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Bertuzzi Suspencion Verdict Is In

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Old
03-11-2004, 01:39 PM
  #51
montreal
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Originally Posted by Corey
Sorry, but vicious hits to the head are in a category by themself. They can kill or cause brain damage. You can go through life with a gimpy knee, bad as that is to a professional athlete.

No kidding. That's my freaking point. McLaren could have killed Zednik. The nose is one of the easiest bones to break and it can kill you, yet he got 2 games.

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03-11-2004, 01:48 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost # 1
Yes it is a shame that a young athlete broke 2 verterbrae in the incident... And in this scenario, you can only wish a speedy recovery. In the same breath, accidents do happen... Bert did try and start something, but what wound up happening, seemed like he did not expect Steve to fall after the punch, and braced for impact (as I've said, it looked accidental to me... But everything must be villified nowadays...) Every one wants to believe this is malicious... Yes Todd deserved a suspension, and a long one (reg season... 14 games is long) but IMO I don't think Todd swung his hand saying "I wanna break his neck" no matter how many reports of previous comments about the original incident are tredged up.
Agreed. And also agree with the point Montreal is making.

When you look at the initial incident which was Bertuzzi punching Moore in the head, it wasn't really that bad. There has been far worse incidents in the past but they just didn't result in the same type of damage. Look at Havlat a few weeks ago, he aggresively swung his stick into the face of another player, but the player didn't get knocked out or severely injured so he only got a few games.

Initially, which is worse, a punch to the side of the head or a two-hander to the face? It's just very unfortunate that Moore got knocked out and fell on his head, but lots of other infractions have been just as, or more vicous and recieved minor suspensions because no injury occured.

If the NHL is serious about cleaning up the game, they have to deal with every case with severity and look at the initial intent, not the result.

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Old
03-11-2004, 01:49 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
Bertuzzi is either confessing he didn't know what he was doing or he's trying to soften the punishment to himself. I wasn't impressed by his public appearance. He has a history. He's concerned more about himself than about Moore.


Ya... Todd Faked it... A personal media address after unsuccessfully trying to get ahold of him, that led to tears from a guy who never waivered from being a tough guy is all for himself... 'cause a 'GOOD' guy can't make a mistake in judgement in the heat of a battle... Cause NHL competition NEVER gets heated... Get over your morality check buddy, and realize that there are incidents that are grey in the world... Just because you feel that a DECENT AND PROPER civilian would never engage in such shenanigans...



Wake up. Sorry to break your technicolour world... but there's a whole lotta grey than there is black and white.

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03-11-2004, 01:58 PM
  #54
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There are three bottom lines here.

1. Bertuzzi stepped way over the line and deserved far more than a slap on the wrist. His intentional premeditated actions led to a severe injury. This wasn't in the heat of the moment in a fast moving game with lots of incidental physical contact and body checking. He stalked him and received some just punishment.

2. The NHL's credibility was on the line, they were essentially backed into the corner by the North American media. Never have I seen one incident on-ice stir such a media frenzy as this one did and still is. Yeah, maybe Bert is a bit of a scapegoat here, but the NHL head office has to finally send a message that all this intent to injure stuff is just not the fibre from which this league is made. They better not stop at just this action, nail the first little wuss who swings his stick at someone's melon with reckless abandon.

3. The Vancouver Police? Aren't they better off trying to catch serial killing pig farmers, cleaning up all the inter-racial gang stuff, slowing down the heroin and other drug trade in from the far east, and cleaning up the drug problems down East Hastings (a block or so away from their Headquarters at Hastings and Main). C'mon, don't get caught up in the media frenzy.

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Old
03-11-2004, 02:04 PM
  #55
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There's a tremendous difference between spontaneous violence and premeditated violence. Bertuuzzi entered the game with the intention of injuring Moore. That makes all the difference in the world. Yes, there are knee-on-knee hits and elbowing, but that doesn't mean they were planned in advance. Bertuzzi clearly planned it. His bawling doesn't mean beans. I've seen such emotional reactions at criminal trials. Bertuzzi is sorry for himself, that's all.

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03-11-2004, 02:05 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal
My whole problem is that the NHL lets BS stuff go with a slap on the wrist. We can't say for sure, but maybe if the NHL was tougher on cheap shots (which happen often) this may have been avoided.

I just don't agree with being so harsh on Bert yet Marchment, McLaren and others get nothing.
Bertuzzi's attack on Moore was widely considered revenge for a check that Moore issued on Canucks captain Markus Naslund in a Feb. 16 encounter.

"In light of numerous player comments about Mr. Moore following the Vancouver-Colorado game of Feb. 16,..." This, I expect, refers to May's explicit threat and Bertuzzi's implicit threat against Moore - premeditation.

"Mr. Bertuzzi pursued Mr. Moore on the ice, attempting to engage him in a confrontation," Campbell said in the statement.

"When Mr. Moore declined to engage Mr. Bertuzzi, Mr. Bertuzzi responded by delivering a gloved punch from behind to the side of Mr. Moore's head, rendering him unconscious. Upon falling to the ice, Mr. Moore suffered additional serious injuries. We want to make clear that this type of conduct will not be tolerated in the NHL."

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The major difference between the McSorely, McLaren incidents and the Bertuzzi one is the weeks of premeditation on Bertuzzi's part. He publicly stated that Moore wouldn't play past March and he delivered - and the NHL delivered a severe sentence as a result.

I think the NHL was quite kind to Bertuzzi by stating that Moore fell to the ice rather than stating that Bertuzzi slammed Moore's head into the ice - which, as I saw it, he did.

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Old
03-11-2004, 02:16 PM
  #57
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When I looked at my buddy when watching the game, I said Bertuzzi was done for the year at least, turns out I was correct.

Frankly the league had no other choice. This was a premeditated attack that caused severe damage.

When you stalk a guy, grab his jersey and pull him back, sucker punch him, then ram his head into the ice, and still try to continue to pummel him, this goes way and above anything most of us have seen. You can't compare it to McSorely, you can't compare it to Matt Johnson.

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Old
03-11-2004, 02:21 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost # 1


Ya... Todd Faked it... A personal media address after unsuccessfully trying to get ahold of him, that led to tears from a guy who never waivered from being a tough guy is all for himself... 'cause a 'GOOD' guy can't make a mistake in judgement in the heat of a battle... Cause NHL competition NEVER gets heated... Get over your morality check buddy, and realize that there are incidents that are grey in the world... Just because you feel that a DECENT AND PROPER civilian would never engage in such shenanigans...



Wake up. Sorry to break your technicolour world... but there's a whole lotta grey than there is black and white.

While I think Todd was generally shook up by the outcome to Moore, his comments were not truthful which makes people question his honestly in his apology. Todd said he didn't mean to hurt him, BS, he said he was going to do it, and you don't stalk a guy up ice and sucker punch them then drive their head in the ice if you don't mean to hurt him. He said he wasn't this type of player, again, BS, he got suspended 10 games for leaving the bench to go after a guy, and he also smashed an AVs player's head in the ice a few years ago in the playoffs.

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Old
03-11-2004, 02:22 PM
  #59
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The NHL can certainly do a lot to clean up its act. If you don't like these incidents, don't let Clarke and Hitchcock off scott free for their threats the other day. Act when May speaks of a bounty on Moore. Let the coaches know that they are responsible for the actions of their team. The media didn't help the situation, in fact they helped ratchet up the pressure. Everyone bears responsibility.

OK, I believe the above. But Ghost, what does an apology mean other than 'please let me off the hook'. When my kids apologize to me or I do to my wife, 90% of the time it means please don't be pissed anymore. Bertuzzi, unlike Mclaren, went out of his way to do this, it wasn't a reaction. To give him the benefit of the doubt would be to ignore his track record. My understanding of his disciplinary history is as follows. In Midget he followed and pounded on the oppositions bus in the parking lot after a loss. He was young give him a break. In Jr., he rec'd a 15 game suspension for kicking a player. The next year he attacked teammate Jeff Oneill in the dressing room. Why ? I have no idea. As an Islander he was suspended for inadvertently abusing n official. A few years back he rec'd. an automatic 10 game suspension for returning to the ice to join a fight. Maybe a noble gesture but a less than intelligent one. Yeah, I know sometimes in the heat of the moment... Now we have this incident. I guess I'd have to disagre with Bertuzzi when he says that he isn't that type of player because it appears that like a lot of people, he has difficulty with self control. If any of my facts are incorrect, let me know, I'm repeating a list I heard on the radio while travelling today. While the sports world likes to believe that they can police themselves, it appears that they have just about surrendered that right.

Montreal, I respect your opinion, I don't agree though, there is a line between tough play and what happened.

NWT, I agree that the BC police can spend their time on a lot more pressing matters, but I have a hard time seeing how they can walk away on this one.

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Old
03-11-2004, 02:28 PM
  #60
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What Bertuzzi did was shameful but I agree with Burke when he said the media over-vilified him. They are making him a scapegoat for all the violent acts that went unpunished over the last few years. Yes, Bertuzzi deserves his suspension but to say this is worse then what Clarke did to that Russian guy is a joke. Bertuzzi wanted to teach Moore a lesson, not to take him out for the season or end his career. Clarke went out to purposely injure another player (at the behest of John Ferguson) and did just that… and now some people applaud that as a heroic act.

Now, there are a few negatives that come out of Bertuzzi’s situation:

If Bertuzzi didn’t receive a suspension you’d bet other players would think twice about trying to take out start players and running them purposely. Moore didn’t receive any penalty for taking out Naslund in what was in my opinion, a dirty hit… he leaned into Naslund with the shoulder. Now, Moore didn’t deserve to be injured in the way he was but he did deserve a good flogging. Bertuzzi just went a bit overboard… well, let’s just say if Moore wasn’t injured we wouldn’t be hearing so much about this. It was a retaliation gone wrong and because of that Bertuzzi has to pay for his actions. You can’t get off a charge because you didn’t “intend” to injure somebody… he injured Moore and that’s that.

Now that the league has punished Bertuzzi for what he did they need to take actions to ensure that players like Moore don’t get themselves into situation where they are the targets of retaliatory attacks. Players need to learn to respect one another and the league needs to enforce this. They need to hand out suspensions for every dirty hit, every cheap shot and anything that breaks the rules set out by the NHL or else all of this will be useless.

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Old
03-11-2004, 02:35 PM
  #61
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Now let's see what the criminal justice system does with Mr. Bertuzzi for his premeditated assault.

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Old
03-11-2004, 02:42 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
Now let's see what the criminal justice system does with Mr. Bertuzzi for his premeditated assault.
They should take care of the real problems in Vancouver, and I know that because I live there!

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03-11-2004, 02:49 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
The NHL can certainly do a lot to clean up its act. If you don't like these incidents, don't let Clarke and Hitchcock off scott free for their threats the other day. Act when May speaks of a bounty on Moore.
Agree 100% that explicit and implicit threats of revenge or retribution should be dealt with severely - especially when coming from management.

Quote:
Let the coaches know that they are responsible for the actions of their team.
After fining the Canucks $250,000 I think the NHL just did. But suspensions for coaches and management should be in order when those threats come to fruition - it proves they're not in control of their team.

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03-11-2004, 02:55 PM
  #64
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That is BS! Way too long.......10, 12, 15 games OK, 250K OK, but more than that is overkill, they're just hurting the Nucks fans. If the league had not taken out the instigator rule this would not have happened. Remember Moore didn't even get a penalty for his ugly hit to the head on Nasland. It was not the right thing to hit 6'02" 205 lbs. Moore from behind, but I'm sure if he had just fought Bert (watch the game Todd challenged him 6 times) it would have been over with...

It is just another example of the NHL being re-active opposed to pro-active, nobody wins here, a very good hockey player will not play for his fans for God knows how long, another player is lying in a hospital bed with a long recovery ahead.....The NHL should look a little deeper into this case to find how this stupidity can be avioded in the future so that fans and players can enjoy thier game.

Thanks. Go Habs

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Old
03-11-2004, 03:06 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJCOLLINS
That is BS! Way too long.......10, 12, 15 games OK, 250K OK, but more than that is overkill, they're just hurting the Nucks fans. If the league had not taken out the instigator rule this would not have happened. Remember Moore didn't even get a penalty for his ugly hit to the head on Nasland. It was not the right thing to hit 6'02" 205 lbs. Moore from behind, but I'm sure if he had just fought Bert (watch the game Todd challenged him 6 times) it would have been over with...

It is just another example of the NHL being re-active opposed to pro-active, nobody wins here, a very good hockey player will not play for his fans for God knows how long, another player is lying in a hospital bed with a long recovery ahead.....The NHL should look a little deeper into this case to find how this stupidity can be avioded in the future so that fans and players can enjoy thier game.

Thanks. Go Habs

Who gives a rats ass about Canuck fans, Bertuzzi didn't, so why should the league in this case.

AGAIN FOR PROBABLY THE TWO ZILLIONTH TIME, MOORES HIT WAS CLEAN. MARKUS NASLUND, YOU KNOW THE GUY WHO HE HIT, ADMITTED IT WAS CLEAN. IT DOESN'T GET ANYMORE CLEAR.

And yes lets blame Moore for not fighting Bertuzzi, and that justifes a broken neck and a concussion. Am i missing something here.

No amount of rules the league imposes will stop these events from transpiring. It happens in sports and in everyday life. One individual by their own conscious decisions can trump any rule.

Put the blame where it lies, only one person could have prevented this situation quickly and efficiently, and fortunately for the rest of the league, that player won't see ice for awhile.

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Old
03-11-2004, 03:13 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
Who gives a rats ass about Canuck fans, Bertuzzi didn't, so why should the league in this case.

AGAIN FOR PROBABLY THE TWO ZILLIONTH TIME, MOORES HIT WAS CLEAN. MARKUS NASLUND, YOU KNOW THE GUY WHO HE HIT, ADMITTED IT WAS CLEAN. IT DOESN'T GET ANYMORE CLEAR.

And yes lets blame Moore for not fighting Bertuzzi, and that justifes a broken neck and a concussion. Am i missing something here.

No amount of rules the league imposes will stop these events from transpiring. It happens in sports and in everyday life. One individual by their own conscious decisions can trump any rule.

Put the blame where it lies, only one person could have prevented this situation quickly and efficiently, and fortunately for the rest of the league, that player won't see ice for awhile.
You have obviously never played the game at any level above ringett...Moore's hit was NOT clean!

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03-11-2004, 04:57 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJCOLLINS
You have obviously never played the game at any level above ringett...Moore's hit was NOT clean!

Wow, now you are an all seeing God who knows my hockey past, and better yet, you know the game better than Markus Naslund. Do you remember him, the guy who was hit admitted it was clean, it doesn't get anymore clear than that. Was there an elbow, NO. Did he use his shoulder yes. Naslund got caught with his head down, reaching for the puck at centre ice and Moore finished his check. Tell us all oh wise one, what makes the hit dirty, and tell us whose opinion is not better on this subject than Naslund himself.

And I loves this, when one can't think of an argument, you make a baseless statement with no proof and try to make it personal. Thanks for the difficult debate.

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Old
03-11-2004, 05:25 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by #44_delivers
wow thats harsh but fair

he might also have civil hearing too if the investigetion grants it.

not good times for mr. bertuzzi the cunucks organization and most importantly mr. moore.

It's not that harsh I was expecting this all the way , now I want to know if he will be suspended next year (I hope at least 40-45 games) ... why not suspenD him for as long as Moore will recover ? or just suspend him 1 year ... I don't care if he have cried on tv , yes he is sorry , but the damage is done , so you pay for your action , superstar or 4th line player , bottom line. If it would have been souray who did that , I would have support the decision ALL THE WAY. I don't want a guy to be kill on the ice .. Even if people will bring the instigator rule and the NO penalty when steve moore hurt naslund , Bertuzzi did what he did and that's it.

Why would I care if it hurts the Canucks organisation because bertuzzi won't play for them in the playoffs ? As far as I know , the guy that is more hurt right now is Moore and we should be worry about him , not about an organisation. Moore got several injury and could have been in a wheelchair if he's spinal column would have been broke , so it is a fair suspension for now

It was a sucker wussy attack ... If you want to destroy a guy , destroy him face to face at least he will be able to defend himself.


Last edited by HabsBaby18: 03-11-2004 at 05:39 PM.
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Old
03-11-2004, 05:30 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJCOLLINS
You have obviously never played the game at any level above ringett...Moore's hit was NOT clean!
I play hockey and let me tell you the hit was clean. He was going for a hit, it was Naslund who lowered himself down, it's his fault, when you check someone, you dont start checking where you must hit to hurt your opponent, if you do, you use your elbows, sticks, or you can hit him from behind with a suckerpunch.

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Old
03-11-2004, 05:39 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel the great!
I play hockey and let me tell you the hit was clean. He was going for a hit, it was Naslund who lowered himself down, it's his fault, when you check someone, you dont start checking where you must hit to hurt your opponent, if you do, you use your elbows, sticks, or you can hit him from behind with a suckerpunch.
Agreed. Moore was just finishing his check. Naslund was the one who lowered his head and put himself in a vulnerable position. There wasn't any way Moore could have predicted Naslund was going to do that and there wasn't any time for him to stop.

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03-11-2004, 06:06 PM
  #71
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Pfft... Naslund had his head down, he got cranked... Plain and simple.

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03-11-2004, 08:00 PM
  #72
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I have a question.

How many games would Bertuzzi would had been suspended IF the incident would had occur, let's say, during the 12th game of the season instead of the 70th ?

Dou you think he would had been suspended for the REMAINING of the season ?

I think it was easy for the NHL to suspend him for the rest of the season (only 12 games) and the play-offs (minimum 4, who knows if the canucks would had won one game anyway - to a maximum of 28 for the whole play-offs).

For me, the NHL SHOULD had specify a precise number of games suspension, and show to everybody how much it will really cost to loose control and intentionnaly injure another player.

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03-11-2004, 10:25 PM
  #73
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A whole bunch of people fail to gain my sympathy:

Todd Bertuzzi
Mark Crawford
Brian Burke
The Vancouver Canucks fans
The fans on this forum who defend Bertuzzi

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03-11-2004, 10:29 PM
  #74
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He got way too much, this is ridiculous.

Every other players who did the same only got an average of 12 matchs.

Gotta have to thank the media for this one!
What, sucker punching someone and then driving their head to the ground? I don't believe that has ever happened.

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03-11-2004, 10:37 PM
  #75
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Barry Melrose:

But while removing Bertuzzi from the lineup changes everything about the Canucks, the league did the right thing in sitting him down until at least the beginning of next season. Colin Campbell and the rest of the NHL brass acted swiftly and decisively to send a message. This sets a precedent by telling players that crossing the line with their on-ice behavior is unacceptable, and it should be a good lesson for everyone.

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