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Does Burke match?

View Poll Results: Does Burke match Lowe's Penner offer?
Yes 164 29.50%
No 392 70.50%
Voters: 556. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-02-2007, 03:25 PM
  #276
AVE MAN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admiral_CB View Post
Bertuzzi was $300k less and is a lot more proven... I think we have size still.
I agree with you. I was just comparing Penner to Parise. I would much rather have Penner.

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08-02-2007, 03:26 PM
  #277
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08-02-2007, 03:31 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by CdHC View Post
Every year? He played less than 20 games the previous season. How is it possible NOT to improve on that when you play 4x more games the following eyar?
Im talking about the 84 points in 57 games in Portland. Those are Jason Spezza AHL numbers.

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08-02-2007, 03:39 PM
  #279
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How does Bobby Ryan compare to Dustin Penner?

Reason I ask is TSN says: "With Bobby Ryan, the second overall pick in the 2005 draft on the way, the Ducks also have an up-and-coming power forward to effectively replace Penner"

So similar type player? I thought Ryan was more a point producer type player, rather then a projected power forward (not that PF's can't produce).

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08-02-2007, 03:39 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admiral_CB View Post
Bertuzzi was $300k less and is a lot more proven... I think we have size still.
But Bertuzzi isn't a replacement for Penner, he's a replacement for Teemu. We didn't get anything for Dustin except picks that can't score any goals for us this season (or next season, or probably the season after that). Right now are #2 LW is either Travis Moen or Brad May. The UFA pool is almost totally dried up so in all likelihood either one of those guys will be the #2. This sucks. I'm glad we don't have that contract constricting our cap but if Pens continues to improve, like he's been doing every year since he was 18, than we lose this deal. Time will tell I guess.

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08-02-2007, 03:42 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abax44 View Post
How does Bobby Ryan compare to Dustin Penner?

Reason I ask is TSN says: "With Bobby Ryan, the second overall pick in the 2005 draft on the way, the Ducks also have an up-and-coming power forward to effectively replace Penner"

So similar type player? I thought Ryan was more a point producer type player, rather then a projected power forward (not that PF's can't produce).
Similar body-types, similar skating styles but Dustin is an opportunistic goal-scorer (ie gets a lot of garbage goals) whereas Bobby is a playmaker. They both have great hands though Bobby's are better. If Dustin ever uses his size properly he could be a 50 goal scorer. But Bobby has a brighter future. But no way can he come close to what Dustin did last year for us this year. No way.

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08-02-2007, 03:45 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
Similar body-types, similar skating styles but Dustin is an opportunistic goal-scorer (ie gets a lot of garbage goals) whereas Bobby is a playmaker. They both have great hands though Bobby's are better. If Dustin ever uses his size properly he could be a 50 goal scorer. But Bobby has a brighter future. But no way can he come close to what Dustin did last year for us this year. No way.
I think Penner has the potential to score even more in Edmonton as they'll need him more then Anaheim did. Good for him if he does.

Is Ryan more gritty then Penner? That's something I wish Penner had more of. An edge/mean streak.

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08-02-2007, 03:58 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
Im talking about the 84 points in 57 games in Portland. Those are Jason Spezza AHL numbers.
Look at his numbers the year before, then look who he played on a line with in the AHL.

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08-02-2007, 04:00 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
But Bertuzzi isn't a replacement for Penner, he's a replacement for Teemu. We didn't get anything for Dustin except picks that can't score any goals for us this season (or next season, or probably the season after that). Right now are #2 LW is either Travis Moen or Brad May. The UFA pool is almost totally dried up so in all likelihood either one of those guys will be the #2. This sucks. I'm glad we don't have that contract constricting our cap but if Pens continues to improve, like he's been doing every year since he was 18, than we lose this deal. Time will tell I guess.
We don't lose this deal because we get 3 draft picks in a deep draft and 4.3 million in cap space.

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08-02-2007, 04:03 PM
  #285
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He's already got his Oilers hat on. Kinda funny. He's signing Ducks pics and wearing an Oilers hat.

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08-02-2007, 04:07 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admiral_CB View Post
We don't lose this deal because we get 3 draft picks in a deep draft and 4.3 million in cap space.
If Penner scores 35-40 goals this year we do. Those picks won't benefit this team for a long, long time and do nothing for us this season. I'm sure the draft if real deep but the entry draft is still a crap shoot. I think there's a better chance of Penner putting up big numbers this season than those picks turning out to be studs. This time next year people may just well be saying that Penner's contract is a bargain.

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08-02-2007, 04:17 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davey Duck View Post
What's crazy is if this goes through, look at what has happened in the last few months:

Shane O'Brien (8th Round) + Dustin Penner (undrafted) = combined 163 games NHL experience

for

1st Round Pick + 1st Round Pick + 2nd Round Pick + 3rd Round Pick


Yeah, they gave up some talent, but when you look at what it cost them to acquire that talent and how little experience the talent had, this is crazy.
To clarify, the better tally should be
O'Brien + 2nd + Penner for
1st (MacMillan), 2nd (Tangradi), 1,2,3 (Edm)

People keep forgetting that we gave O'Brien and a 2nd for the first, meaning O'Brien was worth roughly a 2nd.

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08-02-2007, 04:33 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obobo23 View Post
To clarify, the better tally should be
O'Brien + 2nd + Penner for
1st (MacMillan), 2nd (Tangradi), 1,2,3 (Edm)

People keep forgetting that we gave O'Brien and a 2nd for the first, meaning O'Brien was worth roughly a 2nd.
We actually gave up a third in that deal, not a second.

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08-02-2007, 04:35 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admiral_CB View Post
Look at his numbers the year before, then look who he played on a line with in the AHL.
I am looking at his #'s the year before, that's why I'm saying that he keeps improving.
Who did he play with?
Were they better than Hemsky?

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08-02-2007, 04:38 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admiral_CB View Post
We don't lose this deal because we get 3 draft picks in a deep draft and 4.3 million in cap space.
Well you don't actually get 4.3 million in cap space. You were never paying Penner 4.3 million ......

Anyways, it appears both sets of fans should be pretty happy with the outcome. The Oiler fan majority was hoping that Burke would walk, and the Duck fan majority were hoping that Burke would walk.

Worked out nicely for all of us in the end!

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08-02-2007, 04:45 PM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
I am looking at his #'s the year before, that's why I'm saying that he keeps improving.
Who did he play with?
Were they better than Hemsky?
In my opinion Getzlaf is better than Hemsky.

Penner put those points up playing with Perry and Getzlaf also.

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08-02-2007, 04:46 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Z View Post
Well you don't actually get 4.3 million in cap space. You were never paying Penner 4.3 million ......

Anyways, it appears both sets of fans should be pretty happy with the outcome. The Oiler fan majority was hoping that Burke would walk, and the Duck fan majority were hoping that Burke would walk.

Worked out nicely for all of us in the end!
If Burke matches Penner costs 4.3 million in capspace so technically we have it available. I think you knew what I meant.

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08-02-2007, 04:47 PM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
If Penner scores 35-40 goals this year we do. Those picks won't benefit this team for a long, long time and do nothing for us this season. I'm sure the draft if real deep but the entry draft is still a crap shoot. I think there's a better chance of Penner putting up big numbers this season than those picks turning out to be studs. This time next year people may just well be saying that Penner's contract is a bargain.
Next season they might not do something for us or they might be traded for immediate help.

Also, that 1st round from Edmonton might be a damn good pick that can help us right away in '08-'09.

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08-02-2007, 05:00 PM
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admiral_CB View Post
Penner put those points up playing with Perry and Getzlaf also.

Seems like all of Peners success is attributed to Perry and Getzlaf.

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08-02-2007, 05:09 PM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
Seems like all of Peners success is attributed to Perry and Getzlaf.
Pretty much, I don't know if he'll fit in Edmonton's system.

This actually reminds me a lot of Lupul when he was traded to Edmonton and all of their fans on their board were really excited and had a lot of high expectations. Fans were already placing him on their current line system just to see him struggle through out the season.

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08-02-2007, 05:11 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Ducksforcup View Post
We actually gave up a third in that deal, not a second.
Yup, 3rd. Apparently I'm also counted in "people" who "forgot." D'oh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLau View Post
Pretty much, I don't know if he'll fit in Edmonton's system.

This actually reminds me a lot of Lupul when he was traded to Edmonton and all of their fans on their board were really excited and had a lot of high expectations. Fans were already placing him on their current line system just to see him struggle through out the season.
Penner won't fail like Lupul did, he a) won't have as much pressure on him (being hometown and an owner's relative) and b) he seems less phased by pressure.

But there is certainly a huge parallel in how some Oilers fans expect him to do so well immediately. He may succeed in Edmonton, just expect some growing pains and adjustment time. Of course hopefully he does fail miserably this year because our first round pick is riding on it. And beware that your players and system won't fit him very well in the beginning.

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08-02-2007, 05:17 PM
  #297
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This might be the beginning of a curse. Newport kids going to Edmonton and flopping.

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08-02-2007, 05:19 PM
  #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
Seems like all of Peners success is attributed to Perry and Getzlaf.
I wouldn't say it's attributed to those two. But let's not kid ourselves, the guy was in just about the perfect situation ... the system was a perfect fit for his style of play, he was the third guy on a scoring line, the "front of the net guy" on the PP with Nieds-Pronger-Selanne-Mcdonald/Getzlaf, and no penalty killing minutes to speak of. All while being backed up defensively by two Norris guys, a clutch goalie, and one of the best sets of backchecking forwards in the league. Life doesn't get any easier for an NHL player than that.

Granted, he took advantage of that perfect scenario (which a lesser player might not have), but he wasn't in a situation where he had to perform or the team would be in trouble, or the fans would be all over him, etc.. Heck, everyone agrees he had a pretty invisible playoff, yet the team still went 16-5 on the way to a Cup. Somehow I think if he's invisible for the Oilers for various stretches of time, it won't be as minor an issue in Edmonton.

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08-02-2007, 05:21 PM
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVE MAN View Post
Another way to look at this is:

If a 5'10", 183lbs, 30 goal scorer is worth 3.125Million then a 30 goal scorer who is 6'5" and 245lbs is worth at least a million more.

Bigger men are better playoff performers than small guys, who cant take the physical game over a period of time.


As ANA fans you know that better than anyone where size combined with talent can take you. Look at what Buffalo did in the playoffs with all those small forwards. After a few rounds they just wore down.
If Parise is worth 3.125 then Penner is easily worth 4.25 mill

Stats dont tell the whole story. Penner created a lot of room for his linemates and that doesn't always show up on he scoresheet.


Believe me Burke would have never let Penner go pre-Bertuzzi signing.
He couldn't get Marchant traded (Bob Mckenzie rumour)so he had no choice.
30 goals and 30 goals. But there's also 45 points vs 62 points. And speaking of stepping up for the playoffs, you do realize that Parise outscored Penner 10-8, in about half the games?

Look I like Penner and wish we still had him. But Parise at 3+ million is way better than Penner at 4+. And you're right, numbers don't tell the whole story. Make sure you stick to that, he won't be putting up the numbers you're expecting (50 goals).

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