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Its time to get rid of violence in professional sports

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Old
03-10-2004, 11:50 AM
  #1
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Its time to get rid of violence in professional sports

hey everyone, well as we all know, there was a huge incident involving Bert and Moore, and it is incredibly shameful that such display has taken place. Bertuzzi deserves to have his career compromised because of that, and he should suffer any consequences a criminal act such as this one deserves. him feeling sorry wont change the fact that he passed to the act, now its time to face the music and deal with your mistakes. I think it is time that violence in hockey be reprimended entirely. If u guys have ever watched soccer, u will see taht there is absolutely no fighting, or hitting in that sport, and it doesnt ruin it in any way whatsoever. If a player is charged for any kind of violence, he gets suspended for a couple games OR for the entire season. even a slap to the head is frowned upon. If u have ever watched european hockey, its all about skills, the guys there arent trying to hack each others heads off...professional sport players are adults, grown men(and sometimes women) and they should act accordingly. when i watch a hockey game, im not watching it to see two guys go at it, if i want to do that, ill watch boxing or the UFC or something. its sad to see how blood seems to attract more people then the actual sport. fighting is not part of the game, contrary to popular belief. if the refering got more severe, trust me, there would no longer be a need of an enforcer on a team, and wed stop having to watch skilless players trying to hurt someone. if you give me the excuse that it helps to wake up a team cuz they are not doing anything, well thats just dumb. if ur team is getting beaten cuz theyre not really doing anything, then they deserver to lose, period. i say its time people started becoming more civilized, its not the middle ages anymore and fighting has to go. if bert doesnt get suied or ends up doing jail time for this, then it severly damages the image of the sport, but if he does get time, it will also put back into questioning how far violence has gone in this sport, which may then force teh league to opt to a no fighting rule. anyway, thats my two cents

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03-10-2004, 11:56 AM
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I don't see the connection between fighting and the Bertuzzi incident. You can't eliminate violence from the game because you can't control the players' actions. Bertuzzi will be suspended as he should be, but other than that I don't know what else you can do. It's a rough sport, tempers get up and incidents happen. They always have and they always will.

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03-10-2004, 12:02 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habber
I don't see the connection between fighting and the Bertuzzi incident. You can't eliminate violence from the game because you can't control the players' actions. Bertuzzi will be suspended as he should be, but other than that I don't know what else you can do. It's a rough sport, tempers get up and incidents happen. They always have and they always will.
i dont see how that changes the fact that violence should be eliminated from the sport. just cuz ur getting passionate and ur temper is flarring doesnt give u the right to smash someone. u should get passionate when u play ur sport, but u should channel it into something productive, like scoring a goal or something. not to fight someone. if ur not in control of ur emotions, and u lose control, then u should pay for it, by getting suspended, fined or just banned. like i said, if u watch any other sport, especially football, the guys hit each other (which is okay btw, and so is a clean body check) but anything else should not be. i wished the league would start to be more active in eliminating the problems the nhl is suffering from, hooking and bad refereing.

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03-10-2004, 12:21 PM
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Wouache, pas de bagarre au hockey! Le hockey c'est un sport intense pis c'est ça qui fait sa beauté, ça se joue dans la tête et l'intimidation est toujours une bonne arme contre un adversaire, mais oui, il y a des personnes qui dépasse les bornes bien évidemment, comme dans tout...et les fans veulent ça, même toi et vient pas me dire le contraire je serais bien étonné d'apprendre que quand quelqu'un droppe les gants à la télé tu change de poste.

Des fois l'intensité va trop loin mais ça se règle toujours sur la glace on a jamais entendu parler de joueur qui est allé en fauché un autre avec son char dans le parking non? Sean Avery, 200 quelques minute de pénalité, il a fait des cross check dans la face à un autre joueur ya un ou deux mois, on parle pas ben ben de cet incident là...pis il n'y a pas eu d'enquete là dessus, pis je suis sur qu'il fera jamais de prison pour ça.

Le hockey pas d'intensité c'est comme du Baseball pas de baton, ou du Golf pas de balle, ou du Soccer pas de ballon, ou le concour du méchant million sans Mélanie Gagné.


PS: :p

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03-10-2004, 12:25 PM
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If you're talking about eliminating violence from the sport, then you're talking about eliminating bodychecking as well.

Heck, maybe we should ban pucks and sticks as well. The potential for injury is relatively high if the NHL allows pucks to be flying around the rink at such high speeds, and sticks can be used as weapons.

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03-10-2004, 12:26 PM
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I have a lot of thoughts about your post but the first that comes to mind is that you refer to soccer where agreed, the players don't fight. The fans do to the point where they are denied entry into countries and civilized countries like England have been banned from int'l. competitions. If you really want to affect the level of violence in sports, get up and walk away when the fight starts or change the channel. They won't try and sell what you don't want to buy. Be vocal about encouraging your kids to play a different sport if you don't like the hockey culture.Fighting in hockey has always been accepted because it gave a type of accountability to the players. If you crossed the line, wherever that line is, you would have to drop the gloves and back it up. Somewhere that changed and what used to be a small part of the game became more. I like watching a hockey fight when it's a release to events in the heat of the battle. Sending out 2 guys who can't play the game , whose job it is to line up against each other, agree to drop the gloves and then go at it, was never a part of hockey until the 70's. Even then, the Flyer tough guys could play the game at the NHL level. i've never been for eliminating fighting, as I like the self policing idea. As already said, Cooke challenged Moore, Moore answered the challenge, it should have been the end of the story.

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03-10-2004, 12:39 PM
  #7
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It is Bertuzzi and only Bertuzzi's fault for what happened to Moore. Like soccer, hockey doesn't allow sucker punch like that. What can soccer do if a soccer player sucker punch the other? Simply that player should be banned and soccer - the sport - has nothing to do with it.

Indeed NHL should ban Bertuzzi FOR LIFE for what he has done. There is no place in hockey that allows violence like that.

Hockey rules!

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03-10-2004, 01:05 PM
  #8
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You have some good points, but I am entirely against all of them. I think violence in sports is great and should be kept. This debate is similar to that of sex on TV and in films. What you gotta understand is that we have 2 dominant instincs, sex and violence. We have to channel them in some way and Hockey does that admirably. Hockey fans are not nearly as violent as soccer fans, if you've ever been to Europe, you'd know what I mean. My family's seen people getting rocks thrown at them and such. Fights are plentyfull yet its probably the wussiest sport in the world and I believe thats why fans become so passionate and have to channel their frustration. It's even to a point where English fans can't even seat with the opposition's fans.

Besides, violent people will always stay that way, violence or not in their respective sports. Ever seen Italy vs Argentina in the '80s? If not, then you've missed one hell of a delibarate kick on a players neck(and more, they were really out to get them). Did you know players have been shot and killed during live games? We all NEED violence, its no secret, some less then others but theres nothing worst then keeping it inside(le refouler).

Controlled violence is not bad, its when you get cheap shots like Bertuzzi's that it becomes a problem, but like I've pointed it out, every sport has them. Even Baseball, you think it doesnt hurt to recieve a 100mph ball on you? There have been many attempts to injure that way, or with the spikes of your shoes from a slide.

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03-10-2004, 01:05 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
It is Bertuzzi and only Bertuzzi's fault for what happened to Moore. Like soccer, hockey doesn't allow sucker punch like that. What can soccer do if a soccer player sucker punch the other? Simply that player should be banned and soccer - the sport - has nothing to do with it.

Indeed NHL should ban Bertuzzi FOR LIFE for what he has done. There is no place in hockey that allows violence like that.

Hockey rules!
by that logic ban mclaren, marchment, mscorly and brashear for what he caused on friday...............

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03-10-2004, 02:14 PM
  #10
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If you don't like the " Violent " NHL, watch european hockey.....oh wait, there's more stick work over there.

If you don't like it, don't watch. The game is fine except we need more scoring and a no-touch icing.

This is one incident of many that have happened in the history of the game.

Maybe we should take the violence out so we can make it more lady-like, like the NFL or MLB.....oh wait, there's violence there too.

There's violence, in someone's opinon, in everything.

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Old
03-10-2004, 03:53 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolin_goon
If u guys have ever watched soccer, u will see taht there is absolutely no fighting, or hitting in that sport, and it doesnt ruin it in any way whatsoever. If a player is charged for any kind of violence, he gets suspended for a couple games OR for the entire season. even a slap to the head is frowned upon. If u have ever watched european hockey, its all about skills, the guys there arent trying to hack each others heads off...professional sport players are adults, grown men(and sometimes women) and they should act accordingly. when i watch a hockey game, im not watching it to see two guys go at it, if i want to do that, ill watch boxing or the UFC or something. time people started becoming more civilized, its not the middle ages anymore and fighting has to go. thats my two cents
Where exactly is it written that fighting has no place in hockey? Is that simply your opinion? I think fighting is fun to watch and I'm glad it's a part of hockey . Call me uncivilized, barbaric ,whatever . The fact that you mention UFC and/or Boxing in the same breath as stating that violence should be eliminated from sport poses a very paradoxal idealogy don't you think?
Furthermore , If fighting is eliminated from hockey I firmly believe that the cheap shots would increase . To support this? Since the Instigator penalty was introduced to the NHL have a look at the high-sticking and roughing penalties . You will see that the Instigator may be a deterrant for fighting however fighting is a deterrant of cheap shots.

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03-10-2004, 04:17 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
You have some good points, but I am entirely against all of them. I think violence in sports is great and should be kept. This debate is similar to that of sex on TV and in films. What you gotta understand is that we have 2 dominant instincs, sex and violence. We have to channel them in some way and Hockey does that admirably. Hockey fans are not nearly as violent as soccer fans, if you've ever been to Europe, you'd know what I mean. My family's seen people getting rocks thrown at them and such. Fights are plentyfull yet its probably the wussiest sport in the world and I believe thats why fans become so passionate and have to channel their frustration. It's even to a point where English fans can't even seat with the opposition's fans.

Besides, violent people will always stay that way, violence or not in their respective sports. Ever seen Italy vs Argentina in the '80s? If not, then you've missed one hell of a delibarate kick on a players neck(and more, they were really out to get them). Did you know players have been shot and killed during live games? We all NEED violence, its no secret, some less then others but theres nothing worst then keeping it inside(le refouler).

Controlled violence is not bad, its when you get cheap shots like Bertuzzi's that it becomes a problem, but like I've pointed it out, every sport has them. Even Baseball, you think it doesnt hurt to recieve a 100mph ball on you? There have been many attempts to injure that way, or with the spikes of your shoes from a slide.
Excellent post!

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03-10-2004, 04:19 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolin_goon
i dont see how that changes the fact that violence should be eliminated from the sport. just cuz ur getting passionate and ur temper is flarring doesnt give u the right to smash someone. u should get passionate when u play ur sport, but u should channel it into something productive, like scoring a goal or something. not to fight someone. if ur not in control of ur emotions, and u lose control, then u should pay for it, by getting suspended, fined or just banned. like i said, if u watch any other sport, especially football, the guys hit each other (which is okay btw, and so is a clean body check) but anything else should not be. i wished the league would start to be more active in eliminating the problems the nhl is suffering from, hooking and bad refereing.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

If you lose control, you do pay for it by getting suspended. You can say "u should" all you want, but the fact remains you can't eliminate these incidents.

What exactly do you want eliminated and how do you propose to do it?

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03-10-2004, 04:27 PM
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I think the league is partly responsible....

for these types of incidences. True, Bertuzzi acted stupidly and he could've punished Moore CLEANLY for 60 min insted of sucker punching him, I believe the league needs to look ahead on the schedule when dealing out suspensions of this nature. I don't know if Moore was suspended for his hit, but if he was and got 1 or 2 games say, what good is that when he's allowed to come back and play against the team who wants revenge 2 weeks later? What the hell did the league think would happen? I think the league needs to come up with suspensions that will prevent guys from playing the team that they committed an act against. At least when the 2 teams play again within the same month the infraction occured. I mean, hell, it's like putting a murderer alone in the same room as the victims family and expecting the family to behave! Even if Bertuzzi had kept it clean, he still could have injured Moore and got off a lot easier. My point is you can't put guys like that on the ice together so soon after. Let things cool down first!

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03-10-2004, 04:28 PM
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Hockey is a physical sport, and fighting is apart of that, fighting has been in hockey since the beginning...and it holds a important piece.

Fighting does two things

1) Enables players to police themselves...This whole thing would have never happened had the instigator rule never been implemented.

2) No single act in hockey can change the pace of a game then a emotion filled fight, it can rally your team.

Hockey NEEDS to get rid of that stupid instigator penalty. It is the dumbest rule change in the history of hockey...IMO

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03-10-2004, 04:30 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku
I think violence in sports is great and should be kept. This debate is similar to that of sex on TV and in films.
Even if I agree that violence, to some degree, can be exciting to watch in an hockey game, I think that your comparison is dead wrong and fallacious. If you want to make a comparison, don't compare apples and oranges:

1. Violence that is shown in the movies is faked, nobody is really supposed to suffer from it. The point is that in hockey, it is for real, the guys are in pain, therefore the comparison can't be made.

2. If you talk about the violence in the news, well, this kind of violence is usually shown in a specific context being that these acts are illegal and shouldn't be made (this includes war, IMO). And even there, unless you listen to some very crappy and sensasionalists news report, you won't see that much violence either.

3. Sex has nothing to do with it. Sex is seen as immoral by some puritans and violence is just seen as useless by people who actually thinks about people who are on the ice. They might be paid for it but it doesn't prevent it from being stupid.

4. Sex isn't shown on prime time tv and it is very likely that this sex will have been faked anyways.

I could go on but I think that is enough to make my point; this argument that you brought was freakin' poor...


Overall, I would agree that a good, hard and clean bodycheck is entertaining and that sometimes a fight can be fun.

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03-10-2004, 04:42 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwang
for these types of incidences. True, Bertuzzi acted stupidly and he could've punished Moore CLEANLY for 60 min insted of sucker punching him, I believe the league needs to look ahead on the schedule when dealing out suspensions of this nature. I don't know if Moore was suspended for his hit, but if he was and got 1 or 2 games say, what good is that when he's allowed to come back and play against the team who wants revenge 2 weeks later? What the hell did the league think would happen? I think the league needs to come up with suspensions that will prevent guys from playing the team that they committed an act against. At least when the 2 teams play again within the same month the infraction occured. I mean, hell, it's like putting a murderer alone in the same room as the victims family and expecting the family to behave! Even if Bertuzzi had kept it clean, he still could have injured Moore and got off a lot easier. My point is you can't put guys like that on the ice together so soon after. Let things cool down first!
You can't keep players apart that are mad at each other. By that logic you'd have to suspend a guy from playing that team ever again.

And btw, Moore didn't get suspended, NHL ruled it was a clean hit.(which it was IMO)

And again btw, this was Vancouver and Colorado's 2nd meeting since the hit.

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Old
03-10-2004, 06:06 PM
  #18
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All contact sports have some sort of inherent violence, and understood risk, but there are incidents that go above and beyond that, which need to be handled more severely.

Under some circumstances like Bertuzzi and McSorely, it is simply no one else's fault except those individuals. They made a stupid stupid decision, and that is what it was, a decision, to intentially hurt someone way out of the context of the game. What is the league supposed to do, give Bertuzzi a stupid test. They can do all they want, stress respect, punish people all they want, but there will always be someone somewhere who just doesn't get it.

All leagues can do for a physical sport like hockey is create the safest environment possible, but someone will always compromise it, that is simply being human.

The instigator rule doesn't work well, but when Bertuzzi does what he does, that trumps any rule or law.

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03-11-2004, 05:58 AM
  #19
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You are just overreacting the way many american news oultet are. I am going to finish post when I get back home tonight.

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03-11-2004, 12:13 PM
  #20
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ok, lets get this cleared up people. i agree to a clean body check against the holder of the puck, thats another way for a less skilled player to strip the holder of the former. but fighting should not necessarely be part of the game. like i said, people seem to think that its part of the game, whereas it was never meant to be. and again, like i said, i dont give a **** about how angry u are at the other guy, cuz thats losing control, its okay to be passionate, but a different story to let passion overule common sense. if a player would get suspended for a season if he were to pose any such gesture (ie: fighting, intent to injure, instigator etc) im sure that would make pretty much all the players think twice about passing to the act. u wanna play stupid? be sure that u can deal with the consequences... i think that with better refereing, more strict punishments, the game would benefit a lot from it, cuz then ud stop seing stupid scraps that give the sport a bad name. i dont know if u guys ever noticed, but hockey players arent the brightest people in the world...and usually when ur big and stupid, using ur brain isnt ur first thought...im glad bert is gonna pay the price for his stupidity. the fact that he's a star player is all the better, cuz at least now we know that nobody is safe. i wanna see goals being scored, amazing saves, nice plays, not blood. if i wanted to do that, it'd watch cable tv.

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03-11-2004, 12:55 PM
  #21
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Professional sports have a lot of other problems besides violence in the games, bad as it is. Athletes get arrested for drug use, ra**, abuse of wives, gun possession, etc. There's an ugly situation concerning steroids. Was Bertuzzi's action the result of steroid rage?

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03-11-2004, 12:55 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolin_goon
ok, lets get this cleared up people. i agree to a clean body check against the holder of the puck, thats another way for a less skilled player to strip the holder of the former. but fighting should not necessarely be part of the game. like i said, people seem to think that its part of the game, whereas it was never meant to be.

Exactly where is it written that fighting is not part of the game ?
Have you ever seen a season without a fight ?
Do you not find it strange that a League would have a rulebook which includes measures to penalize people for fighting if it was never supposed to happen anyway? If this were the case then the rulebook would have to include penalties for beastial sex and murder because they aren't part of hockey either.
What is the point ?you may ask , simple.....if something is in the rulebook it's because that "something" exists ...fighting in hockey exists.

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03-11-2004, 03:20 PM
  #23
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i know fighting is in the rulebook buddy. and when hockey was conceived, it sure wasnt created with fighting in mind. it just became a staple in the sport cuz of people who had no other skills but fighting started playing. did u ever notice that the guys who fight arent the ones who score goals? do u see koivu, dimitra, gonchar, hossa, naslund fight? no. cuz they have players on the team that do only that. imagine a time where all players on the team would be players that can score goals..hockey would be so much more exciting. there would be less stopage of plays cuz the players would be accentuated to score goals and not to fight each other. fighting is not the problem itself, but it's what leads to the problem, when things get out of hand. like i said, were all grown men, and it's just plain silly to fight over something. especially a hockey game. i wont beat up my co worker cuz he/she speaks behind my back, or even harasses me at work. there are smarter ways of dealing with that...seeing as how sometimes the repercusions to ur stupidity catches up with ya...it's a shame that people dont see this....and im sorry buddy, but about the drugs and sex and whatever, that's outside the sport, it happens everyday, with any other average joe, it seems more "controversial" in the sports cuz the people in question are "stars". i know that there are problems everywhere, but when u know where the source is, and u know u can do something about it, why not get to it? and btw, fighting is ok in hockey for the sole reason that it sells. we all know violence sells, it's very rarely necessary, but it sells...

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