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Old
07-24-2007, 04:12 PM
  #26
DarthSather99
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Off course you can. However, the point on Jessiman, as it always has been, was that the pick was a reach at 12 and there were more sure things on the board at that time. Players like Daigle and Lawton, you cannot fault management for taking.
"Reach" ...how would you define that....by scouting service rankings? or do you work with an NHL team?

Everyone talks about Getzlef but if any team really thought he was going to be as good as he is...why did he last so long?

I can be an expert at everything too after the fact. Heck I can even get lucky some times and pick a player that ends up being greater than his draft position. Does that make me an expert? no...

The Rangers took a home run swing, at a player that would dominate or could completely miss. That was known. You live with the consequences. With the exception of two players picked after Jessiman I don't really see any great players, nothing more than we already have now with this organization albeit a bit younger.

by the way ....there are no "sure" things in any draft.


Last edited by DarthSather99: 07-24-2007 at 05:31 PM. Reason: add content
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07-24-2007, 05:29 PM
  #27
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Hugh was not nearly as much of a reach as people here would like to believe. The talent in the 1st round in 2003 was very high, and very level, and that was why it was considered such a deep draft. Guys that went after ten could have dropped to the end of the 1st and vice versa.

Anyway, Redline had Hugh at 10, CSS much lower, but in both he was ranked above guys like Carter, Seabrook, and Richards; players I've heard people on this board lament we didn't draft.

The biggest reasons I've always felt this board hated taking Hugh were:

1) no ones is ever comfortable taking a player that comes out of nowhere, especially a collegiate who plays in mediocre league

and

2) Edge, one of the more reputable and knowledgeable posters on this board since the beginning, didn't like Jessiman as a player (or at least thought there were better options), and a lot of people, especially those who don't get to watch prospects much, rely a lot on his opinion. Unfortunately for the Rangers, and us, Edge was dead on.

Not getting a player in 2003 hurt, but it still ranks far behind the futility of the late 90's drafting in terms of affecting the team.

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07-24-2007, 06:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
It has nothing to do with his skating and everything to do with his hockey sense. He skates well for a large player, but he just doesn't "see" the ice well enough. He's got good physical skills (not just talking about his size), but he just doesn't know how to use them.

Maybe he puts it together some day. It wouldn't surprise me to see him in the NHL at some point playing on a bottom line at least. Someone will give him a shot if the Rangers don't.
C'mon....don't make it hard for me.....i'm going to start thinking about what we could've done with this pick again.

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07-24-2007, 06:37 PM
  #29
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We should make a new board rule. You mention the name Jessiman, and you get a warning. A second mentioning should result in a 6 month ban - followed by a lifetime. That's the one pick that will irk me for years. Even hearing the name Getzlaf or Parise hurts!
I totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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07-24-2007, 07:13 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
"Reach" ...how would you define that....by scouting service rankings? or do you work with an NHL team?
Do I work with an NHL team? Off course, I do. Doesn't everyone here?
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Everyone talks about Getzlef but if any team really thought he was going to be as good as he is...why did he last so long?
That's hardly the point. The point is that he was a much safer pick than Jessiman. As was Parise. As was Seabrook. As was Carter. As was Richards. As was Boyle. No need to go on.
Quote:
I can be an expert at everything too after the fact. Heck I can even get lucky some times and pick a player that ends up being greater than his draft position. Does that make me an expert? no...
What makes an "expert"? I am betting that there are more people on this board who know much more than the so-called experts on ESPN. There are some people here who watch more prospects than Redline or THN. We are not experts. However, even so, most of us knew that there were many more choices than Jessiman.
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The Rangers took a home run swing, at a player that would dominate or could completely miss. That was known. You live with the consequences.
Again, that is not the point.
Quote:
With the exception of two players picked after Jessiman I don't really see any great players, nothing more than we already have now with this organization albeit a bit younger.
Dustin Brown, Bernier, Seabrook, Parise, Belle, Stuart, Boyle, Getzlaf, Richards

Looks to me like lots of people that would have looked good in a Rangers uniform.
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by the way ....there are no "sure" things in any draft.
No, but some choices are safer than others.

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07-24-2007, 08:04 PM
  #31
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The Huge Speciman is going to make all you guys eat crow. He'll be a Ranger Next Year (not this coming year).

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07-24-2007, 08:13 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
A first round pick? Sure, but most publications and mocks had him going at the tail-end of the first round, not the first-half.
Eh, I mainly remember people saying he was slotted to go around 20.

Quote:
Lev, don't take this as an "I told you so", but if you recall, leading up to the draft, once the rumors started to surface, most around here were screaming against picking him at 12. Not when there were so many more sure-fire things (if such exist in any draft, even one as deep as that one) available as well. Most so-called "experts" were scratching their heads. Most around here, were complaining pretty loudly as well.
I think I was pretty busy leading up to that draft and didn't pay a lot of attention to it until afterwards. Yes, it was a stretch, I'll never argue against that. I was just kind of saying that, for what it's worth, at least it wasn't like the Rangers went completely off the board and draft some guy who was expected to go deep in the 2nd round, and then had that guy flop. I think that'd deserve even more criticism.

It doesn't make it a better pick, but at least the Rangers weren't completely and totally off base in picking him in the first around. Just moderately off base and crazy.

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07-24-2007, 08:46 PM
  #33
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TB

The point is that after a pick is made you live with you good or bad. It's easy to go back and nit pick and say we could have had this guy and that guy.....it's irrelevant because it's not going to happen.

In reference to your "experts" comment about ESPN, Redline, THN and that many here (HF) probably see these guys more. I will not argue your example but I sincerely doubt that anyone here sees these players as much as NHL scouts, the one's that actually influence these picks.

Those are the "experts" I was referring to ..

Quote:
Dustin Brown, Bernier, Seabrook, Parise, Belle, Stuart, Boyle, Getzlaf, Richards

Looks to me like lots of people that would have looked good in a Rangers uniform.
Besides Parise and Getzlaf none of these players have stood out. Richards has been average...Seabrook is an ok player but we have tons of D prospects. Boyle has yet to hit the NHL. Belle is nothing special, 9 total games in the NHL. Brown and Bernier are nothing special, certainly not better than Prucha or what Dawes can become when given the ice time. Stuart was still bouncing between the NHL and AHL last year. Who here besides Parise and Getzlef is the superstar we missed out on ???

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07-25-2007, 03:57 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
The Huge Speciman is going to make all you guys eat crow. He'll be a Ranger Next Year (not this coming year).
The huge specimen definitely has still got a window of opportunity but it is getting smaller by the month....

If he actually sticks with the Pack this year and manages 20 goals which is quite reasonable, he'll have the confidence to do it again one more year in the Pack and then maybe be ready to fight for a Rangers spot. What Jessiman needs to do more than anything is show some consistency... he has talent and size.

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07-25-2007, 06:01 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
The Huge Speciman is going to make all you guys eat crow. He'll be a Ranger Next Year (not this coming year).
He has a better chance of playing for the Texas Rangers.

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07-25-2007, 06:03 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
The huge specimen definitely has still got a window of opportunity but it is getting smaller by the month....

If he actually sticks with the Pack this year and manages 20 goals which is quite reasonable, he'll have the confidence to do it again one more year in the Pack and then maybe be ready to fight for a Rangers spot. What Jessiman needs to do more than anything is show some consistency... he has talent and size.
So, if he scores 20 goals in the AHL it is supposed to mean something?

He will be a life-time AHL'er at best and may occassionally get some spot duty as a 4th-liner/healthy scratch.

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07-25-2007, 06:19 AM
  #37
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Well - perhaps I shouldn't have posted about this article again. Didn't realize people were so sore about this pick and felt Hugh was done. I thought he lost a year of development with an ankle injury and was getting his stride back.

Ranger prospect development can't rely on any one pick. If we feel one pick has severely set us back in our prospect pool, then our prospect pool is not as deep as we think.

Looking forward to a great season guys!

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07-25-2007, 06:58 AM
  #38
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Everyone knew going in it was a high risk high reward scenario when he was drafted. That said...I think there is still time for him to make it. The one thing this team COULD use is a POWER forward. A guy who crashes that net and goes for those rebounds and doesn't weigh a buck fifty soaking wet, having the capability to be a pillar in front! Jessiman may still be that guy...and his skating isn't the issue its made out to be here. He needs to develop a consistent scoring touch, and take ADVANTAGE of that tremendous size of his. If he just does that second part, and becomes a physical presence on ice all the time, he'll have an NHL career! As to Parise...don't get me wrong he's a good player, but his upside wasn't what the potential upside of Jessiman's was according to this organization, at the time the pick was made. They took a calculated risk, and to date it hasn't looked good.

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07-25-2007, 07:25 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
So, if he scores 20 goals in the AHL it is supposed to mean something?

He will be a life-time AHL'er at best and may occassionally get some spot duty as a 4th-liner/healthy scratch.
Yes it does mean something because it will likely mean he is healthy (an issue in Dartmouth) and will have shown some consistency to pot 20 goals. If he is healthy and consistent he has the talent and size to succeed. So yes it does mean something.

Also, with a few of the older gents of the Rangers likely to be gone in the next 2-3 years at the latest, if Huge can put up some numbers and performances in the next season or 2 he still has a chance to make it. That chance is small but it still exists.

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07-25-2007, 07:40 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
Who here besides Parise and Getzlef is the superstar we missed out on ???
I also seem to remember that Getzlaf had some questions about his upside and possibly work ethic. In retrospect, those turned out to be baseless, but at the time he was just another draft choice with question marks. It's not like he was a known, surefire NHL star and the Rangers passed.

Though I feel the more I comment on this, the more people take what I'm saying as a defense of the Jessiman pick and an attempt to justify it. God no, I wish the Rangers would have picked someone else, but I guess I'm just commenting for the sake of commenting.

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07-25-2007, 08:43 AM
  #41
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Besides Parise and Getzlaf none of these players have stood out. Richards has been average...Seabrook is an ok player but we have tons of D prospects. Boyle has yet to hit the NHL. Belle is nothing special, 9 total games in the NHL. Brown and Bernier are nothing special, certainly not better than Prucha or what Dawes can become when given the ice time. Stuart was still bouncing between the NHL and AHL last year. Who here besides Parise and Getzlef is the superstar we missed out on ???
The point is not about missing out on a superstar, but rather on a player who would have made a difference more than Jessiman. Sure we have a good amount of defensive prospects, but how may of them have contributed more than Seabrook? Seabrook looks like a definitive top-4 defenseman. How many of our prospects have taken the same step forward as him? You hope that they do, but do not really know for sure.

Bernier is a young 235 lbs. budding power forward who scored 14 goals and 27 points in 39 games in his rookie year and then added 15 goals and 31 points in 62 games in his sophmore season. Certainly a top-6 future power forward.

Dustin Brown scored 14 goals in his first year and 17 goals and 46 points in his sophmore campaign. Again, what more are you looking for in a player playing his first two years in the league?

Richards was injured much of the year and really came on in the 2nd half.

All of these players have shown more than Jessiman, and currently, most have shown much more than any forward prospect that the Rangers have. The point is not that they are superstars. After all, there are not too many of those in the 2nd year. There are not too many Crosbys, Malkins & Ovechkins in the world. The point is that they are on their way to being legit NHL players and are currently helping their NHL team.

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07-25-2007, 09:16 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
Besides Parise and Getzlaf none of these players have stood out. Richards has been average...Seabrook is an ok player but we have tons of D prospects. Boyle has yet to hit the NHL. Belle is nothing special, 9 total games in the NHL. Brown and Bernier are nothing special, certainly not better than Prucha or what Dawes can become when given the ice time. Stuart was still bouncing between the NHL and AHL last year. Who here besides Parise and Getzlef is the superstar we missed out on ???
That's really not the point, Darth. Where the team was and with the high level of talent in that draft, the Rangers had to get a guy they knew would play in the NHL even if that player's ceiling was lower than Hugh's. They really weren't in the position for a boom or bust pick. And that is exactly what Hugh is/was.

You are looking back at the pick with the benefit of hindsite. When the Rangers picked Jessiman, they didn't have a ton of D prospects. And a guy like Seabrooke would look better out there than Pock or Strudwick.

And it's not a question of Brown or Bernier being better than Prucha (who, again, was a serious unknown then). The hope would be not to replace Prucha with Brown or Bernier but rather have Prucha and a guy like Brown or Bernier.

Hugh was a reach, high-risk pick then. He had one good season playing in a second level NCAA league. The Rangers needed to get a guy who they were sure would play in the NHL. They didn't get that. Even worse is Hugh doesn't seem to be developing, progressing or getting better in each passing season.

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07-25-2007, 09:19 AM
  #43
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The fact is the Jessiman draft pick DID NOT bite the Rangers in the ass.....

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07-25-2007, 09:25 AM
  #44
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The fact is the Jessiman draft pick DID NOT bite the Rangers in the ass.....
Yeah but does have an effect. Let's assume they picked Parise. They would not have needed to go out and get both Drury and Gomez. They could have then used that money to get a top defenseman or lockup Lundqvist long-term this summer.

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07-25-2007, 10:45 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
The Huge Speciman is going to make all you guys eat crow. He'll be a Ranger Next Year (not this coming year).
Not to be rude, but are you ever correct about these things? Or do you just throw them out there for the heck of it?

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07-25-2007, 10:49 AM
  #46
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That's really not the point, Darth. Where the team was and with the high level of talent in that draft, the Rangers had to get a guy they knew would play in the NHL — even if that player's ceiling was lower than Hugh's. They really weren't in the position for a boom or bust pick. And that is exactly what Hugh is/was.

You are looking back at the pick with the benefit of hindsite. When the Rangers picked Jessiman, they didn't have a ton of D prospects. And a guy like Seabrooke would look better out there than Pock or Strudwick.

And it's not a question of Brown or Bernier being better than Prucha (who, again, was a serious unknown then). The hope would be not to replace Prucha with Brown or Bernier but rather have Prucha and a guy like Brown or Bernier.

Hugh was a reach, high-risk pick then. He had one good season playing in a second level NCAA league. The Rangers needed to get a guy who they were sure would play in the NHL. They didn't get that. Even worse is Hugh doesn't seem to be developing, progressing or getting better in each passing season.
aren't you using hindsight? Seabrook was NOT rated as a top 12 in that draft. Neither were many of the players listed by TB. All that/this is irrelevant because as I've said, it can't be changed. Live with the pick and move on.

There were many questions with every one of those players mentioned and now with the benefit of hindsight it is being played off that it was crystal clear who would succeed and who would not. That is not the case in ANY draft.

The Coyotoes took a gamble MUCH(probably more) like the Jessiman pick when they took Blake Wheeler a few years ago. Wheeler is looking like he might be a good player. Teams take risks with these players because they can dominate. This year Colton Gillies was taken much higher because of his potential to dominate. There's at least one every year.

Teams take the player that they feel will be the best player 5-10 years from then.

I've watched all kinds of drafts for many years now and have seen "experts" and fans say certain picks were ridiculous only for them to be wrong in the long run.

Many fans here on these boards were upset at us taking Staal and Sanguinetti because they wanted a forward. Most would probably choose to deny that now. I admittedly was one.

The Rangers have had HUGE success in picking players recently, you can start with Jessiman's year. If they miss on the Jessiman pick I still believe they will have an outstanding success rate the last 5 years. I still believe Jessiman will make the NHL but if he doesn't I'm not going to wine and cry about it. They have MORE than made up for one slip up.

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07-25-2007, 10:50 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
The Huge Speciman is going to make all you guys eat crow. He'll be a Ranger Next Year (not this coming year).

He's due to make over 1M this coming season. Unless he shows remarkable improvement, he's not going to get a contract for the season after let alone be on the Rangers.

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07-26-2007, 04:15 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
He's due to make over 1M this coming season. Unless he shows remarkable improvement, he's not going to get a contract for the season after let alone be on the Rangers.
Jessiman must know that he hasnt made progress so far as expected. He must be willing to take a smaller contract to sign with an NHL club. No club will give him 1million + so if he wants the chance to make it he will have to sign for less. Why couldnt he sign for less in NY?

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07-26-2007, 05:58 AM
  #49
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He's due to make over 1M this coming season. Unless he shows remarkable improvement, he's not going to get a contract for the season after let alone be on the Rangers.
I don't think the money is a big thing on the Rangers, as long as it doesn't count against the cap. Actually the Rangers would probably rather have him making $1M in the AHL rather than the NHL where it would count against the cap.

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07-26-2007, 08:16 AM
  #50
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Actually the Rangers would probably rather have him making $1M in the AHL rather than the NHL where it would count against the cap.
I think if that's their mindset, it kind of shows you what the Rangers think about Hugh.

I would think they would want him to be an NHL player by then. And you don't pay an average to below average AHL player 1M.

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