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Thrashers tried to swing big deal

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Old
03-04-2004, 12:42 PM
  #1
Buffaloed
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Thrashers tried to swing big deal

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=74906
3/4/2004

The Atlanta Thrashers made a strong effort to acquire a top player who would have helped the team during it's six week slide earlier this year which has left them fighting for a playoff spot.



So says agent Jay Grossman who represents Brian Leetch and Alexei Zhamnov in the Atlanta Journal and Constitution. "In the end, it was unachievable in the light of the fact that he (Waddell) has to have his focus on the future", said Grossman.

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03-04-2004, 03:03 PM
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Of course a big deal is going to cost something in return.

But even a move as minor as a Larionov or something along those lines could have made a great difference. That he made no moves of any substance is something that many NHL pundits, GMs, and other observers will question for quite a while.

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03-04-2004, 06:26 PM
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Peter Sidorkiewicz
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Atlanta could of got Zhamnov and possibly even Viktor Kozlov given that Philadelphia and New Jersey acquired them without giving up any significant that will hurt either team in the future. Is just that DW probably thought that the return of Heatley and other players from injury would spark the team so therefore he didn't find it was necessary to make a deal. Bad (non)move in hindsight.

Zhamnov was acquired (with a 4th round pick) for Vandermeer, Fraser and 2nd Round Pick. Take out Fraser and the 4th round pick, I believe that our 2nd round pick plus a defenceman such as Tjarnqvist is just as fair value for Zhamnov than Vandermeer and Philly's 2nd round pick.

I also believe a player such as Santala plus a defenceman such as Foster or Ustrnul is fair value for Viktor Kozlov considering it only took Bergland and Uchevatov to acquire him from Florida, although the panthers probably would be reluctant to deal him to the thrashers, consdering we are divisional rivals.


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03-04-2004, 10:29 PM
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Those of you who read that article and knew that was the biggest piece of horse s..t you have ever read, I agree with you. Let Jeff schultz write the columns on the Thrashers from now on. If the thrashers sights were on the playoffs and your team was hurting, you must make a trade or two, we're not damn supid, you can make a trade, excluding Lethonen and Coburn. The problem that DW had was his depth that he signed in the off-season, trades and the waiver wire. ALL UTILITY PLAYERS. Players who played with heart and that's all we could ask.

[B]Signed:[/B] Robitaille, Healey, Swanson, Heins, Lindsay
Trades: Kloucek, Grand-Pierre, Simon, Majesky
Waiver wire: Aubin, Petrovicky, Hurme, Larsen

DW, it's time for you to come out and say, "I let the Team and the organization down". If you want an extention on your contract as a GM for the Thrashers, take responsibility for a change!

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03-05-2004, 07:45 AM
  #5
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While the lack of a trade was disconcerting I don't see what DW had as far as assets go to acquire something. Beyond our top prospects we really don't have the depth to acquire a "good" player. If you look at what we've received in trades it paints a pretty bleak picture of what else we could of acquired. I don't think that we could have reasonably acquired anything better than Kloucek, GP, Simon or Majesky in a trade considering what we had to offer. Unless we wanted to mortgage the future for a shortsighted run at the playoffs now.

I'm not convinced that one or two players could have rescued this team from the depths of the tailspin they were in.

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03-05-2004, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voynich
Unless we wanted to mortgage the future for a shortsighted run at the playoffs now.

I'm not convinced that one or two players could have rescued this team from the depths of the tailspin they were in.
Future? What future? Is the future a guaranteed Stanley Cup or is it a crap-shoot that your draft picks and prospects pan out the way you hope they do? I am convinced that two players could of helped this team. If and if the Thrashers could of won four or five games during that tailspin we would be right there with the Islanders seeking that 8th spot.

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03-05-2004, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Mojo
Future? What future? Is the future a guaranteed Stanley Cup or is it a crap-shoot that your draft picks and prospects pan out the way you hope they do? I am convinced that two players could of helped this team. If and if the Thrashers could of won four or five games during that tailspin we would be right there with the Islanders seeking that 8th spot.
There are never any guarantees in sports. There is no guarantee that if DW had acquired two players that they would have helped or even stayed healthy. I would rather keep building the franchise as he has and have a team that is highly competitive for several years than a team that is marginally competitive for one.

Would two players have guaranteed us a Stanley Cup? Hell no. It would have given us the chance to get bounced in the first round of the playoffs.

However, I'm fairly certain that trading away our best prospects would have guranteed us of not having a shot at a Stanley Cup down the road.

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03-06-2004, 10:29 AM
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[QUOTE=Voynich]

I would rather keep building the franchise as he has and have a team that is highly competitive for several years than a team that is marginally competitive for one.

Would two players have guaranteed us a Stanley Cup? Hell no. It would have given us the chance to get bounced in the first round of the playoffs.


Is this Don Waddell under the name of Voynich? If the Thrashers are not striving for the playoffs every year from now on after enduring 5 years of bad hockey, then we'll be watching NHL again on ESPN in two years. Winnipeg Thrashers? I like the faith you have in the Thrashers organization and the players when you state that they would be bounced in the first round of the playoffs if the made it to the dance. DW owes it to the Thrashers fans to put a playoff product on the ice instead of unfulfilled promises. His 5-year plan in reality is more like a 10 year crap-shoot and hockey will not be taken seriously in Atlanta!

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03-06-2004, 11:12 AM
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Have you been watching this team? They are not good enough to even make the playoffs and if, by way of a trade for 2 players, they were to somehow manage to make it in the 8th spot then our craptacular goaltending would see us bounced in 4 games.

My opinion may not be the most optimistic in the world, but I think it is realistic. The Thrashers aren't good, they have no quality depth, and the goaltending sucks. The best way to fix that situation is to build through the draft, not trade off the future for a couple of rental players in a desperate attempt to squeak into the playoffs.

Regardless of your personal vendetta against Don Waddell I actually have more respect for him because he hasn't made desperation moves and cost the franchise future success, even with his job on the line. It would have been real easy for him to trade off Lehtonen, Coburn, and Slater or our 1st round pick earlier this year but he didn't.

While I don't like every move he has made, and I'm not going to waste any more of my time being an apologist for him, he has had his hands tied a bit this season due to a number of factors. However, I have no problem with him being held accountable for the state of the team. That is his job and nobody knows that more than Don himself. His 5 year plan is a failure as far as getting to the playoffs is concerned, but at least he has laid the groundwork for future success, even if he isn't around to enjoy it.

Two players would not guarantee us a Stanley Cup, or even a playoff spot, and neither does building through the draft and developing players, but I'd rather be the Senators in 5 more years than be the Rangers.

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03-06-2004, 01:12 PM
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Well said.

Sometimes the emotional fan in me takes over my rational thought processes. I agree that DW has systematically built the franchise. Perhaps not as quickly as I would like but as I look out 2-3 years I can see good things ahead.

There is no easy fix now. Marginal trades to slightly improve. I'm all for anything that doesn't mortgage the future.

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03-06-2004, 05:56 PM
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Oh my my! Sometime I read post that remind me of those pathetic Habs fan in this forum! Let face it, this team is young and still evolve and I think in the right way! We have a good balance of Vet and youngster! In the net, unless Lehtonen is a fluke, we shouldn't worry too much about that for the next 10 years! On the defence, we are lack of skill but do have nice surprise! Coburn is almost a future impact player and he would cost much less then Leetch or Gonchar. Just have to give him some time! Beside, with our first pick, we may get Baker who is also amazing on the blue line! If lack of offence, I think Schremp could be available too. But anyway, I do think we have a lot of potential impact players in a near future and it would be stupid to trade them just to make the playoff. Just take a look at Ottawa, they didn't panic! They have 5-6 seasons which they are just horrible and even Daigle is an horrible pick. But they have patience and built through the youngster! Now they made playoff each season and are more then a contender.

Playoff have no meaning if we don't have a chance to win the cup! And even with one or two impact players ( surely rental players) I don't think we could beat Toronto, Boston and Ottawa in a best of 7 series. So I believe the best move DW can do is to not moving and waiting for opportunity to come. When we have enought depth and ready, yeah I would move but not til then! And I have a feeling that that day may come soon!

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03-07-2004, 12:40 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siegfried

And I have a feeling that that day may come soon!
Being that said, Season Ticket Holders save your hard earn money until the year 2007!

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03-08-2004, 12:04 AM
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Too much despair in this thread. Here in Vancouver, we've been watching crap hockey for years. Decades.

When the turnaround comes, it happens quickly.

Atlanta has a bright future. They could probably make quick progress if Lehtonen (is that his name? ) is another Luongo, and by signing/trading for/developing some quality D. The first rounder would produce a very good return.

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03-08-2004, 12:48 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yammer
Too much despair in this thread. Here in Vancouver, we've been watching crap hockey for years. Decades.

When the turnaround comes, it happens quickly.

Atlanta has a bright future. They could probably make quick progress if Lehtonen (is that his name? ) is another Luongo, and by signing/trading for/developing some quality D. The first rounder would produce a very good return.
Patience is a rare commodity. Even though like many I waited a couple decades for Atlanta to get an NHL team again, I still have some patience left. I'm disappointed surely, but not to that point of desperation and frustration like some.

Too many people have seemingly bought into the "5 year plan" Waddell stated from the beginning, saying we would be a playoff team by then. I'm sure that is exactly what he meant to do and has tried to do, but in reality we all know (or should know) that so many things can happen in that time. Nothing is a guarantee; not something a week or a month from now, and especially not five years into the future. He knew that full well when he said it.

I'm happy he hasn't traded away something of the future for a short term gain. Obviously we can't know if that will indeed pay off in the future, but at least it will have the chance to. I'd rather have that possibility than a short term gain that in itself has no guarantee of working.

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03-08-2004, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cwthrash
Patience is a rare commodity. Even though like many I waited a couple decades for Atlanta to get an NHL team again, I still have some patience left. I'm disappointed surely, but not to that point of desperation and frustration like some.

Too many people have seemingly bought into the "5 year plan" Waddell stated from the beginning, saying we would be a playoff team by then. I'm sure that is exactly what he meant to do and has tried to do, but in reality we all know (or should know) that so many things can happen in that time. Nothing is a guarantee; not something a week or a month from now, and especially not five years into the future. He knew that full well when he said it.

I'm happy he hasn't traded away something of the future for a short term gain. Obviously we can't know if that will indeed pay off in the future, but at least it will have the chance to. I'd rather have that possibility than a short term gain that in itself has no guarantee of working.


Patience is a rare commodity. I was pissed when the Flames left town because of Tom Cousins and look what happen several years later in Calgary. some our suggesting that I want to trade Coburn or Lethonen, far from it. I have never said that we needed to mortgage the future. Bottom Line is holding Don Waddell to his words and promises! Holding him responsible and accountable! Up until 3:00 PM tomorrow, it's all about trading, but what happen last off-season when DW's so-called 100% main focus was shoring up our No# 1 problem-DEFENSE and what did he do, traded a second round pick for Majesky.

Off-Season UFA Signings: Robitallie, Swanson, Healy, Lindsay, Heins
Trades: Grand-Pierre, Kloucek, Simon
Waiver Wire: Hurme, Aubin, Petrovicky, Larsen

"Respect for him because he hasn't made desperation moves". Well, he never makes substantial moves period. Unfullfilled promises and the 5-year plan are all marketing tools and selling ploys to try and keep the fans faithful. We all have been thru the growing pains of building a franchise. It's time for DW to start earning his pay. You must think about the future, but your focus must always be on the present if you have any chance of a future.

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03-08-2004, 10:09 AM
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This is all just spin and as soon as I saw the article I knew what it was. It is bull....Waddell is too in love with draft picks. I don't expect to give up the farm but do something to help the product on the ice. He did nothing. He sat on his hands and waited too long. It wasn't like he couldhave expected the team to keep playing the way they did @ the beginning of the season. Because of this the Thrashers won't come anywhere close to the playoffs. It is on him. Noone else. Get over the draft picks and make a freakin trade. Becuase of Waddells inactivity on this I have decided not to renew my season tix again. It is a big sign of what sort of organization this is and how cheap it will be run. If and when the ownership situation gets resolved I may come back but not now. I am tired of being ripped off by this crappy organization. Someone else can have my seat next season. I am not waisting any more money on them.

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03-08-2004, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Mojo
Patience is a rare commodity. I was pissed when the Flames left town because of Tom Cousins and look what happen several years later in Calgary. some our suggesting that I want to trade Coburn or Lethonen, far from it. I have never said that we needed to mortgage the future. Bottom Line is holding Don Waddell to his words and promises! Holding him responsible and accountable! Up until 3:00 PM tomorrow, it's all about trading, but what happen last off-season when DW's so-called 100% main focus was shoring up our No# 1 problem-DEFENSE and what did he do, traded a second round pick for Majesky.

Off-Season UFA Signings: Robitallie, Swanson, Healy, Lindsay, Heins
Trades: Grand-Pierre, Kloucek, Simon
Waiver Wire: Hurme, Aubin, Petrovicky, Larsen

"Respect for him because he hasn't made desperation moves". Well, he never makes substantial moves period. Unfullfilled promises and the 5-year plan are all marketing tools and selling ploys to try and keep the fans faithful. We all have been thru the growing pains of building a franchise. It's time for DW to start earning his pay. You must think about the future, but your focus must always be on the present if you have any chance of a future.
I am not trying to defend all his actions. It would be highly unrealistic for me to do so, since I know very little of what actually takes place in his duties.

We can all scream and cry and vent or whatever about what he has or hasn't done, but in the end it is a very useless point to try and make. The bottom line is that we do not know what really goes on with an NHL GM. We know little or nothing of the in-depth player info they have (things that go beyond scouting reports) or the real personal relationships between the GMs themselves. Things like this are just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many more details, big and small, that we don't know of. Aside from ruining an organization, it is very presumptuous to assume that a GM has actually done a bad job (or a good one for that matter). Their is entirely too much ambiguity, too much asymmetrical information for us as fans to render any kind of judgment.

In our frustration, I know that some people will rush to judgment. That's understandable. As long as you realize in the end that judgment was misplaced, it's understandable. If you truly believe he has done a poor job (given what little we know in reality), that's another story.

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03-09-2004, 01:09 AM
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The Spirit,L.L.C. will not extend Dandy Don "I'm a Buyer" Waddell's contract when they take over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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03-09-2004, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Mojo
Up until 3:00 PM tomorrow, it's all about trading, but what happen last off-season when DW's so-called 100% main focus was shoring up our No# 1 problem-DEFENSE and what did he do, traded a second round pick for Majesky.
Bam! Boom! End of thread right there. This is my take on it: I thought this was going to be a playoff team before the season started (seriously) but Waddell was so pre-occupied with re-signing Kozlov he didn't sign some d-men. He flirted with Berard and others, but just like other summers past he failed to seal the deal (he did sign Krupp, though he shouldn't have went near him). Waddell's ineptness to fix the D is a fireable offense. If I was him, I wouldn't trade anyone off his roster today unless it's a d-man. If he trades McEachern and has no suitable replacement he needs to be fired. His problem is his D, and always has been his D. Fix the D, Waddell!

All it takes is for Waddell to sign a couple of d-men in the offseason. Guys like Hill & Ward would do wonders for your team, IMO.

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03-09-2004, 07:53 AM
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I thought DW's problem was his horrendous goalie choices?

I won't be all that sad to see him gone. Not enough Marc Savard type trades and too many Kloucek/Rossiter/Majesky type trades for me.

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