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03-19-2014, 08:41 AM
  #368
Viqsi
"grumpy grandma"@30s
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post
Does the scouting corps need to be revamped? We haven't found a finisher in how many years of trying? We have drafted one pure goal scorer. Management drafts based on what the scouts tell them. Maybe we need better scouting and maybe not always go with the safe pick.
That I could see as a possible useful change. Wouldn't guarantee results, but nothing can, really.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Absurd? How so?

That's how teams are built. They draft well, they get good players, they win.

I don't think we're "waiting on a savior" by hoping we get good players in the draft.
Absurd because it's oversimplifying. There's more to it than "oh, this guy was good and this guy was bad".

And when I say "waiting on a savior", I'm referring to this obsession with "if we can just get the right ubertalented guy it'll be All Okay". It's a process of finding the right mix of players. If all teambuilding took was finding guys with a "talent threshold" above X and throwing them in the same locker room, Team Russia probably would have won gold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Don't necessarily disagree with this.
Huh. I had the impression otherwise. Mea culpa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Since the lockout, we had 3 straight 1st round losses, then no playoffs, 1st round loss, 2nd round loss, 2nd round loss, no playoffs, no playoffs.

That's looks pretty stagnant to me. Actually, it looks like we're trending in the wrong direction.

So, worst case scenario - we hire a dud of a coach and miss the playoffs. Which is what we're doing now.
It looks to me like an upward trend followed by an abrupt downturn. Firing folks now is akin to selling an asset low. I wouldn't do it until we're sure that the downturn is here to stay (and I think there's good signs that it's not).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
I want to have a team that's not always waiting for the next guy to come and save us. But that's where we are. That's the team Poile/Trotz have built. Over and over again.

The alternative is to hope that our grinders all of a sudden find enough offensive game to make us a playoff threat. Which is jsut not going to happen.
Hon? There's a difference between what they've built and what you think they've built. Poile/Trotz have pretty much always been going for a "large amounts of forward depth" strategy, rather than a "the next guy will save us" strategy. That latter idea is solely and exclusively the fabrication of disgruntled fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Fail to see the comparison. Minnesota does have a deep run in the playoffs.

St. Lou looks like is has a budding dynasty. If they don't get to a WCF in the next several years - yes, a dismal failure. Colorado looks like it has a similarly bright future.
Minnesota has had a deep run in the playoffs... but not within 10 years. Colorado hasn't made it past the second round since 2002 - twelve years ago. St. Louis's last trip past the second round was in 2001. By the standard you describe, they are failures.

My point is that the standard you're discussing is fundamentally flawed and not at all objective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
I'm not adverse to rebuilding or lean years, as long as they lead to something better. I'm not convinced that there are better years ahead for the Preds.
I'm not 100% on it either, but I think the odds are much better than the "zero or near-zero" that many folks here appear to be assuming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
1 - we never were a serious contender for a championship. Our best team got bounced in the 2nd round in 5 games. Our 2nd best team lost in the 1st to a lower seeded team in 5 games.
Upsets happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
And we're in the basement for the second consecutive year.
Back-to-back playoffless years isn't a disaster or a horrible mess; it's a setback. A big one that should get people's attention, but a setback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
2. We do draft well. But not that well, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Last I checked Poile's drafting is actually well above average. The "problem", such as it is, is twofold:
1) he has a tendency to default towards the "safe pick" when in doubt, which generally does get you NHLers but doesn't always get you superstars (and which is arguably the correct way to handle it - see Doug MacLean for an example of when you go for those kind of "home runs" all the time)
2) while several of his "home run" attempts at the blueline and in goal have been successful beyond anybody's wildest dreams, his "home run" attempts at forward have generally been successful and useful but not common enough to put the team "over the top". (That's arguably due as much to good or bad fortune as it is to draft selection and development.)

To be a great GM, you need to be both skilled and lucky. Poile is skilled, and has been occasionally lucky (particularly with guys like Weber and Rinne), but not consistently so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
3. For every good trade (Forsberg), there's a bad trade (Witt, Gaustad). Poile has been ok. And the jury is still out on Forsberg/Jarnkrok.
That's still pretty consistent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
4. Lombardi? Stalberg/Cullen/Hendricks - well see how he can get out of this mess.

Very few of your standards actually pertain to what happens on the ice.
That's because what happens on the ice is 1) subject to many other variables, and 2) a major function of the coach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
And if you're so satisfied with Poile's drafting, free agent acquisitions, and, and trades - isn't that an indictment of Trotz's coaching for failing to do anything with them?
If they weren't consistently in the playoffs, it would be.


Last edited by AtlantaWhaler: 03-19-2014 at 09:15 AM. Reason: No need for the shots.
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