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07-30-2014, 01:28 AM
  #31
Ishdul
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Pronger didn't even lead defensemen in scoring that season, Lidstrom did by 11 Pts and it's not like Pronger played all 82 games either now is it?
Going by who lead defensemen in scoring is missing a lot of the point with Pronger that year. He won the Norris in a walk and that was against one of the best years Lidstrom ever had (and I think Lidstrom should have been a Hart candidate himself) He played 79, and the last 2 games he missed were after the Blues had clinched the President's Trophy. Anyways, I would pretty handily have taken 79 games of Pronger over 63 of Jagr that season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Pronger was +52 on a stacked team (the team overall was + 64) while Jagr was + 25 in 16 less games on a team that was +10.
I don't know why people use +/- in the times where it helps their argument, but using it against Pronger in 2000 makes no sense at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Unless you are making things up, there is no way you can argue that people were reluctant to vote for a defenseman because the NHL story down the stretch was how no defenseman had won the Hart since Orr and they were just about ready to do so and Pronger happened to benefit from Jagr's injury.
There are similar such media campaigns for every player who factors into the Hart voting every year (Jagr and Bure got them too) and I don't think Pronger's was especially effective, winning by a single point even in a year in which the best forward missed a large chunk of the season and still won the Art Ross, nobody topped 100 points for the first time in a long long time and none of the goalies were meaningful candidates. He was still left out of the top 3 on many ballots in a year without a good depth in candidates. They didn't like voting for defenseman before and they didn't like voting for defensemen after, and it took a perfect storm of events to get them to vote for one during.

Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
If Jagr had played an extra 2 games and scored 100 Pts, he would have won the award, as it is he only lost by 1 point.
Maybe, but that just illustrates the flaws in the voting. And anyways, the flipside to that is if he played one less game and were tied with Bure with 94 points but with far less goals he would likely have been solidly in 3rd place.


Last edited by Ishdul: 07-30-2014 at 11:24 PM.
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