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Rangers should 150% target Marian Hossa in 08

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08-08-2007, 06:28 PM
  #101
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I think this is a no-brainer too. For the exact reasons you just gave.

Cap shouldn't be a problem. Raises for The King, Avery and Rosie can come from the annual increase of the cap. Straka, Malik, Mara, Hutchinson and Strudwick make about $10M that will be taken off the cap. Right now, Shanny's salary AND bonus fits into the 07-08 cap, so that would actually free up more space.

In total, NYR should have at least $15M in cap space next year.

Give the King an extra $1.5 a year.
Give Avery an $1.5M if he has a great year, less if he has an ok year.
Rosie would get an additional $2.5 or so.

That's $5.5M. $6 at most. At least $9M would be left. I doubt Hossa would command more in the age of salary cap.

And the reasons for signing Hossa are below:


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
Heatley isn't leaving ottawa and I'd rather have Marian than Ilya.

Think about it, you got the brother thing going on, plus you're gonna need to replace Jags with a real top 10 talent in this league, plus that one(maybe 2) year(s) of them playing together would be absolutely insane. Cap shouldn't be an issue with all of that money coming off the books next year....plus, the cap is sure to go up at least 3 mil.
Alright, I can't think about this anymore, I might cream myself.

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08-08-2007, 06:31 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodmunch View Post
I dont think locking Hossa into a long term contract would be good from the Rangers POV.

Besides, they have many prospects coming up who Im sure can do the job
Cherep, Bourrett, Dawes, Korps, etc. are all potential second liners. Low-level first liners at most. None of them are expected to be superstars like Hossa. Do the job is not the same as being a superstar.

Prucha can do the job also, but he sure as hell not Crosby. Let's keep things in perspective.

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08-08-2007, 06:37 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by rodmunch View Post
The point is, the Rangers already have Gomez and Drury locked in to expensive longterm deals, and Lundqvist should also get one. While Hossa would be great, I doubt the Rangers could afford yet another expensive longterm deal while being able field good depth on the roster.
Yes, they can.

Malik's salary will go for Rosie's raise.
Hutchinson+Strudwick salaries for a raise for Avery.
Straka, Mara and Shanny salaries for Hossa.

Plus, the salary cap will increase.

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08-08-2007, 06:46 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Cherep, Bourrett, Dawes, Korps, etc. are all potential second liners. Low-level first liners at most. None of them are expected to be superstars like Hossa. Do the job is not the same as being a superstar.

Prucha can do the job also, but he sure as hell not Crosby. Let's keep things in perspective.
Cherepanov and Bourrett are potential 1st liners.

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08-08-2007, 06:46 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Cherep, Bourrett, Dawes, Korps, etc. are all potential second liners. Low-level first liners at most. None of them are expected to be superstars like Hossa. Do the job is not the same as being a superstar.

Prucha can do the job also, but he sure as hell not Crosby. Let's keep things in perspective.
How many guys, that is prospects on the whole, truly project to be superstars?

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08-08-2007, 06:52 PM
  #106
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I think it's too early...

to tell on Bourret. You're talking about a kid who scored something like 50 points in 60 games last season. Not sure that screams first line NHLer. He's young, and he had a good playoffs and run, but he still needs to put together a full, productive AHL season.

Singn' - the answer is zero.

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08-08-2007, 06:53 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Singn' - the answer is zero.
Aside from Crosby (and maybe Ovechkin), I tend to agree.

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08-08-2007, 07:06 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
How can you say that when you don't know how much the cap is going up next year?

And do you really think it would be a great idea to spend 28m on 4 players?

The Rangers would be ok with 4 players at $28 because they will be able to surround them with youngsters like Prucha, Bourrett, Cherry, Korps, AA, Dubi, Cally, Byers, Betts, Pyatt and a few other potential prospects up front. On defense, they will have Staal, Pasta, Girardi, Tuts, Sauer, Baranka, Liffiton, Pock, Busto and there are several more prospects. (Plus Rosie is still pretty young and should be around for a few years for veteran leadership).

None of them will command very high salaries for the next few years, as they develop and establish themselves in the NHL.

Youngsters are always underpaid - take a look at Lundqvist, he'd have been paid much more if he had a few more seasons like the last two. Even Prucha would get paid double that if he had 6 seasons at 20-30 goals each, not 2. But since kids are unproven, they don't get paid the same salaries.

So in the next few years, NYR will be ok. Then the kids will start getting raises, but by then, the salary cap will increase enough to do so.

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have Hossa, Drury and Gomez (and the King in the net and Rosie on D) as our veteran backbone, with the talented kids listed about coming up.

So, yes, the Rangers are one of the few teams that can tie up $28M in 4 players - rookies and kids let you do that.

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08-08-2007, 07:10 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
The Rangers would be ok with 4 players at $28 because they will be able to surround them with youngsters like Prucha, Bourrett, Cherry, Korps, AA, Dubi, Cally, Byers, Betts, Pyatt and a few other potential prospects up front. On defense, they will have Staal, Pasta, Girardi, Tuts, Sauer, Baranka, Liffiton, Pock, Busto and there are several more prospects. (Plus Rosie is still pretty young and should be around for a few years for veteran leadership).

None of them will command very high salaries for the next few years, as they develop and establish themselves in the NHL.

Youngsters are always underpaid - take a look at Lundqvist, he'd have been paid much more if he had a few more seasons like the last two. Even Prucha would get paid double that if he had 6 seasons at 20-30 goals each, not 2. But since kids are unproven, they don't get paid the same salaries.

So in the next few years, NYR will be ok. Then the kids will start getting raises, but by then, the salary cap will increase enough to do so.

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have Hossa, Drury and Gomez (and the King in the net and Rosie on D) as our veteran backbone, with the talented kids listed about coming up.

So, yes, the Rangers are one of the few teams that can tie up $28M in 4 players - rookies and kids let you do that.
you realize that during the contacts of Drury, Gomez, Henrik, and Hossa (for example) some of the kids above would be poached as RFA's?

you realize that not all the kids will be ready for the NHL....or worse some might not even make it to the NHL?

you realize the salary cap might not go up? do you realize that avery, rozsival, and any of the other ufa's that the Rangers would probably like to resign are NOT going to give the Rangers are hometown discount?



Hossa isn't going to happen...it's a bad idea....scratch that...it's a very bad idea that has no basis in reality..

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08-08-2007, 07:16 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodmunch View Post
How do you know?

He has a five year deal, it could be 3-4 years before our core pieces get thier raises
You are being awfully optimistic there. If nothing else, you can just trade Hossa then. But I doubt this will happen. I don't see people like Cherry, Bourrett, Dawes, AA, etc making big money in the next 5 years. They will only be rookies in 08-09. And then it will take a few years for them to develop and PROVE their stardom

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08-08-2007, 07:29 PM
  #111
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I think Hossa is a real quality player, but I think the Rangers need to wait until 09/10 when Jagr's money is guaranteed to come off the books to make a real run at a successful "replacement." Hopefully, the farm wingers that are being discussed can hopefully step in, but worse case scenario, I'd like to see them target someone like Gaborik, or even Havlat, although he has been a bit soft last few years.

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08-08-2007, 07:31 PM
  #112
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Well I'm not going to flat out say I hate the idea...but I'm not that crazy about it. At the very least I'd like to wait until next summer to see where we are before seriously considering it.

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08-08-2007, 07:32 PM
  #113
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I would love Hossa with Jagr.

Drury and Jagr on on line, Gomez and Hossa on another. Throw in Prucha and a rookie like Cherry, Bourrett or Dawes, and it becomes almost unstoppable.

45 minutes of a game, we'd have an above average first line on the ice. And the depth would be excellent also with Avery, Callahan, Hossa, Byers, Betts, Dubi, AA, etc.

That team should be a top contender for the Cup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
the real issue is there's only a 20% chance of that...

What is this thread about again? If Jagr is still a Ranger, there's about a zero percent chance of that happening. If Jagr is not a Ranger, then other things would have to happen for that to occur. Too early to talk about next season's targets since at this point, we're not 100% sure what the Rangers will need next season; future stars may emerge in certain positions.

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08-08-2007, 07:36 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
I would love Hossa with Jagr.

Drury and Jagr on on line, Gomez and Hossa on another. Throw in Prucha and a rookie like Cherry, Bourrett or Dawes, and it becomes almost unstoppable.

45 minutes of a game, we'd have an above average first line on the ice. And the depth would be excellent also with Avery, Callahan, Hossa, Byers, Betts, Dubi, AA, etc.

That team should be a top contender for the Cup.
wait...with all that star talent the Rangers should win a cup?!?!?!?!?

Where have i heard that before?

oh wait...the years the team missed the playoffs..

if teams played 60 minutes at even strength then you might have a point...teams don't and it would be impossible to get the "top liners" as much ice time as they need..

either way

it's not going to happen...

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08-08-2007, 07:37 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
How many guys, that is prospects on the whole, truly project to be superstars?
Exactly, very few. Malkin was projected to be a star. I remember everyone (aka Blueshirt Bulletin) saying that either Marc Savard will be a star or a minor leaguer.

But precisely because we shouldn't expect any of our prospects to be superstars, we should sign Hossa.

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08-08-2007, 07:44 PM
  #116
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listen to brooklynhockey, the man knows what hes saying.

and to those of you worried about our RFAs being poached....as long as its not staal or cherepanov (it wont be), I could care less. Kevin Lowe can have all of them if he wants to give me his draft picks.

Hossa is a top 10 talent in this league, none of the guys in our system will ever be, its as simple as that.

you want the cup, you gotta have balls, chico, because the only thing in this world that gives orders is balls.

this is NOT like overpaying for holik, kaspar, lefebvre, kamensky, or fleury.

THIS IS A TOP 10 TALENT IN HIS PRIME


its like some of you are so scarred from the dark ages that you can't think rationally anymore. spending money isn't a bad thing

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08-08-2007, 07:45 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
you realize that during the contacts of Drury, Gomez, Henrik, and Hossa (for example) some of the kids above would be poached as RFA's?

you realize that not all the kids will be ready for the NHL....or worse some might not even make it to the NHL?

you realize the salary cap might not go up? do you realize that avery, rozsival, and any of the other ufa's that the Rangers would probably like to resign are NOT going to give the Rangers are hometown discount?

1. I don't expect Avery and Rosie to give a hometown discount. I already counted them to get $1.5 and $2.5 raise. For that kind of money, NYR can sign another player of similar caliber if they leave.

Salary cap will almost definitely increase. The Federal Reserve always prints more money each year, so at the very least, that causes inflation to rise 2-4%, depending on how much more money the Fed Reserve prints. But NHL inflation is actually higher.

2. I do realize that the kids may not make it. That's why it's important to sign Hossa. People are acting like Cherry and Bourrett will be the next Bure/Mogilny or Kariya/Selanne duo. They probably won't be. If one of them is a low-end first liner and the second one is a decent second liner, I'll be extremely happy. None of our prospects, and not Drury or Gomez, are people you build the team around as your main player.

3. I already counted Lundqvist and Avery getting raises.

4. I doubt many people will go after kids like Callahan. In any event, if they lose Callahan or someone like that, there are plenty of players who can be average NHLers. Dubi, AA, Byers, etc will step in to replace Cally or someone like that.

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08-08-2007, 07:51 PM
  #118
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There's a difference between getting a superstar in his prime like Hossa and getting old guys like Fleury (or second rate old guys like Kamensky). Hossa is in his prime. Fleury was almost done. Kamensky was neevr that good. In fact, Fleury wasn't as good as Hossa either (yes, yes, I know he was tough and scored, but never a top 10 player)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
wait...with all that star talent the Rangers should win a cup?!?!?!?!?

Where have i heard that before?

oh wait...the years the team missed the playoffs..

if teams played 60 minutes at even strength then you might have a point...teams don't and it would be impossible to get the "top liners" as much ice time as they need..

either way

it's not going to happen...

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08-08-2007, 07:51 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Exactly, very few. Malkin was projected to be a star. I remember everyone (aka Blueshirt Bulletin) saying that either Marc Savard will be a star or a minor leaguer.

But precisely because we shouldn't expect any of our prospects to be superstars, we should sign Hossa.
My point is guys aren't projected to be superstars. They become superstars. They guys you mention as projecting to be second liners or low-level first liners could very well become superstars.

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08-08-2007, 07:52 PM
  #120
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in all honesty, we don't need avery back next year. he has a big mouth and takes a lot of dumb penalties, i'd rather slide a kid into his spot.

also, you guys gotta stop with the bourrett. don waddel might be dumb, but hes not dumb enough to trade a future first liner for pascal dupuis.

right now, in our system, we only have one forward who has a high ceiling, and if you think he's gonna be a dominant winge rin this league before he turns 22, i'm sorry.....he's not ovechkin.

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08-08-2007, 07:53 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
listen to brooklynhockey, the man knows what hes saying.

and to those of you worried about our RFAs being poached....as long as its not staal or cherepanov (it wont be), I could care less. Kevin Lowe can have all of them if he wants to give me his draft picks.

Hossa is a top 10 talent in this league, none of the guys in our system will ever be, its as simple as that.

you want the cup, you gotta have balls, chico, because the only thing in this world that gives orders is balls.

this is NOT like overpaying for holik, kaspar, lefebvre, kamensky, or fleury.

THIS IS A TOP 10 TALENT IN HIS PRIME


its like some of you are so scarred from the dark ages that you can't think rationally anymore. spending money isn't a bad thing
no he really doesn't...after that i stopped reading..

yawn...

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08-08-2007, 07:55 PM
  #122
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Hossa would be a good addition to most teams, but this is all speculation, that should be addressed down the road.

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08-08-2007, 07:57 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
1. I don't expect Avery and Rosie to give a hometown discount. I already counted them to get $1.5 and $2.5 raise. For that kind of money, NYR can sign another player of similar caliber if they leave.

Salary cap will almost definitely increase. The Federal Reserve always prints more money each year, so at the very least, that causes inflation to rise 2-4%, depending on how much more money the Fed Reserve prints. But NHL inflation is actually higher.

2. I do realize that the kids may not make it. That's why it's important to sign Hossa. People are acting like Cherry and Bourrett will be the next Bure/Mogilny or Kariya/Selanne duo. They probably won't be. If one of them is a low-end first liner and the second one is a decent second liner, I'll be extremely happy. None of our prospects, and not Drury or Gomez, are people you build the team around as your main player.

3. I already counted Lundqvist and Avery getting raises.

4. I doubt many people will go after kids like Callahan. In any event, if they lose Callahan or someone like that, there are plenty of players who can be average NHLers. Dubi, AA, Byers, etc will step in to replace Cally or someone like that.


you aren't taking into account important things like chemstry...

you aren't taking into account things important things like the salary cap...

you aren't taking into account that just because you say a guy is getting a 2.5 million dollar raise means it's a 2.5 million dollar raise...

you aren't taking into account that you can't have to many chiefs and not enough indians..

you aren't taking into account that the federal reserve has nothing to do with the NHL...

you aren't taking into account that THIS IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN..

I'm done with this nonsense..

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08-08-2007, 08:00 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
In fact, Fleury wasn't as good as Hossa either (yes, yes, I know he was tough and scored, but never a top 10 player)
Woah. That might be an overstatement right there.

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08-08-2007, 08:02 PM
  #125
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What is a hometown discount for Roszival?Two potential group III UFA defensemen next summer have already re-signed.Robyn Regher-5 years/$20 million and Kevin Bieksa-3 years/$11.25 million.Roszival's market is $3.5-$4 million per.That is no hometown discount for a player who two years ago today was sitting in the Czech Republic with no NHL contract.He had two NHL offers that summer-the Rangers and Vancouver.The Rangers gave him an opportunity to get his career back on track after Pittsburgh didn't give a QO.The Rangers rewarded him after his first season with a two year contract worth $4.2 million.The Rangers have been good to Roszival

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