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Old
08-11-2007, 02:09 AM
  #1
hawks35
 
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Helenius/Ramo

I was wondering which one had the better shot at ever making the ning? Whoever it is, do you see them being a starting goalie in the nhl anytime soon?

I see theyre 1 and 2 on the depth chart, so if the organization is this high on them how come neither have gotten a shot yet with them? Especially since they had such a problem in this area since khabi left. DOnt know much about them at all so any help would be much appreciated, thanks guys.

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08-12-2007, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawks35 View Post
I was wondering which one had the better shot at ever making the ning? Whoever it is, do you see them being a starting goalie in the nhl anytime soon?
Right now Ramo has a better chance at making the Lightning. He's considered NHL-ready by the scouts and he's 3rd on the depth chart right now. If he has a strong camp, he could make the team. I think Ramo could be the starter in 2-3 years. Depends on his development, but he's the closer one because A) he's older B) he's played pro hockey for two years C) Helenius is still unproven after a shoulder injury kept him out for most of the year last year.

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I see theyre 1 and 2 on the depth chart, so if the organization is this high on them how come neither have gotten a shot yet with them? Especially since they had such a problem in this area since khabi left. DOnt know much about them at all so any help would be much appreciated, thanks guys.
Well considering Ramo just now turned 21 and Helenius is 18, that should answer your question as to why neither has gotten a shot yet. They aren't ready yet to be the #1 guy in the NHL. I don't think throwing either one in to an NHL net last year would have made a difference over the current goalie problems. Ramo played last year because of a problem Denis had with his Visa and I believe he played in another because Holmqvist was sick. Both times he was thrown in to a blowout. Unless it's a super-elite prospect goalie, goalies usually don't get to the NHL until they are 22-23. They usually take longer to develop than the other positions. Ramo could see NHL time next year if he has a strong camp or if one of Holmqvist/Denis falters (which is a good possibility). If he goes to Norfolk and has a strong showing again like last season, no doubt he'll be called up. As I mentioned earlier, Helenius had a shoulder injury last year so he has to prove this year in the WHL that he's healthy and that he's worth the 1st round pick. I'm not sure what the adjustment is like for goalies from Europe to NA. I know for position players it isn't always smooth. He's basically an unknown at this point after a lost season last year. These guys still have to develop and they have to show they are ready for the gig first. The team would be dumb to just throw two prospects on to the NHL roster and expect results at this point.

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08-13-2007, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawks35 View Post
I was wondering which one had the better shot at ever making the ning? Whoever it is, do you see them being a starting goalie in the nhl anytime soon?

I see theyre 1 and 2 on the depth chart, so if the organization is this high on them how come neither have gotten a shot yet with them? Especially since they had such a problem in this area since khabi left. DOnt know much about them at all so any help would be much appreciated, thanks guys.
I believe that are 20 and 21 respectively or somewhere in that neighbourhood. I just think being conservative with their development at this point is a good idea. Not too many goalies at that age can handle the pressure of being in the NHL, let alone battle for a starting position.

In 2 to 3 years you guys will be laughing all the way to the bank. Maybe able to trade one of them for an impact forward.

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08-13-2007, 06:59 PM
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I suspect Tampa will almost HAVE to trade a goalie at some point. If Ramo and Helenius develop as expected, that's two number one goalies right there, and if Koshechkin can translate his amazing RSL game to North America, then that's three guys who are all #1 goalies and something has to give. Can't expect one of these guys to ride the bench all season, or play in the minors.

It's a fantastic problem to have though, so no complaints on this end.

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09-03-2007, 09:43 AM
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Ramo/Helenius

Which one of these guys do you think is your future #1 Goalie? I always thought Ramo had more potential but I have been hearing a lot of people talking about Helenius lately. Which Goalie do you guys think will be better? Thanks.

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09-03-2007, 11:17 AM
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Ramo is closer...Helenius may have more potential but Ramo is more likely to be the #1 sooner. Scouts believe he is NHL-ready, but may have to wait another year before he makes the roster permanently. Personally, I'd rather have him spend another full year in the AHL instead of being a backup at the NHL level.

Koshechkin is also a very good prospect. He's going to finish his contract in Russia this year then come over next year. He may very well be the best of the bunch, but there hasn't been a lot of success with Russian goalies lately and the Russian league stats aren't a very good indicator as it's a more defensive oriented league. Goaltending prospects is certainly one of the organization's strengths right now.

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09-18-2007, 10:15 AM
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Russian goalies will be at a premium

I can't verify this, but I read in another thread the Russian league will exclude import goalies from rosters beginning next season.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...9#post10448349

If this is true, that would make goalies such as Kosechkin a premium property and the way RSL teams throw cash around, might put him out of the Lightning's price range. Not saying they couldn't bring him over, but it might be a case of he would command so much in salary that it wouldn't make sense for TB to bring him over unless they were going to make him the No. 1.

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Old
09-20-2007, 04:46 AM
  #8
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Helenius' development curve was aiming higher a season ago, but one never knows what kind of an effect the shoulder injury and missing almost the whole season have had on his development.

At the moment I´d go with Rämö and say Helenius is a question mark.

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09-20-2007, 11:42 AM
  #9
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I'd rather see Helenius. Better reflexes, better ability to read the game; isn't all over the place. He has a steeper lc than Karri, and I feel that he will be picked for the Big Team over Riku.

I remain dubious about Ramo; I don't want to hammer on his performance in the AHL ASG last season, but what I saw bothered me. I'm not seeing him as NHL-ready at this moment, but I feel that he'll make the team before Helenius does -- because of convenience. My instinct is that TBL management would reason "he's here; take him over anyone else". Just a feeling I have.

I don't like Ramo's positioning nor his coverage (over-reacts, too easily taken out of position). You know what I mean? He's still too jumpy for my taste. There's room for improvement.

Hmmm....

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09-20-2007, 11:55 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No-Twitch Tabitha View Post
I'd rather see Helenius. Better reflexes, better ability to read the game; isn't all over the place. He has a steeper lc than Karri, and I feel that he will be picked for the Big Team over Riku.

I remain dubious about Ramo; I don't want to hammer on his performance in the AHL ASG last season, but what I saw bothered me. I'm not seeing him as NHL-ready at this moment, but I feel that he'll make the team before Helenius does -- because of convenience. My instinct is that TBL management would reason "he's here; take him over anyone else". Just a feeling I have.

I don't like Ramo's positioning nor his coverage (over-reacts, too easily taken out of position). You know what I mean? He's still too jumpy for my taste. There's room for improvement.

Hmmm....
That's funny, I thought Ramo's overall all-star performance was tremendous and filled me with hope. Time and practive will help reign in some of what concerns you, but you cant teach those reflexes and creativity. Plus, it was nice to see a goalie that belonged to the Lightning actually make a clutch save - albeit in the skills competition. Perhaps I'm overating him on that basis. Maybe not.

Since I've never seen Helenius in any raw footage (only edited clips), I can't compare and be fair.

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09-20-2007, 09:27 PM
  #11
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He was fine in the Skills Comp, but his performance in the game itself bothered me for the above-stated reasons.

I'm willing to wait for him to improve, but I wonder how long the TBL are going to keep using the line that they are waiting until he's "NHL-ready".

I went in search of Helenius (or FEL-Ilves) footage that wasn't NHL DraftNet, and I didn't find much. He looked (and sounded) pretty good from the clips I did see, but unfortunately I don't speak the Finnish.

Ilve's website didn't haven't any video of him, but here's a link to his stats: http://www.ilves.com/arkisto/2005/helenius_riku.php

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Last edited by No-Twitch Tabitha: 09-20-2007 at 10:45 PM.
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09-20-2007, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No-Twitch Tabitha View Post
He was fine in the Skills Comp, but his performance in the game itself bothered me for the above-stated reasons.

I'm willing to wait for him to improve, but I wonder how long the TBL are going to keep using the line that they are waiting until he's "NHL-ready".

I went in search of Helenius (or FEL-Ilves) footage that wasn't NHL DraftNet, and I didn't find much. He looked (and sounded) pretty good from the clips I did see, but unfortunately I don't speak the Finnish.

Ilve's website didn't haven't any video of him, but here's a link to his stats: http://www.ilves.com/arkisto/2005/helenius_riku.php

OPEN INVITATION TO FINNISH MEMBERS FOR TRANSLATIONS. As much as I'd love to add yet another language to my hobby list, I'm just too tired lately.
I've seen Helenius play. It was in under-18 action against Canada. He is what some would call a positional goalie. He relies on good positioning and a big body and lets the puck hit him. He covers a lot of the net, too. Very good goalie.

As for Ramo's effort in the all-star game, don't read too much into one game, especially a meaningless one like that.

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Old
09-20-2007, 11:21 PM
  #13
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Is it really fair to evaluate Ramo just on one game? It was just an all-star game and even the elite goalies get lit up in all-star games. I could understand if you saw a pattern over a period of time, but I don't get how you can draw a conclusion just based on an all-star game.

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09-21-2007, 02:12 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan02 View Post
Is it really fair to evaluate Ramo just on one game? It was just an all-star game and even the elite goalies get lit up in all-star games. I could understand if you saw a pattern over a period of time, but I don't get how you can draw a conclusion just based on an all-star game.
I wasn't pretending my evaluation was fair. I was just going by instinct. I was saying it worried me is all.

I'll keep watching them both, but it just nagged at me, so I said something about it.

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09-21-2007, 07:13 PM
  #15
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Just to clarify, and not accusing you Tabs, but just because one likes Helenius more than Ramo doesn't mean that Ramo stinks (or vice-versa). It would be grand to have them both pan out. Unfortunately, sometimes, threads degenerate into bashing the guy you like less to make your boy look better.

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Old
09-24-2007, 02:54 PM
  #16
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how come Ramo is yet to play in pre-season?

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09-24-2007, 03:10 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
how come Ramo is yet to play in pre-season?
Tampa has only played 2 games so far. Tortorella said that the starter would play the entire game. Game 3 is tonight and I expect Ramo to play the entire game, just like Denis and Holmqvist did.

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