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Dumping Lower Prospects?

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Old
08-04-2007, 11:15 PM
  #26
FLYLine24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
No thanks.
2nd that. I don't consider him our lower prospect in which i'd trade for a simple 3rd round pick. Maybe players like Graham and Liffiton (I'd be willing to get a 5th from him acutally)

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08-04-2007, 11:39 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannoabram View Post
id trade vancouvers 2008 3rd for dane byers
I think Byers is worth more than #3. He was drafted in the second round, and if anything, his value increased a little and definitely did NOT decrease.

How about Byers, Dawes and Pock for first rounder? 3 players who're all likely to be in the NHL (at least 2 of the 3 will play) for a first round pick ... almost half of first rounders do not play in the NHL on regular basis, like Brendl, Lundmark, Jeff Brown, and many other suck, like Cloutier... on the other hand, you have a chance that your first rounder will be a star.


Last edited by Beacon: 08-04-2007 at 11:46 PM.
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Old
08-04-2007, 11:44 PM
  #28
DarthSather99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Doesn't have to be Ryan or Graham. Anyone outside our top 20, such as Greg Moore, Liffiton, etc. Maybe some GM has a prospect he likes for some reason amongst our bottom 10-20.

If Pock+Immo get us a #2, great. If I need to add in Potter to get it done, I won't lose sleep over him.

In fact, I would dump about a dozen lower level prospects for 2-6 round picks (some packaged together for one pick) and then draft high-risk, high-return prospects like Christian Dube, Daniel Goneau, Bryan Swanson, Mike York and Marc Savard.

There's no reason to keep so many prospects whose upper level potential is 3-4 line. Better to draft a few high-risk, high-return prospects... at least some of them wind up as stars (Savard) or at least important top-6 players (Mike York)... Third liners can always be signed and it looks like NYR isn't short on young role players anyway.

Here're some possible things I'd want to see (doesn't have to be exactly like this, but just some idea):

Immo+Pock=#2
Hutchinson+Byers=#2
Jessiman+Liffiton+Ryan=#2
Dupont+Potter+Graham=#3

That's 4 second rounder and 2 third rounders in 2008. Now draft high-risk, high-return prospects. If even one of them turns into Marc Savard, we're miles ahead of what we gave up.
that would be 4 second rounders and 3 thirds

our own, Carolina's (Cullen deal) and the one above.

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Old
08-04-2007, 11:56 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
I think Byers is worth more than #3. He was drafted in the second round, and if anything, his value increased a little and definitely did NOT decrease.

How about Byers, Dawes and Pock for first rounder? 3 players who're all likely to be in the NHL (at least 2 of the 3 will play) for a first round pick ... almost half of first rounders do not play in the NHL on regular basis, like Brendl, Lundmark, Jeff Brown, and many other suck, like Cloutier... on the other hand, you have a chance that your first rounder will be a star.

And speaking of first round picks... Since 1992, not a single Rangers first round has become a good player. Now, some have high hopes (Monty, Staal, Pasta), but so did Brendl, Lundmark, Cloutier, etc.

Blackburn and Cherneski suffered career-ending injuries. Sundstrom and Malhotra became role players who are a dime a dozen, definitely not worth top 10 picks that they were. Cloutier too wasn't worth the first round pick wasted on him.

Some players like Brendl, Lundmark, Peter Ferraro, Jeff Brown never even became regulars. Jessiman will likely be one of them too.

That's really pretty terrible. Twelve (12) drafts from 1992 to 2003 did not produce a single top-6 player.

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Old
08-05-2007, 12:37 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
And speaking of first round picks... Since 1992, not a single Rangers first round has become a good player. Now, some have high hopes (Monty, Staal, Pasta), but so did Brendl, Lundmark, Cloutier, etc.

Blackburn and Cherneski suffered career-ending injuries. Sundstrom and Malhotra became role players who are a dime a dozen, definitely not worth top 10 picks that they were. Cloutier too wasn't worth the first round pick wasted on him.

Some players like Brendl, Lundmark, Peter Ferraro, Jeff Brown never even became regulars. Jessiman will likely be one of them too.

That's really pretty terrible. Twelve (12) drafts from 1992 to 2003 did not produce a single top-6 player.
i would say that Cloutier made it as a #1 goalie for a good 10 years or so. He only lost his job as a started post lockout. His inability to win the big games ultimately did him in in Vancouver.

who the hell is Pasta?

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08-05-2007, 12:44 AM
  #31
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he's probably referring to Sanguinetti...

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08-05-2007, 07:11 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER View Post
Dupont? You have to be kidding. Try watching these players before making some off the cuff trade. Ryan has talent. He needs to fill out and could be a useful player.
Any feasible thought of legitimzing this thread was thrown out the window with including Dupont in the collection of "lower prospects." Besides, the whole concept is just an atrocious exercise of asset management.

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08-05-2007, 09:52 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
I think Byers is worth more than #3. He was drafted in the second round, and if anything, his value increased a little and definitely did NOT decrease
id have to agree. id want him packaged in pretty much any deal with the rangers

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Old
08-05-2007, 10:16 PM
  #34
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on Byers, id like to see him to replace Hollweg. Byers score 2 times as much in the AHL as Hollweg did, Byers has more size at 6'3 195 and is a physical player.

Id do like the idea of

Straka Gomez Jagr
Prucha Drury Shanny
Avery Dubinsky Callahan
Byers Betts Korpikoski/Bourret/Orr

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Old
08-05-2007, 10:32 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
on Byers, id like to see him to replace Hollweg. Byers score 2 times as much in the AHL as Hollweg did, Byers has more size at 6'3 195 and is a physical player.

Id do like the idea of

Straka Gomez Jagr
Prucha Drury Shanny
Avery Dubinsky Callahan
Byers Betts Korpikoski/Bourret/Orr
Do the Rangers NEED scoring from the 4th line?

Stop saying Byers has more size then Hollweg..Hollweg weighs more and USES HIS SIZE BETTER!!!

Up until the day the Rangers got Sean Avery EVERYBODY loved Hollweg...His scoring should never be an issue..Tom Renney went on record during the season and said "the rangers would kill those penalites (meaning Hollwegs rough stuff) everygame"

Hollweg also didn't look the same after the Simon hit...He should be given a shot in camp to show his worth...Hollweg playing with Betts and Orr/Callahan/whoever is a tough line to play against...

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Old
08-06-2007, 12:53 AM
  #36
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For nothing you usually get..... nothing.

Although Bourret for DuPuis was not bad.

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Old
08-06-2007, 02:22 AM
  #37
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Other teams dont want our low level prospects. Lifiton serves a purpose. He can come up in case of injury without being subjected to waivers.

I believe Kaspar and Malik will be waived in camp unless there is an injury, but assuming Kaspar, Malik and Hutch will be waived and picked up by other teams,(If Kaspar is in shape and looks good in camp, some team may claim him that has space like the Caps, Isles or Yotes), Malik will get claimed so our top 6 Dmen will look like this:

Rozival Staal
Tytin Girardi
Pock Mara

With Strudwick as our 7th Dman.

Baranka will be 8th on the Depth Chart and Lifiton will be ninth or tenth. There have been years where Ive seen the Rangers go to the 11th or 12 Dman due to injuries.

We need guys like Liffiton who can hold the fort when the big team has injuries. Its hard to pass AHL vets through waivers. Another team in trouble can claim an AHL vet and the Rangers are on the hook for half the salary.

When David Liffiton gets to a point in his career where he is subject to waivers, then it is time to get rid of him.

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Old
08-06-2007, 06:01 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
Other teams dont want our low level prospects. Lifiton serves a purpose. He can come up in case of injury without being subjected to waivers.

I believe Kaspar and Malik will be waived in camp unless there is an injury, but assuming Kaspar, Malik and Hutch will be waived and picked up by other teams,(If Kaspar is in shape and looks good in camp, some team may claim him that has space like the Caps, Isles or Yotes), Malik will get claimed so our top 6 Dmen will look like this:

Rozival Staal
Tytin Girardi
Pock Mara

With Strudwick as our 7th Dman.

Baranka will be 8th on the Depth Chart and Lifiton will be ninth or tenth. There have been years where Ive seen the Rangers go to the 11th or 12 Dman due to injuries.

We need guys like Liffiton who can hold the fort when the big team has injuries. Its hard to pass AHL vets through waivers. Another team in trouble can claim an AHL vet and the Rangers are on the hook for half the salary.

When David Liffiton gets to a point in his career where he is subject to waivers, then it is time to get rid of him.
You think they will waive Malik and keep Strudwick?

Is there a bookie out there that will let me bet against that scenario?

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08-06-2007, 06:01 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Would you trade Pock and Immonen, and maybe another lower level prospect like Billy Ryan or Bruce Graham, for a second rounder (all 3 prospects combined for one 2nd rounder)?

I think some of the lower level prospects who we know won't become impact players in the NHL need to be packaged together for picks in the first two rounds so that Sather can take another stab at a few more high-risk, high-return prospects. I'd much rather have one first liner than 10 role players.
definitely. Anytime you can swap potential dead wood and 're-cycle' it into new high level picks its a good thing. There's no way you get that pick in that draft (supposedly deep) for long shots like Graham and Ryan...

The theory is a good one though.

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08-06-2007, 06:14 AM
  #40
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I think Strudwick is going to be kept around as a #8 d/ 14th forward/ cheerleader. Malik might be traded but I'd be shocked if he was waived. Kaspar I think is going to be going to Hartford or picked up by somebody and the Rangers will try to move either Pck or Hutchison for whatever they can get. If I were to guess our D coming out of training camp will be Roszival, Malik, Tyutin, Mara, Girardi, Staal, Pck with Strudwick as a fill in wherever. Kaspar goes to Hartford or is picked up on waivers. Hutchison gets traded for future considerations--anywhere between a 3rd and a 5th. Baranka misses the cut again--will be the first call up if any are needed.

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Old
08-06-2007, 08:47 AM
  #41
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Free...

I may not be much of a Malik fan, but there's no way he's getting waived, and the defense you lay out is not what Sather wants to go into the season with considering the firepower he's built up front and the potential for borrowing from next year's cap to try to win it this season. There's just not enough experience on that blueline.

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08-06-2007, 08:54 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I may not be much of a Malik fan, but there's no way he's getting waived, and the defense you lay out is not what Sather wants to go into the season with considering the firepower he's built up front and the potential for borrowing from next year's cap to try to win it this season. There's just not enough experience on that blueline.
Agreed. Waive Malik? There's more of a chance that he is extended in-season than there his he gets waived.

I'm not a Malik fan but if he was half as bad as people on this board make him out to be he wouldn't be in the NHL.

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08-06-2007, 09:02 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Agreed. Waive Malik? There's more of a chance that he is extended in-season than there his he gets waived.

I'm not a Malik fan but if he was half as bad as people on this board make him out to be he wouldn't be in the NHL.
Malik wont be here beyond next year unless he has a great year. Whilst im not his #1fan i agree with you that he isnt as bad as people make out either. However, 2.5m for a player who shouldnt be top pair and who is subject to alot of criticism and with the possible emergence of players like Staal(with by then, a year in the big show?) Sauer and Baranka... i think its all together possible that some of these and a UFA make Malik an Ex Ranger...of course if he signed for less who knows..... (not likely!)

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08-06-2007, 09:10 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
Malik wont be here beyond next year unless he has a great year. Whilst im not his #1fan i agree with you that he isnt as bad as people make out either. However, 2.5m for a player who shouldnt be top pair and who is subject to alot of criticism and with the possible emergence of players like Staal(with by then, a year in the big show?) Sauer and Baranka... i think its all together possible that some of these and a UFA make Malik an Ex Ranger...of course if he signed for less who knows..... (not likely!)
Don't be so sure. The coaching staff really likes him. They seem wed to the Malik-Rozsival pairing.

My point is at this point in time, where this team is, Malik is decent value at 2.5M. And there is more of a chance that they give him a new contract than there is that he gets waived.

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08-06-2007, 09:13 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Don't be so sure. The coaching staff really likes him. They seem wed to the Malik-Rozsival pairing.

My point is at this point in time, where this team is, Malik is decent value at 2.5M. And there is more of a chance that they give him a new contract than there is that he gets waived.
i agree with you that they like him... IMO i'd keep him next year, just not for that money and he wont take less to stay, someone will give him far more than 2.5 if Poti gets 3.5!!!!

Im just hoping that Staal has a good rookie year and a couple of the other talented kids play there way on to the team thereby making his contract unecessary....

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