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D'Agostini overrated by Habs Fans ? The Last Ranking and ratings

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Old
09-06-2007, 03:22 AM
  #1
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D'Agostini overrated by Habs Fans ? The Last Ranking and ratings

I was looking at the new comments and rank of HF toward Habs prospects... I notice that 6.5 D for D'Agostini was odd...

The new ranking:

1 Carey Price 8.0B

2 Andrei Kostitsyn 8.0C
3 Ryan McDonagh 8.0C

4 Alexei Emelin 7.5B
5 Kyle Chipchura 7.5B

6 Sergei Kostitsyn 7.5C
7 Mikhail Grabovsky 7.5C
8 Max Pacioretty 7.5C

9 Ryan O'Byrne 7.0C
10 Jaroslav Halak 7.0C
11 David Fischer 7.0C (Fallen a bit since the draft)

12 PK Subban 7.0D
13 Mathieu Carle 7.0D
14 Mathieu Aubin 7.0D
15 Corey Locke 7.0D

16 Maxim Lapierre 6.5C
17 Ben Maxwell 6.5C (ranked very low)
18 Ryan Russel 6.5C
19 Pavel Valentenko 6.5C
20 Cameron Cepek 6.5C

21 Konstantin Korneev 6.5D
22 Matt D'Agostini 6.5D

May be I was off the track, but I've watched around 12 regular season game of the Bulldogs + 10 of playoffs and I thought that he was good for a rookie with a good upside and potential in the NHL, I thought that he could become a great 3rd liner, could be the perfect third line in the future if everything world well with Pacioretty-Chipchura-D'Agostini ??

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09-06-2007, 05:43 AM
  #2
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While the rankings were changed for the prospects, I think the ratings were completely forgotten... cause IMO, D'Agostini is safer a prospect than Cepek, Russel, Aubin and even Locke at this point...

Anyway, overrated by Habs fans, or severly underrated by one hockeysfuture.com writer ?

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09-06-2007, 07:46 AM
  #3
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As a reminder, here's the HF rating system:

Traditional Realistic Potential Rating (1-10)
(a player's realistic potential ability):
10 - Generational talent -- a player for the ages, one who can do things with a puck that no other player would even contemplate doing. Very, very few players will be deserving of this rating, probably one per decade. Think Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Bobby Orr, maybe Sidney Crosby, but we'll see.

9 - Elite forward / defenseman / goaltender -- possesses the potential for greatness, a perennial All-Star throughout his career. Think Joe Sakic, Jeremy Roenick, Niklas Lidstrom, Rob Blake, Dominik Hasek, Martin Brodeur.

8 - First line forward / No. 2 defenseman / No. 1 goaltender -- players with definite skill that might be just a cut below elite status, but still possessing All-Star potential. Think Patrik Elias, Keith Tkachuk, Mattias Ohlund, Adam Foote, Sean Burke, Olaf Kolzig.

7 - Second line forward / No. 3-4 defenseman / journeyman No. 1 goaltender -- players not quite good enough to play on the top line or pairing on a regular basis, but still possessing enough talent to contribute offensively, defend with some authority, or competently play the goaltender's position for long stretches. Think Andrew Cassels, Jason Arnott, Darryl Sydor, Keith Carney, Dwayne Roloson, Jeff Hackett.

6 - Third line forward / No. 5-6 defenseman / Backup Goaltender -- generally speaking, players whose game is defensively-oriented, or whose abilities aren't quite good enough to land full-time duty on the 2nd line, top two defensive pairings, or the No. 1 goaltending position. Think Kris Draper, Stephanne Yelle, Igor Ulanov, Brad Lukowich, Jussi Markkanen, Manny Legace.


It's all projection and doesn't mean a whole lot. I mean, Carey Price rated 8B?? Everyone knows this guy has the potential to be an elite goaltender and should have a 9 easy. However, I think 6.5 for D'Agostini is fair.

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09-06-2007, 09:50 AM
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Like Fozz, I agree on the 6.5 for D'Agostini, personnaly, where it doesn't work for me is the letter part. I think he deserves at least a C. He's not the only prospect I have a problem with the letter assigned, but that is just my opinion...

Realistic Probability Rating (A-F)
(the player's realistic chances of achieving their potential):
A - All but guaranteed to reach potential - 100 percent metaphysical certitude that the player will play up to his abilities as noted by his potential rating. In this case, the potential rating is multiplied by 100 percent for depth chart purposes, signaling that the player is a lock to reach his given potential.

B - Should reach potential, could drop 1 rating - likely to reach potential, but may have a hole or two in his game that will keep him from reaching his full potential. The potential rating is multiplied by 90 percent for depth chart purposes, which indicates slightly less certainty about a player’s future performance.

C - May reach potential, could drop 2 ratings - has shown some flashes, but may ultimately not have what it takes to reach his potential. The potential rating is multiplied by 80 percent for depth chart purposes to show the uncertainty of a player reaching his potential.

D - Unlikely to reach potential, could drop 3 ratings - a player who has a chance to reach his potential but is unlikely to do so. The potential rating is multiplied by 70 percent for depth chart purposes, indicating that the player's potential is extremely fluid.

F - A player possessing little potential who has a mountain to climb just to reach the outermost boundary of that potential. The potential rating is multiplied by 50 percent depth chart purposes.

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Old
09-06-2007, 10:04 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
As a reminder, here's the HF rating system:

Traditional Realistic Potential Rating (1-10)
(a player's realistic potential ability):
10 - Generational talent -- a player for the ages, one who can do things with a puck that no other player would even contemplate doing. Very, very few players will be deserving of this rating, probably one per decade. Think Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Bobby Orr, maybe Sidney Crosby, but we'll see.

9 - Elite forward / defenseman / goaltender -- possesses the potential for greatness, a perennial All-Star throughout his career. Think Joe Sakic, Jeremy Roenick, Niklas Lidstrom, Rob Blake, Dominik Hasek, Martin Brodeur.

8 - First line forward / No. 2 defenseman / No. 1 goaltender -- players with definite skill that might be just a cut below elite status, but still possessing All-Star potential. Think Patrik Elias, Keith Tkachuk, Mattias Ohlund, Adam Foote, Sean Burke, Olaf Kolzig.

7 - Second line forward / No. 3-4 defenseman / journeyman No. 1 goaltender -- players not quite good enough to play on the top line or pairing on a regular basis, but still possessing enough talent to contribute offensively, defend with some authority, or competently play the goaltender's position for long stretches. Think Andrew Cassels, Jason Arnott, Darryl Sydor, Keith Carney, Dwayne Roloson, Jeff Hackett.

6 - Third line forward / No. 5-6 defenseman / Backup Goaltender -- generally speaking, players whose game is defensively-oriented, or whose abilities aren't quite good enough to land full-time duty on the 2nd line, top two defensive pairings, or the No. 1 goaltending position. Think Kris Draper, Stephanne Yelle, Igor Ulanov, Brad Lukowich, Jussi Markkanen, Manny Legace.


It's all projection and doesn't mean a whole lot. I mean, Carey Price rated 8B?? Everyone knows this guy has the potential to be an elite goaltender and should have a 9 easy. However, I think 6.5 for D'Agostini is fair.
Why is Carey Price only an 8.0. Isn't this guy supposed to be a franchise goaltender. The rankings given are only according to one guy's opinion or something. Carey hasn't proven enough at the lower levels yet maybe. I don't get it. And there are goaltenders with a higher rating.

Anyways in D'Ago's case, I think the 6.5 is warranted. It's the D in his case that's a bit low. This writer doesn't think he'll ever get to the NHL as a 3/4th liner. I think he should be a C maybe a B, but most likely a C.

Does anyone see Mathieu Aubin as a second liner. I'm sorry I don't see him there. Of course he is a D. I think Valentenko is low. I also think Subban is low. They can both be 7.5 to me.

Just goes to show, that's it's all subjective. Pick a number, any number, you don't really have to justify it.

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09-06-2007, 10:36 AM
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The ratings are from last year, they'll be updated eventually.

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Old
09-06-2007, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onepoll View Post
I was looking at the new comments and rank of HF toward Habs prospects... I notice that 6.5 D for D'Agostini was odd...

The new ranking:

1 Carey Price 8.0B

2 Andrei Kostitsyn 8.0C
3 Ryan McDonagh 8.0C

4 Alexei Emelin 7.5B
5 Kyle Chipchura 7.5B

6 Sergei Kostitsyn 7.5C
7 Mikhail Grabovsky 7.5C
8 Max Pacioretty 7.5C

9 Ryan O'Byrne 7.0C
10 Jaroslav Halak 7.0C
11 David Fischer 7.0C (Fallen a bit since the draft)

12 PK Subban 7.0D
13 Mathieu Carle 7.0D
14 Mathieu Aubin 7.0D
15 Corey Locke 7.0D

16 Maxim Lapierre 6.5C
17 Ben Maxwell 6.5C (ranked very low)
18 Ryan Russel 6.5C
19 Pavel Valentenko 6.5C
20 Cameron Cepek 6.5C

21 Konstantin Korneev 6.5D
22 Matt D'Agostini 6.5D

May be I was off the track, but I've watched around 12 regular season game of the Bulldogs + 10 of playoffs and I thought that he was good for a rookie with a good upside and potential in the NHL, I thought that he could become a great 3rd liner, could be the perfect third line in the future if everything world well with Pacioretty-Chipchura-D'Agostini ??

Did Price loose 37 lbs since wining the calder cup...According to HF he's 175 lbs and he weighed 212lbs this past June. Either he's the new poster boy for slimfast or their s##t needs to be updated.

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Old
09-06-2007, 12:25 PM
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Nobody overrates him. He is mention as a possible candidate to surprise everyone. Out of the "underrated" guys usually never mentioned, he might be on top of that list....but then it's far from being overrated.

But as much as he could never make it, I can clearly see him becoming a regular NHL'er that could do everything good at the next level but nothing great. But that wouldn't be bad.

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Old
09-06-2007, 12:58 PM
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Man, I think it's the worst rankings that I've seen for the Habs...where's White??!?!?!?

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09-06-2007, 05:07 PM
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6.5 B Thats what I think is the proper rating for this kid... This kid has very few holes in his game and has some very nice offensive skills as well, I see him like a solid third line winger who can contribute offensively.

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09-06-2007, 10:57 PM
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He doesn't have holes in his game,it's just that he doesn't excel in any area. He's pretty well rounded. I personally think D'Agostini has excellent upside. I think he should be rated a 7.0C.

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09-06-2007, 11:00 PM
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Fischer really shouldn't have fallen. He was injured, that's hardly an indication that his potential is falling..

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09-07-2007, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Form and Substance View Post
He doesn't have holes in his game,it's just that he doesn't excel in any area. He's pretty well rounded. I personally think D'Agostini has excellent upside. I think he should be rated a 7.0C.
Isnt why he should be rated A or B no? The fact he is so well rounded and the way he played at his rookie AHL season is enough to deserve a high letter, he proved enough to believe he has high chances to become a NHLer..

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09-07-2007, 11:35 PM
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Everyones going to rank em differently. If I was still doing it, my would look something like this,

Goalies
Price- 9B
Halak- 7.5C
Lacasse- 3C

Defense
Fischer- 8B (I know I'll hear it)
McDonagh- 8C (hard to rate him yet)
O'Byrne- 7.5C
Emelin- 7.5C
Subban- 7.5C
Valentenko- 7B
Carle- 7C
Stejskal- 6.5C
Weber- 6.5C
Paquet- 6.5C
Torp- 6C
Kishel- 6.5D
Archer- 5B
Cepek- 5D

Forwards
Grabovski- 7.5C
Maxwell- 7.5C
Chipchura- 7B
Pacioretty- 7B
S.Kostitsyn- 7B
White- 7C
D'Agostini- 6.5B
Fortier- 6B
Aubin- 6.5D
Wyman- 6C
Locke- 7D
Russell- 6C
Conboy- 6C
Lemieux- 5C
Stewart- 5C
Urquhart- 6D
Bonneau- 5D

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Old
09-08-2007, 04:16 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Everyones going to rank em differently. If I was still doing it, my would look something like this,

Goalies
Price- 9B
Halak- 7.5C
Lacasse- 3C

Defense
Fischer- 8B (I know I'll hear it)
McDonagh- 8C (hard to rate him yet)
O'Byrne- 7.5C
Emelin- 7.5C
Subban- 7.5C
Valentenko- 7B
Carle- 7C
Stejskal- 6.5C
Weber- 6.5C
Paquet- 6.5C
Torp- 6C
Kishel- 6.5D
Archer- 5B
Cepek- 5D

Forwards
Grabovski- 7.5C
Maxwell- 7.5C
Chipchura- 7B
Pacioretty- 7B
S.Kostitsyn- 7B
White- 7C
D'Agostini- 6.5B
Fortier- 6B
Aubin- 6.5D
Wyman- 6C
Locke- 7D
Russell- 6C
Conboy- 6C
Lemieux- 5C
Stewart- 5C
Urquhart- 6D
Bonneau- 5D
Its a tough thing to do since the rating system isnt the most evident one.. I like your ratings.. On Chipper, I would give him a 6A rating cause I think his role will be more defensively minded and I dont think he has the natural skills to play on top lines, but its wrote in the sky this guy will become a great checking line center in this league, he just cant miss it. On Grabovski, I would give him a 7.5B, this kid is one of the few that have a fair chance to make the team this year.. I know it has been physically tough for him in the AHL last year but with his warrior attitude, its not a so big deal.. Im glad to see you so high on Fisher, I love his size, reach, smooth skating and puck control+.. You seem high on the way he thinks the game so I hope to see him reach his potential..

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09-08-2007, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
Its a tough thing to do since the rating system isnt the most evident one.. I like your ratings.. On Chipper, I would give him a 6A rating cause I think his role will be more defensively minded and I dont think he has the natural skills to play on top lines, but its wrote in the sky this guy will become a great checking line center in this league, he just cant miss it. On Grabovski, I would give him a 7.5B, this kid is one of the few that have a fair chance to make the team this year.. I know it has been physically tough for him in the AHL last year but with his warrior attitude, its not a so big deal.. Im glad to see you so high on Fisher, I love his size, reach, smooth skating and puck control+.. You seem high on the way he thinks the game so I hope to see him reach his potential..
I think your wrong about Chip's potential. The guy has offensive potential that would have developed sooner had he not had that terrible Achilies injury in the WHL. I think If he plays an extra year in the AHL it could help him develop it there. Would serve us better in the long run too, but i'm not the GM

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09-08-2007, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
Its a tough thing to do since the rating system isnt the most evident one.. I like your ratings.. On Chipper, I would give him a 6A rating cause I think his role will be more defensively minded and I dont think he has the natural skills to play on top lines, but its wrote in the sky this guy will become a great checking line center in this league, he just cant miss it. On Grabovski, I would give him a 7.5B, this kid is one of the few that have a fair chance to make the team this year.. I know it has been physically tough for him in the AHL last year but with his warrior attitude, its not a so big deal.. Im glad to see you so high on Fisher, I love his size, reach, smooth skating and puck control+.. You seem high on the way he thinks the game so I hope to see him reach his potential..
I have not been that high on Chipchura's offensive upside but he really impressed me in the playoffs, so while I see him as a 3rd liner I'm hoping he has 2nd line upside if offensive game develops more. Next to Price he was the most impressive player in the playoffs imo. Grabovski on the other hand, after watching almost every Dogs game I felt his game took a hit when he lost Kostitsyn and after the cheap shot he got from Carcilo. He was disappointing in the playoffs imo, as was D'Agostini, as both had a hard time putting the puck in the net.

Fischer just got better and better as the season went on. Defensively he was really impressive and offensively he started to improve. Now we'll see what he can do this season with increased ice time and PP duty. I guess we'll see as I seem to be higher on him then most. But with his skating/speed/passing/smarts/frame I really like what I've seen from him and can't wait to watch him progress this season. I also can't wait to see McDonagh, Pacioretty and Stejskal as I should get to see all 4 since I get a lot of NCAA games on tv.

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09-08-2007, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I have not been that high on Chipchura's offensive upside but he really impressed me in the playoffs, so while I see him as a 3rd liner I'm hoping he has 2nd line upside if offensive game develops more. Next to Price he was the most impressive player in the playoffs imo. Grabovski on the other hand, after watching almost every Dogs game I felt his game took a hit when he lost Kostitsyn and after the cheap shot he got from Carcilo. He was disappointing in the playoffs imo, as was D'Agostini, as both had a hard time putting the puck in the net.

Fischer just got better and better as the season went on. Defensively he was really impressive and offensively he started to improve. Now we'll see what he can do this season with increased ice time and PP duty. I guess we'll see as I seem to be higher on him then most. But with his skating/speed/passing/smarts/frame I really like what I've seen from him and can't wait to watch him progress this season. I also can't wait to see McDonagh, Pacioretty and Stejskal as I should get to see all 4 since I get a lot of NCAA games on tv.
I imagine Grabovski's body had been taking a physical beating.. both him and D'Agostini were good in the play-offs, but definitely not to the level they could've been.. but this was their debut in the professional leagues.. and for both D'Ago and Grabs. they've never played a long as season as that before in their lives.

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09-08-2007, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I imagine Grabovski's body had been taking a physical beating.. both him and D'Agostini were good in the play-offs, but definitely not to the level they could've been.. but this was their debut in the professional leagues.. and for both D'Ago and Grabs. they've never played a long as season as that before in their lives.
Yea Grabovski wasn't the same after that knee on knee shot from Carcilo and then he had the hand injury. He did look better in final round, same for D'Ago, but had their struggles to score. But for D'Agostini he only played 4 more games then the year before when he played in 81 games (66+15) vs 85 this year (63+22) For Grabo though it was a long season as he played on some 60-70 games the year before (RSL/Euro Champion Cup/WC/Belarus Cup) where he played some 89 games this year. O'Byrne comes to mind with him playing only 28 the year before and then playing 80+22 this year, playing in every single game in both the regular season and playoffs in all situations.

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09-08-2007, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Yea Grabovski wasn't the same after that knee on knee shot from Carcilo and then he had the hand injury. He did look better in final round, same for D'Ago, but had their struggles to score. But for D'Agostini he only played 4 more games then the year before when he played in 81 games (66+15) vs 85 this year (63+22) For Grabo though it was a long season as he played on some 60-70 games the year before (RSL/Euro Champion Cup/WC/Belarus Cup) where he played some 89 games this year. O'Byrne comes to mind with him playing only 28 the year before and then playing 80+22 this year, playing in every single game in both the regular season and playoffs in all situations.
True.. but D'Ago did have an injury earlier on in the season, didn't he? With him and Grabovski and the injruries, they could've lost key conditioning time that would've helped to keep them more fresh for the long haul.

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09-09-2007, 01:32 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
True.. but D'Ago did have an injury earlier on in the season, didn't he? With him and Grabovski and the injruries, they could've lost key conditioning time that would've helped to keep them more fresh for the long haul.
Yes he had an injury, believe it was his shoulder, missed a chunk of games but when he came back he was put on the 1st line and looked fine, so I don't think it was the injury that effected him in the playoffs. I'm not sure what happened. The difference from the OHL to the AHL in terms of length of season is a little more, since the OHL plays 68 games vs the AHL's 80 games.

As for Grabovski the injuries seemed to have effected him, I did wonder if he came back too soon from the knee injury, cause when he did come back, he played a game and then sat for a couple if I remember correctly. Not sure if the hand injury effected him or not in the playoffs, could be. The RSL season they play 60 games in the regular season.

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Old
09-09-2007, 03:24 PM
  #22
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D'Agostini seem to be prety hight on Timmins ranking so i dont think the fan over rate him .

I think he s a 7C he could be a 2 line player most probably a 3 line mayeb a 4 line players but i m very cofident he will play in the NHL for the Hab .

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