards legit, sure-fire top-6 (if not top-3) prospects? Yes or no? Who can you name from the Rangers farm that even comes close?
I believe Dubinsky and Anisimov will be just as good, if not better. Callahan is absolutely tearing up the AHL right now, and has made people think twice about his ceiling.

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You can't use that arugment if Philly brought their young players up. If they were Rangers property, sure Carter and Richards would still be in the AHL. So too would Picard. However, they are not.

Come on, dude. You sure you are being objective here?
Remember, I'm not the one who proposed that argument. GarretJoseph said that the Forsberg trade helped the Flyers leap frog the Isles and Devils in terms of prospect depth, in which one prospect, and two draft picks which haven't been used yet can't do so.

The thing is, that was the argument. Which team has the best PROSPECT depth. Right now, those players are not prospects. Does Philly have us in young NHL talent? Yes. Do they have us in prospect talent? No, it's not even close.

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Taking the position that a team's farm system is poor becuase they have sent their top players to the big club is rathe short sighted. Let me know when the Rangers have EVER matched the amount of home-grown players that the Flyers have.
Again, let me start off by saying that was the argument at hand. What team in the atlantic has the best prospect depth. I'm not saying their farm system in general is poor, but it is right now because the talent has graduated.

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Gagne is barely 27 years old and is a legit top line forward. Richards and Carter are extremely young and are (at a minimum) top-6 forward prospects. Umberger scored 20 goals in his first full year and looks to be a 2nd line power-forward type. Eager is here. Downie is coming. Pitkanen is a legit future top-pairing defenseman. They just traded for Parent. They are getting a top-5 (if not top-2) lottery pick this year and can draft a goalie of the future with the extra pick they got from Nashville, not to mention they can move up, a la the Rangers, with the extra 3rd round pick they got. Even if Downie is an Avery clone (as you say), that is still pretty good. Plus they can go out and sign a goalie if they choose to. And this is what you call a "piss-poor" farm system?
Right now, the cupboard is somewhat bare down there. I never said in general, the Flyers have/had a piss-poor farm system. Gagne was a farmhand about 8 years ago... we might as well be mentioning Brendl and Lundmark on the Rangers perspective if we're going to talk about that time period.

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You really can't gloss over the fact that Pitkanen is already at the big level and Picard just got here.
I'm not, although Picard is not all too impressive, if you ask me. Reminds me too much of Tom Poti without the offensive skill.

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You mean like Marc Staal?
Yes, I believe they're similar players. Although most have said that Staal's potential is more of a top-pairing guy, and I believe he has better offensive skills.

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A 6-2, 210+ lbs 24 year-old that scored 20 goals in his first full year, and has the same amount as Prucha this year seems pretty good to me. If he is nothing special, what does that make Prucha?
Having the same amount of goals as Prucha is nothing to brag about, being that Prucha has played the majority of this season on the 3rd and 4th lines, because that moron Renney has mishandled him.

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I haven't heard anyone in Philly complain about his so-called attitude problems. As a matter of fact, the only place I hear of them are on this board. I certainly do not recall any Ranger player making such ocmments. His "bit entery-level deal" consisted of being $250,000 more than what Sather was offering. Considering how Jackass loves to overspend on #6 defenseman, how can you even begin to quibble over $250K with a kid who has 2nd line potential. All I know is that he would look pretty good as a Ranger right now.
$250,000 more for what? What did he prove at that point? Nothing. I don't think he was rejected because of money, but moreso because of principal. The players those jackasses were overpaying were established players who were past prime. They were somewhat worth what they were being offered. Then again, if this team ever had a good coach, and a clue for all of those years, it would have been half-dangerous.

I agree with you overspending on #6 defenders, and I'm not a fan of it either. But some kid who really didn't do anything all too special at the NCAA level comes in and demands this and that? Get real. That's an attitude problem. That's the same reason why Vancouver traded him to us. Because he wanted money that he didn't deserve.

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As a fan of a team that is devoid of legit top-6 forward talent, I do. And for $250k, so too should you be. How long has it been since a homegrown player skated on the top 2 lines for a full year here?
Not $250K in general, $250k more than what Sather offered. I don't think Slats is stupid enough to turn down a prospect because he wanted $250k in general. Umberger wanted an upwards of a million give or take, and Sather offered about $700K give or take.

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Let's hold off comparing Dubinsky to him, until he actually nets 20 goals in a year, shall we? And Anisimov is so far off the radar at this point, that he does not even factor into the equation. And that is the wrong point to argue, considering that for $250k, the Rangers could have had Umberger AND Dubinsky AND Anisimov.
Like I said, I believe those players will be better, and bring more to the table than Umberger will. I think what you see is what you get from him at this point. Besides, those players aren't asking for more money. Should we give them more money too, just because they're young players?

Should we just give every young player with the potential to be a top-6 forward more money because he wants it? No, because then it sets a precedent, that's why. This was a guy who didn't even play an ounce AHL hockey, yet alone NHL hockey, demanding a mill a year. Who or what made him a generational talent?

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