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Is Orr a Necessity at this point?

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10-01-2007, 08:06 AM
  #1
rangers5
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Is Orr a Necessity at this point?

With all the attention that Hollweg and Avery are going to draw from the other teams, do you all think at this point that we need Orr in the lineup everyday for protective purposes? I know Hossa can provide better play along the boards and kill penalties, but it seems to me that a team with Avery Hollweg and Callahan, three tough but small pests, as well as a slew of talented forwards that need protection, that Orr needs to be a fixture on the 4th line.....Thoughts?

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10-01-2007, 08:19 AM
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I think that the preseason proved that Orr is needed for 90% of the games we play.

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10-01-2007, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers5 View Post
With all the attention that Hollweg and Avery are going to draw from the other teams, do you all think at this point that we need Orr in the lineup everyday for protective purposes? I know Hossa can provide better play along the boards and kill penalties, but it seems to me that a team with Avery Hollweg and Callahan, three tough but small pests, as well as a slew of talented forwards that need protection, that Orr needs to be a fixture on the 4th line.....Thoughts?

Thius club would be absolutely screaming for an enforcer if Orr wasn't on the team. Avery, and Hollweg are both super-pests...we will see players getting run every game...we will probably see that anyway. But at the very least, Orr is there to answer the bell, becuase the team certainly doesn;t want Drury and Shanny doing it.

I think Orr had about 5 majors in the pre-season already. Imagine how busy he will be during the reg season?


But oh yeah...we could have just done this in one of the other 2 Orr threads that have been created over the past couple weeks.

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10-01-2007, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogo View Post
I think that the preseason proved that Orr is needed for 90% of the games we play.
what he said.

I donīt know if you saw the preseason games, but Orr was necessary to knock some players out so that they wonīt take runs at our players. Hollweg did a great job against Philly but Iīm much more comfortable when Orr is in the lineup to protect. But itīs not important how I feel, its important how the team feels with Orr in the lineup and I think heīs proven that they all can rely on him. "If someones taking shots at you, I will clean their clocks, so donīt worry guys and play your games." Thatīs pretty much the message Orr is sending out.

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10-01-2007, 08:28 AM
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TheHotRock
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the question you should be asking is "Is Hollweg a necessity at this point"

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10-01-2007, 08:32 AM
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I think to a certain % it remains to be seen.

It also depends on how chippy as a team we want to be, if we want guys like Dubinsky and Callahan to start take libertys on the ice for example we better always have Orr dressed.

In the end I am leaning towards beeing in favor of dressing Orr for just about all games, maybe we can rest him on some nights, playing him 75 games or something. Not necessary because I see allot of terrible stuff gooing down unless we dress him; I am not afraid of that at all. Like we have seen before, Orr won't really prevent anything, or having a goon don't prevent anything. Ottawa had their goons dressed and Downie still ran McAmmond. But because I belive having Orr on the bench got a positive impact on how guys like Callahan, Staal, Dubinsky, Avery, Tyutin among others will play. And I think its really important that thoose guys are comfortable.

I thought about this lineup for a while;
Straka-Drury-Jagr
Dawes-Gomez-Shanny
Prucha-Betts-Hossa
Avery-Dubinsky-Callahan
Malik-Roz
Tyutin-Mara
Staal-Girardi

I don't think that lineup would have any more toughness issues then our team had 1-2 seasons ago when Orr was dressed. They would have had much more team toughness then thoose versions of the NYR.

But on the other hand in the end I just think its more important to give the young kids we do got now that extra confidence, to protect guys like Staal, Tyutin, Dubinsky and Callahan even more; in two-three years we can live on the team toughness we have developed, like Detroit often have for example, they basically didn't carry a goon for more then 1/3 of the games the last two seasons.

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Old
10-01-2007, 08:35 AM
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Watching Hollweg play the last few games, I think he does serve a purpose for this team. Both the Isles and Philly were so distracted by his presence on the ice and if he can keep his own behavior in line I think he can draw alot the attention of the other team, not to mention alot of penalties.

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10-01-2007, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
I think Orr had about 5 majors in the pre-season already. Imagine how busy he will be during the reg season?
We will see. Philly will probably take 3 "goons" off their roster when everyone is healty for example.

Janssen have always been in and out for NJD, and is now out for a pretty long time with his shoulder. NYI will be without Simon.

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10-01-2007, 08:43 AM
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I think we've had this discussion about 500 times just this preseason.

Orr is liked and respected on the team. His presence may not deter the opposition from taking runs at our stars, but it certainly does serve as a distraction as opposing tough guys love to chase Colton. He's also improved the defensive and checking aspects of his game to the point that in a limited role he is not a liability. He should dress for any games against opposing teams that carry the threat of goonery.

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10-01-2007, 08:44 AM
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This league always has "copycat" syndrome. Whomever has success gets mimicked by teams the following year. Sometimes this changes the pattern of the whole league. You saw it when the "Legion of doom" came around, all of the sudden you couldn't get drafted unless you were 6 foot 4. Teams like Tampa and Carolina won without a real enforcer, so everybody phased them out. Now the Ducks like to get it on, and fight ALOT. I think the mimics are going to be out in full force, and you'll see more fighting majors this year. If we didn't carry a guy like Orr, our young guys would be having some problems. I really like the kid. His skills aren't great, but he tries hard, and he's got the best punch we've had around since Kocur left. If you're going to carry a one trick pony, it better be a good trick. I think he does just fine.

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10-01-2007, 08:49 AM
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after seeing the ducks in two games my friends, I can tell you the way to the cup is going through a team such as the ducks with an abundance of very capable young power forwards - who enjoy the physical game.

I simply can't see ourselves competing on that level.

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10-01-2007, 08:50 AM
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I'll also add that Orr has seemigly established himself as one of the better fighters in the game. When he was first brought in, most of us knocked him for losing most of his fights. Last season and particularly this preseason he has looked pretty damn good out there, even against guys like Brashear and Janssen. He's really shown an uncanny ability to catch people with a quick right and knock them off off their feet.

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Originally Posted by london ranger View Post
after seeing the ducks in two games my friends, I can tell you the way to the cup is going through a team such as the ducks with an abundance of very capable young power forwards - who enjoy the physical game.

I simply can't see ourselves competing on that level.
As SML noted in the post above yours, different strategies have worked for different teams through recent history. Having young power forwards does seem to be a solid plan for success, but it certainly isn't the way.

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10-01-2007, 08:54 AM
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Orr has to stay. He is the only legitmate enforcer we have. Holweg and Avery are pests - not enforcers.

I think if anyone is superfluous at this point, it's Hollweg.

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10-01-2007, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
the question you should be asking is "Is Hollweg a necessity at this point"
Exactly.

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10-01-2007, 08:54 AM
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I'm not a big Orr fan. And I'm not a big fighting guy. But the 4th line are going to play very few minutes night in and night out. So I don't really see the harm of Orr on the 4th line.

I guess it comes down to who would you have playing 5 minutes a night on the 4th line?

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10-01-2007, 09:00 AM
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Colton is the Rangers only heavyweight. He is must be dressed and ready to go imo. I thought that over the summer, and the preseason confirms it.

He's also one of TR's special projects and I have to admitt, I see some positive results. He has improved his overall game a lot since coming to NYR

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10-01-2007, 09:10 AM
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Here we go again. Yes Orr is needed. In less you want to go back to being figure skaters with sticks then don't play Orr.

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10-01-2007, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
the question you should be asking is "Is Hollweg a necessity at this point"
totally agree....I think he does more harm than good.

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10-01-2007, 09:25 AM
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Larry Melnyk
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Yes, and I hate to say it, we need a goon on this team, and Orr fills that role nicely. However, people are getting carried away with extrapolateing the pre-season to regular season. ALot of these cement-head goons will be gone and/or totally reigned in.......

At the most, I think we will need Orr for 30-40 games max..But that's fine, other teams do the same... With his atrocious skating and limited hockey skills, he would be a detriment in the other games..It would be nice if he could pick up some speed, do some decent forechecking and throw some checks, but he really can't...(And why Holly is needed so much more on a nightly bases)...But we do need him for a good number of opponents..And for insurance..

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10-01-2007, 09:39 AM
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Yes ORR is a definite need. I have always liked him. he wants to be a Ranger and wants to play hockey, stands up for team mates ( which is his job , but still ) skates and works hard shift in and out hen ever he gets on the ice. thats a layer , just like Hollweg that every team needs.

Him playing 5 minutes a game on the 4th line is not going to break NYR, its really not. I dont see the need to have 4 lines of goal scoring softees just like everyone just about here wants.

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10-01-2007, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogo View Post
I think that the preseason proved that Orr is needed for 90% of the games we play.
We played our division rivals AHL goon squads this pre-season. Hardly a fair indicator of what the season will bring. W/ the firepower that the NYR will have on it's PP, teams would be flat out foolish to be intentionaly running our stars. Chucking Orr now, could allow the keeping of Dawes in the big city. If we're in dire need of a bodyguard when we face PHI, NYI, then a quick bus ride for Lessard would be fine.

Lines could be-

Hossa/Drury/JJ
Shanny/Gomer/Dawes (Prucha, Cally)
Avery/Dubi/Prucha (Dawes, Cally)
Straka/Betts/Calli(Holly)

Clearly not going to happen, because he's a Renney fave, but it could've been an option.

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10-01-2007, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philbo View Post
We played our division rivals AHL goon squads this pre-season. Hardly a fair indicator of what the season will bring. W/ the firepower that the NYR will have on it's PP, teams would be flat out foolish to be intentionaly running our stars. Chucking Orr now, could allow the keeping of Dawes in the big city. If we're in dire need of a bodyguard when we face PHI, NYI, then a quick bus ride for Lessard would be fine.

Lines could be-

Hossa/Drury/JJ
Shanny/Gomer/Dawes (Prucha, Cally)
Avery/Dubi/Prucha (Dawes, Cally)
Straka/Betts/Calli(Holly)

Clearly not going to happen, because he's a Renney fave, but it could've been an option.
Just as a side note, Lessard is not under contract with us. We'd have to sign him to an NHL deal before he could play with us.

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10-01-2007, 10:16 AM
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coolbean04
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I'm not a big Orr fan. And I'm not a big fighting guy. But the 4th line are going to play very few minutes night in and night out. So I don't really see the harm of Orr on the 4th line.

I guess it comes down to who would you have playing 5 minutes a night on the 4th line?
Exactly, and I get soooooooo frustrated how they think guys like Hollweg and Orr takes up spaces for our guys.

LISTEN, the 4th line doesn't play much. They'd probably get about 5 min. a game, is that what you want for Dawes???? If they can't get consistent ice time, they should be in Hartford.

The lines should be:

Straka- Drury/Gomez - Jagr
Shanny - Drury/Gomez- Avery
Prucha - Dubinsky/AA- Callahan
Hollweg- Betts-Orr

Yes I know, Hossa doesn't have a spot and I like Hossa too. I don't want to get rid of Hossa but I think Prucha is better. Also, a prospect center gets the nod over Hossa. Hossa a nice player to have in case of an injury or if someone is slumping. He'll end up having a lousy year due to not playing much ice time, we sign him to an extension and he'll have ice time next year when Straka, and Shanny are gone. Having Hossa on the 4th line is a waste too, I rather have our enforcers on the 4th line and not mess with it.

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10-01-2007, 10:19 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philbo View Post
We played our division rivals AHL goon squads this pre-season. Hardly a fair indicator of what the season will bring. W/ the firepower that the NYR will have on it's PP, teams would be flat out foolish to be intentionaly running our stars. Chucking Orr now, could allow the keeping of Dawes in the big city. If we're in dire need of a bodyguard when we face PHI, NYI, then a quick bus ride for Lessard would be fine.

Lines could be-

Hossa/Drury/JJ
Shanny/Gomer/Dawes (Prucha, Cally)
Avery/Dubi/Prucha (Dawes, Cally)
Straka/Betts/Calli(Holly)

Clearly not going to happen, because he's a Renney fave, but it could've been an option.
How the hell do you have Straka on the 4th line???? Hossa has promise but to put an unproven player over a proven player while trying to win the SC is nuts.

We have too many guys while not having enough spots. DEAL WITH IT!!! Hossa or Prucha are most likely the odd man out in not getting ice time. We just hope we can win the SC this year and a lot of this will get sorted out next year when Shanny and Straka are gone.

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10-01-2007, 10:21 AM
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i dont think you can judge orr's importance based on the preseason. there isn't going to be 5 fights a game during the season.

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