Thread: bobby clarke...
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02-15-2004, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
Well, Lefebvre, a 2nd, and a 3rd. The Primeau deal did cost more though, but it wouldn't have been done without Pelletier.
More like the Primeau deal wouldn't have been done without Brindy.

Pelletier was a part, but we all know who the key player headed the other way was.

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
I don't think it is 50-50. More like 75-25. Just take a look at how the team was assembled (draft picks and free agents not included):
Lets be more realistic.

Primeau - Loss. Even if you call Brindy and Primeau even, we added a 2nd and Pelletier.

Handzus - Win

Lapointe - Win

Amonte - Loss. We gave up a prospect, a 2nd and a 3rd for a salary dump. If we wanted him, we could have just signed him 6 months earlier.

Recchi - Even to loss. Recchi was a pending UFA coming of the worst season in his career. We gave up a decent player with potential (Zubrus) and a 2nd for an UFA rental. That is a high price for a player recovering from an injury.

Radivojevic - Even/Loss. We recouped our damages from the Comrie deal, but overpaid for Comrie in the first place.

LeClair - Win

Kapanen - Win

Brashear - Loss. Brashear was a pending UFA on the outs with his current team. Hlavac went on to bomb, but at the time he was considered a key part of the Lindros deal. We added a 3rd to their 5th.

Desjardins - Win

Ragnarsson - Loss. Ragnarsson was a pending UFA. We gave up a McGillis, younger and under contract to get him.

Markov - TBD. Markov has had problems with 2 teams now, winner will be decided by how Williams turns out. IMO, Williams was a cornerstone of this team and a future captain. That is a high price to pay.

Burke - See above.

Esche - Win

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
If they are so meaningless, why complain about them? I don't these meaningless trades make him a bad GM.
Because they both disrupt chemistry and deplete our assets. Chouinard is a perfect example. We had no need for another forward when we acquired him. He toiled away on the 4th line or as a healthy scratch. We effectively swapped a 2nd for a 5th. That is the very definition of a wasted asset.

There are countless examples of stupid asset management.

Back in the last expansion draft, Clarke traded a pick to Chicago for Mark Jannsens in order to expose him in the draft instead of exposing his Son-In-Law Peter White.

We gave up a 1st for Paul Coffey and then traded him for a 5th a season and a half later.

We gave up a 2nd for Dopita only a year after the Panthers acquired him for a 6th.

We gave up a defintive team player in Manderville to add scum-of-the-earth Tibbetts.

Look up 'bad asset management' and you will read: wasting valued assets in meaningless trades.

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
Clarke is not the equivalent of a Wall Street CEO. There, he would have been canned because maybe the stock went down a there was a lack a respect for the company. Does it really make a difference here?
Unfortunately, you are right. When company's fail to meet expectations year after year, they replace the management.

We advanced out of the 1st round twice in 7 seasons. That is terrible for a 'Contender'. That is the record of an also-ran. That is failing to meet expectations. That Clarke was not held accountable is the biggest shortcoming of the organization and precisely why I believe we won't win a Cup any time soon.

People DID get fired as a result of our failing to meet expectations: Barber, Nielson, Murray, Cashman, Lindros, Cechmanek, Burke, Hextall, Snow, Beezer.

Every year we have a new scape goat and more blood is shed. 20 years as a GM, zero Cups. See a trend?

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
Every player that comes to this team wants to stay save a few misfits. Do we have problems signing free agents?
How many come here and cash in for big bucks? How many have taken less money to play here than they would have elsewhere?

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
How many players leave disgruntled?
Niinimaa, Cechmanek, Barber, Lindros, Nielson, Burke.

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
Would you take any of those lines over the ones we have now?
Absolutely. The LOD was the most dominant line in the league. The Minnesota line was a fanatastic 3rd line. The cost of re-arranging the deck chairs was significantly more than the benefit to the team. We spent $10 to get $3 better.

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
Chouinard either turns out the way he is playing now or turns into a goal scorer. The chance of getting a player like that is worth the gambit of moving down 3 rounds in the draft.
Chouinard had done nothing worth noting in his career. He was on the fast-track to no where. That nobody offered up more than a 5th less than a year later proves the point.

He WASN'T worth moving down FIVE rounds for. He was a longshot that we grossly overpaid for.

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
As for Comrie, Clarke upgraded assets he was bound to trade later, and positioned himself for a better move.
Huh? Woywitka was one of our best prospects and the 1st is the only pick Clarke knows how to use. Comrie was a malcontent hold-out that we overpaid for.

Luckily, Clarke was able to get a fair return on him, but it doesn't erase the initial trade. Clarke traded for a misfit malcontent.

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
I don't know about you, but I'd rather have this team than the 97 one. In fact, I'd take this team over any teams since perhaps the 80s. If Clarke didn't make the moves he did, we would be nowhere near as good as we are now.
Good for you. I don't.

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
To say Clarke isn't consistent is ridiculous. He consistently puts out a contending team.
He also consistently puts a team that gets embarrassed at the end of the year too, what is your point?

Think of it this way. Write down a list of all our peers. Teams that we are on an even playing field with (read: have $$$). Colorado, New York Rangers, Boston, Detroit. Look over that list and you will see that absolutely every one of them has either won a Cup or fired their GM since Clarke took over. What does that tell you?

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
I wouldn't mind seeing a new guy come in with a different approach, but I have to give credit where I think it is due.
Agreed. With that should come accountability. Clarke is always there to get the pats on the back, but when heads start to roll he is holding the ax and pointing fingers. We have blamed coaches, goalies and Lindros. All are gone, the result is the same. We have had only 2 constants: Clarke and a Cupless spring.

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
You can be critical of him, but take a look at the other GMs in this league. How many are better than Clarke? I think he is in the top 10 at least.
I think he is middle of the pack at best. In his 20+ years on the job, he has never EVER built a winner. Time for change. I don't know who is better, but I am willing to take a look. Worst case scenario: we don't win a Cup. How is that any worse than what Clarke has done?

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
Who would you rather have now? Boucher and Cechmanek, or Burke and Esche? I don't have to mention Ouellet, although Niittymaki is healing some wounds.
How about CuJo and a Cup in 1998? Look at all the assets spent and wasted on half-ass solutions. Why not bite the bullet and go for a top of the line solutuon for a change?

Because Clarke honestly believes that goaltending isn't a key position. No joke.

Originally Posted by jrachlinexperience
Our pipeline now includes Gagne, Radivojevic, Pitkanen, Niittymaki, Carter, Richards Drozdetsky. Not bad.
You are really missing the point. Whup-de-doo who we have now. Give Clarke another 12 months and he will deal 90% of them away. Take a long look at our roster.

How many vet players have we drafted and developed? Not talking about a guys under 25, established vets.


Therien. That is it.

That is why our pipeline is totally irrelevent. The pipeline only starts here, it ends on other teams.

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