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NYI-PIT proposal

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Old
07-27-2007, 04:36 PM
  #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Great argument. I'll summarize:

Hunter is worth a second rounder

Therefore, Hunter is worth a second rounder.

Penguins traded for Gary Roberts for Noah Welch, a 2nd rounder '01. Welch is an upper-echelon 2nd rounder, or so it seems to me. Hunter brings what Gary Roberts currently brings *except* he'll do it for more minutes per game, and for several more seasons. Hence he's worth more than Gary Roberts, and worth more than an upper-echelon 2nd rounder.

To "break it down": If Hunter were offered around for second rounders, GM's would line up like tech-nerds for I-Phones.

It's not a perfect argument. But it's not hyperbole to say that, compared to yours, it's at least top-5.

Cheers,

Dan-o
You're right ...... GM's would offer more for him ..... just not PITTSBURGH"S GM.

MOVE ON PLEASE!

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07-27-2007, 04:40 PM
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baton Rouge Pen View Post
You're right ...... GM's would offer more for him ..... just not PITTSBURGH"S GM.

MOVE ON PLEASE!
If you want people to move on, it would help to stop making ridiculous claims.

If Pitt wouldn't give more for Hunter, they're an idiot. Not saying they should be willing to part with Letang or anything, but Hunter would definitely be more useful to them than a 2nd rounder. Heck, he scored more goals in the playoffs last year than all of your wingers combined (same number of games, too) and he wasn't playing with an elite talent like Crosby either.

This is why people keep posting about this. The level of exaggeration going on in here to make a point just blows things up and won't let this thread die.


Last edited by Seph: 07-27-2007 at 04:49 PM.
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Old
07-27-2007, 07:11 PM
  #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
Heck, he scored more goals in the playoffs last year than all of your wingers combined
He has the exact same numbers as Jordan Staal, who plays wing aside from when Therrien has some crazy idea to turn Malkin into a winger or put Staal on the checking line. We lose two straight and then Therrien goes back to what works.

Also consider that Buffalo wasn't anything like Ottawa.


That said, yes, Trent Hunter is definitely worth a 2nd rounder. The chances of getting a better player with a second rounder are single digits percentile. I don't know where he'd play though, because we're already busy up front. I suppose it would be useful having him in case Sykora pulls an Ekman.

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Old
07-27-2007, 07:46 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brode View Post
He has the exact same numbers as Jordan Staal, who plays wing aside from when Therrien has some crazy idea to turn Malkin into a winger or put Staal on the checking line. We lose two straight and then Therrien goes back to what works.

Also consider that Buffalo wasn't anything like Ottawa.


That said, yes, Trent Hunter is definitely worth a 2nd rounder. The chances of getting a better player with a second rounder are single digits percentile. I don't know where he'd play though, because we're already busy up front. I suppose it would be useful having him in case Sykora pulls an Ekman.
Crud, I only caught a couple of Pitt's games, so those must've been the ones I watched, as I thought Staal played center and Malkin played wing. The point remains though that Hunter would've been tied as your top goal scorer in the playoffs and had more goals than all forwards not named Staal or Crosby combined. And while I will allow that Ottawa was better defensively than Buffalo, I would also point out that Hunter did not receive nearly the offensive support as Pittsburgh's wingers.

But anyway, thank you for allowing that Hunter is worth more than a 2nd, even to Pittsburgh. Now, with any luck, this thread can die already.


Last edited by Seph: 07-27-2007 at 07:54 PM.
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Old
07-27-2007, 07:52 PM
  #330
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Noah Welch was a can't miss rock solid anchor superstar hero defender prospect at one point too. The Pens fans do tend to overestimate their prospects a wee bit more than other fanbases do, in part to the tremendous success their string of top 5 picks has had.

The outrage at the initial proposal from Pens fans was a bit too strong. Letang is good and will likely be good, but right now he has 2 points in the NHL. Hunter would be a great 2nd/3rd line option for the Pens, who have a strong set of 6 plus Roberts, but not quite the forward or defensive depth of many serious contenders. Campoli would provide good bottom pairing play now while Letang is still somewhat of an unknown.

I wouldn't do it if I was Shero but the moans and groans about it are way too much.

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07-27-2007, 08:23 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
But anyway, thank you for allowing that Hunter is worth more than a 2nd, even to Pittsburgh. Now, with any luck, this thread can die already.
He's worth more than a 2nd rounder, but that doesn't mean he's worth a 1st rounder. Established veterans get traded for 1st rounders. The tiers are like

Franchise players
Quality players
1st round pick/top prospect
Role players
2nd-3rd round pick/middling prospect
Marginal players
Minor league players/Krys Kolanos

Quote:
Hunter would be a great 2nd/3rd line option for the Pens, who have a strong set of 6 plus Roberts, but not quite the forward or defensive depth of many serious contenders
I don't know how you reach that conclusion in regards to the forward depth. The Penguins have two checking lines by design, not by poor depth. If we have Malone/Roberts-Talbot-Armstrong on the third line, with Ruutu-Christensen-Laracque on the fourth, I don't know how many teams are much better. The Ducks got May on their fourth line, I don't think he's too much different from having Ruutu there.

Now defensive depth. Defensive anything. Yeah. We're below the cream.

Quote:
Noah Welch was a can't miss rock solid anchor superstar hero defender prospect at one point too.
And he probably will end up as a two-way 4-5, maybe a 6 if he doesn't put it all back together. Welch is tough to judge, because he was actually better in 05-06 with a crappy Pens team than when we tried to plug him into a better 06-07 edition.


Last edited by Jill Sandwich: 07-27-2007 at 08:33 PM.
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Old
07-27-2007, 08:26 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pens1566 View Post
A big no from the pens. Ridiculous.
I can't see how this deal is ridiculous, especially from a Pens perspective.

Letang has proven nothing. Hunter is a second line winger, and Campoli is a slightly worse prospect than Letang. If the Isles want to give up assets to take a shot in the dark on Letang, why is that ridiculous?

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Old
07-27-2007, 08:37 PM
  #333
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If they honestly think it's a shot in the dark, then isn't it ridiculous to give up such great assets as a second line winger and a prospect who is apparently basically as good as Letang? If it's all the same, we'll just enjoy the 'shot in the dark' ourselves.

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Old
07-27-2007, 09:01 PM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I don't like doing inter-division proposals too often, but I figured I'd give this one a try anyway.

to PIT: Trent Hunter W, Chris Campoli D

to NYI: Kris Letang D, 2nd Round Pick

Hunter adds some nice size and grit to a team built around speed and skill. Could be a perfect fit on a line of Staal and a guy like Christiensen. Campoli is a gritty young defenseman who is on the cheap and can log bottom pairing minutes. Has top-4 potential and can man the point on the 2nd PP unit.

Isles need to stock up on defensive help, and adding Letang would go a long way. The best option they have to be successful, IMO, is build around DiPietro, and defense should be top priorety. Letang and Gervais would make for a nice young combo that should take over top minutes in the near future.
I'll tell you why this is not a good deal for the Penguins.

1. The Penguins don't need Trent Hunter because they already have plenty of grit, plus they are a bit overloaded in forwards and don't need to add another.
2. Kris Letang is younger and cheaper than Campoli, and arguably has more potential. He is the highest prized prospect, a right handed shot and a great puck mover (so he has 2 things the Pens sorely lacked last year.) His contract expires at the same time as Campoli's, but at the end of Campoli's, Campoli will be a UFA and Letang will be an RFA, so if he walks, the Penguins at least get some compensation.
3. the 2008 draft is supposed to be very deep, and the Pens are going to need their draft picks to pick up young players whose cheap entry level contracts will allow them to keep their core together.

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Old
07-27-2007, 09:03 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guillemin View Post
I can't see how this deal is ridiculous, especially from a Pens perspective.

Letang has proven nothing. Hunter is a second line winger, and Campoli is a slightly worse prospect than Letang. If the Isles want to give up assets to take a shot in the dark on Letang, why is that ridiculous?
It may be a shot in the dark for the Islanders, but the Penguins highly value Letang. A lot more than they valued Welch. He could be a valuable asset a few years down the road.

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Old
07-28-2007, 11:52 AM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guillemin View Post
I can't see how this deal is ridiculous, especially from a Pens perspective.

Letang has proven nothing. Hunter is a second line winger, and Campoli is a slightly worse prospect than Letang. If the Isles want to give up assets to take a shot in the dark on Letang, why is that ridiculous?
Way to make a late entrance ......

If you'd read more than the first page, you'll see why the proposal is ridiculous from the pens perspective. We need d-men and SCORING wingers. We're all stocked up on gritty, 15-20 something goal a year wings. And Campoli is not just a "slightly worse prospect than Letang". So getting another player that we have several of already and downgrading on d and giving up a 2nd pick doesn't make any sense for our team.

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Old
07-28-2007, 03:31 PM
  #337
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What gets lost with these tedious outraged posts from Pens fans is that the Isles wouldn't deal Hunter either. Hunter's situation is going to go down one of two ways: 1) He signs a longterm contract in the next week and serves as one of the Islanders "building block" players for the next few years, 2) He takes an arbitration award, and then is moved at a nice price as a deadline UFA rental.

I also think that the same Pens fans who are crying fowl over how much their beloved prospects are being underrated, are (in turn) grossly underrating Hunter. Hunter would be a huge help to Pitt and would be a vast improvement over your third (and maybe second line wingers). I am quite positive Shero would love to have him if a reasonable deal was out there.

I'm also reasonably certain that Shero would move prospects for quick upgrades, if he saw the deal as being prudent (re: Welch). That isnt' saying Letang would be available, but I don't think Shero is going to hoard youth to the same extent that some of you suggest.

Final point, if I might quote PSV above "die thread die!"

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Old
07-28-2007, 03:57 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brode View Post
He's worth more than a 2nd rounder, but that doesn't mean he's worth a 1st rounder. Established veterans get traded for 1st rounders. The tiers are like

Franchise players
Quality players
1st round pick/top prospect
Role players
2nd-3rd round pick/middling prospect
Marginal players
Minor league players/Krys Kolanos
Hunter IS a quality player. That's what I've been trying to say for a while now and really the only point I've tried to make in this whole thread.

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07-28-2007, 07:51 PM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
What gets lost with these tedious outraged posts from Pens fans is that the Isles wouldn't deal Hunter either. Hunter's situation is going to go down one of two ways: 1) He signs a longterm contract in the next week and serves as one of the Islanders "building block" players for the next few years, 2) He takes an arbitration award, and then is moved at a nice price as a deadline UFA rental.

I also think that the same Pens fans who are crying fowl over how much their beloved prospects are being underrated, are (in turn) grossly underrating Hunter. Hunter would be a huge help to Pitt and would be a vast improvement over your third (and maybe second line wingers). I am quite positive Shero would love to have him if a reasonable deal was out there.

I'm also reasonably certain that Shero would move prospects for quick upgrades, if he saw the deal as being prudent (re: Welch). That isnt' saying Letang would be available, but I don't think Shero is going to hoard youth to the same extent that some of you suggest.

Final point, if I might quote PSV above "die thread die!"
good post, as i said before, i'd love to have hunter. i just dont want to trade a key part of the defense's future for him

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Old
07-28-2007, 08:19 PM
  #340
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<Cue Energizer Bunny>

Going...going...going.

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Old
07-28-2007, 09:11 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure Slaughter Value View Post
<Cue Energizer Bunny>

Going...going...going.
I'm pretty honored that this thread is still going. I should make sh!tty proposals more often.

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07-28-2007, 09:32 PM
  #342
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i think the problem is that the pens don't need a bottom pairing d like campoli, we need a stud, while i do agre hunter would be useful, and i would welcome him on the pens, i wouldn't be willing to part with anything like letang, so i think my argument is fair.

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07-28-2007, 09:33 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I'm pretty honored that this thread is still going. I should make sh!tty proposals more often.


While your original proposal doesn't make enough sense from a "needs" standpoint, IMO, don't sell yourself short. It was not "sh!tty." Much of what followed in the way of the predictable fanboy "my player is great, your's is not worth an abstract future draft pick (a.k.a. "guaranteed gold" in the silly minds of few here) was.

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Old
07-28-2007, 09:55 PM
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure Slaughter Value View Post
<Cue Energizer Bunny>

Going...going...going.

PSV, at the risk of bumping this thread up, I just have to observe that you rock!


LOL.

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Old
07-29-2007, 01:44 AM
  #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post


While your original proposal doesn't make enough sense from a "needs" standpoint, IMO, don't sell yourself short. It was not "sh!tty." Much of what followed in the way of the predictable fanboy "my player is great, your's is not worth an abstract future draft pick (a.k.a. "guaranteed gold" in the silly minds of few here) was.
You didn't hear, the highly anticipated debut of First R. Pick will go down next season. They say "Firsty" has the goods. I'd say he's guaranteed gold.

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Old
07-29-2007, 09:10 AM
  #346
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Quote:
Hunter IS a quality player.
No, in my example, Brendan Shannahan or Sergei Gonchar are quality players, Trent Hunter is a role player.

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