HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Rink
The Rink For the not so ready for prime-time players, coaches, referees, and the people that have to live with them. Discuss experiences in local leagues, coaching tips, equipment, and training.

Where does your kid play

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-28-2007, 02:19 PM
  #76
Nbr-17
Registered User
 
Nbr-17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stouffville, ON
Country: Germany
Posts: 516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrill_me_mogilny View Post
My son is playing "real" hockey for the first time. He's taken some learn to play hockey courses, and of course skating with school, but this is the first time on a team. We're with Mississauga Hockey League(Novice) He got his first point this weekend, an assist and we're both over the moon about it. He's on the small side but still mucked it out in the boards.
Cool, congrats. Where does he play in the MHL? My son started with Clarkson and then went to Meadowvale for minor novice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrill_me_mogilny View Post
Someone mentioned contact being allowed at 8-9? I think I was told his was no contact. Does it vary between house and rep?
Yes, contact at minor atom (8/9 year olds) only starte for rep hockey (A, AA and AAA) in houseleague it doesn't start until later. I think bantam.
AFAIK Ontario is the only province/state in north America where contact starts that early. Evertwhere else it starts at pewee.

Nbr-17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2007, 11:06 PM
  #77
Dakota Sioux
Registered User
 
Dakota Sioux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: JAMESTOWN,ND
Country: United States
Posts: 10,701
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by brymel View Post
From what I have always heard, USA hockey rules allow checking at the PeeWee level and not before. In Canada it begins at the Atom/Mite level. IMO, I would rather see it begin at the earlier ages. It is a part of the game, and why not teach it from the beginning. Those first few games at PeeWee are always interesting to watch, as kids only seem interested in checking. After about the third game, they get back to playing hockey.
Totally agree with everything you said.When I played you learned to check the moment you stepped on the ice and that's one reason I fell in love with the game.

Dakota Sioux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2007, 12:03 AM
  #78
thrill_me_mogilny
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Serbia
Posts: 1,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbr-17 View Post
Cool, congrats. Where does he play in the MHL? My son started with Clarkson and then went to Meadowvale for minor novice.

Yes, contact at minor atom (8/9 year olds) only starte for rep hockey (A, AA and AAA) in houseleague it doesn't start until later. I think bantam.
AFAIK Ontario is the only province/state in north America where contact starts that early. Evertwhere else it starts at pewee.
He's with Applewood, and a friend is with Cooksville. They can't wait to play against each other to show off.

Is MHL fairly well run? I forgot that everyone, including players, has to pay admission to get into the games. Damn you Hazel!

thrill_me_mogilny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2007, 02:54 AM
  #79
Galchenyuk x 27
Registered User
 
Galchenyuk x 27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,594
vCash: 50
Quebec has to start with this contact, we're way behind.

Kids only start here in Bantam double letters. No contact at all in single letters, even in Midget in Junior. I think thats what sets us back a little.

I coach in a contact league and alot of the kids have no clue how to give out a good hard clean hit. It's pretty annoying having to teach them, seeing as we are at an elite level. (In Quebec its called Midget Espoir).
Its basically a stepping stone for Midget AAA. the league is for only 15 year olds. basically its the 15 year olds that are not good enough for AAA this year but they are to strong for AA.

as for my son, well im only 22, so i dont got kids, just a coach and i saw the discussion on body checking so i thought i would add in that Quebec is way behind.

Galchenyuk x 27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2007, 07:28 PM
  #80
javorka
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrill_me_mogilny View Post
He's with Applewood, and a friend is with Cooksville. They can't wait to play against each other to show off.

Is MHL fairly well run? I forgot that everyone, including players, has to pay admission to get into the games. Damn you Hazel!
Minor hockey that you pay to watch? Is admission then used to keep registration fees down?

javorka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2007, 08:18 AM
  #81
Nbr-17
Registered User
 
Nbr-17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stouffville, ON
Country: Germany
Posts: 516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by javorka View Post
Minor hockey that you pay to watch? Is admission then used to keep registration fees down?
In the GTHL there is a $5.- gate fee for players and adults. It's supposed to pay for the ice, but everybody knows it's a cash grab. But what can you do? Tell your kid he can't play?
The MHL gate fee doesn't go to the city, or Hazel, it goes to the MHL.

Nbr-17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2007, 10:23 AM
  #82
javorka
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbr-17 View Post
In the GTHL there is a $5.- gate fee for players and adults. It's supposed to pay for the ice, but everybody knows it's a cash grab. But what can you do? Tell your kid he can't play?
The MHL gate fee doesn't go to the city, or Hazel, it goes to the MHL.
You're right - of course you have to pay. But wow, that sounds kind of high - especially if your kid plays from September to March or April. And if you have two kids who play.....!

So what do you pay for registration? We've got two guys playing - one first year Atom and one third year Midget, and we paid about $825 at early registration in July. (Kids who signed up in the fall paid about $50 a piece more.) Of course this is just registration fee, and doesn't cover any travel expenses or tournaments so you can add about another $300 each. Is that about where you're at?

And sorry, but can you tell me where the GTHL is? And.....who the heck is Hazel?

javorka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2007, 11:18 AM
  #83
Crosbyfan
Registered User
 
Crosbyfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by javorka View Post
You're right - of course you have to pay. But wow, that sounds kind of high - especially if your kid plays from September to March or April. And if you have two kids who play.....!

So what do you pay for registration? We've got two guys playing - one first year Atom and one third year Midget, and we paid about $825 at early registration in July. (Kids who signed up in the fall paid about $50 a piece more.) Of course this is just registration fee, and doesn't cover any travel expenses or tournaments so you can add about another $300 each. Is that about where you're at?

And sorry, but can you tell me where the GTHL is? And.....who the heck is Hazel?
Greater Toronto - Toronto and surrounding area to some but many who live there think it refers to how much greater than anywhere else it is.

Crosbyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2007, 11:18 AM
  #84
Nbr-17
Registered User
 
Nbr-17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stouffville, ON
Country: Germany
Posts: 516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by javorka View Post
You're right - of course you have to pay. But wow, that sounds kind of high - especially if your kid plays from September to March or April. And if you have two kids who play.....!
You're right it adds up. Costs us $20 each time my son plays, unless my daughter doesn't come. Multiply by 33 regular season games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by javorka View Post
So what do you pay for registration? We've got two guys playing - one first year Atom and one third year Midget, and we paid about $825 at early registration in July. (Kids who signed up in the fall paid about $50 a piece more.) Of course this is just registration fee, and doesn't cover any travel expenses or tournaments so you can add about another $300 each. Is that about where you're at?
You really wanna know
Our team budget turns out to $3500.- per player for the year. That covers registration, practices, tournaments and equipment (2 game jerseys, practice jersey, pant, gloves, helmet, socks, bag, garnment bag for game jerseys, track suit, team jacket).

Quote:
Originally Posted by javorka View Post
And sorry, but can you tell me where the GTHL is? And.....who the heck is Hazel?
Sorry i was kinda responding to thrill_me_mogilny whose kid plays in the MHL.
MHL = Mississauga Hockey League, GTHL = Greater Toronto Hockey League of which the MHL is one of the leagues.
Hazel Mcallion is the major of Mississauga, and she's quite the character

Nbr-17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2007, 01:26 PM
  #85
thrill_me_mogilny
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Serbia
Posts: 1,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by javorka View Post
So what do you pay for registration? We've got two guys playing - one first year Atom and one third year Midget, and we paid about $825 at early registration in July.
I paid $250.00 for my son to play in house league, which includes a jersey and hockey socks. The most expensive league I found was about $350.00 I would prefer that the entrance fee be tacked onto the registration, mainly since I rarely carry cash and the arenas don't take debit! It's not like it's a huge amount to me but for some families that extra $10.00 minimum per game could be the difference between whether or not a kid plays.

One thing I noticed, some people really *****ed about the admission fee but gladly plunk down $5.00 for arena dogs and pop. Me, I bring my own coffee!

thrill_me_mogilny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2007, 04:03 PM
  #86
javorka
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosbyfan View Post
Greater Toronto - Toronto and surrounding area to some but many who live there think it refers to how much greater than anywhere else it is.
I don't even live anywhere near there and still get it!


Last edited by javorka: 10-01-2007 at 04:26 PM.
javorka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2007, 04:19 PM
  #87
javorka
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbr-17 View Post
You really wanna know
Our team budget turns out to $3500.- per player for the year. That covers registration, practices, tournaments and equipment (2 game jerseys, practice jersey, pant, gloves, helmet, socks, bag, garnment bag for game jerseys, track suit, team jacket).
So you're getting a little bit more for your money - our fees are only covering ice time, refs, etc. - no equipment. Anyway you look at it though, it ends up a pile of money. But hey, like my husband says, what better way to spend our money than to invest it in our kids. And hockey has helped keep our 17 year-old out of trouble - at least so far.

javorka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2007, 04:25 PM
  #88
brymel
HFBoards Sponsor
 
brymel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 630
vCash: 500
Quote:
So what do you pay for registration? We've got two guys playing - one first year Atom and one third year Midget, and we paid about $825 at early registration in July.
My son is a Bantam Major for a AAA club in Illinois. We pay almost $4800.00 in fees, which includes ice time, coaching, things like that. This does not include travel expenses, and we travel extensively. We are headed to Connecticut on Thursday for a prep school showcase. We also pay extra for jerseys, socks, warm-up gear. It is expensive, but it is worth it.

brymel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2007, 04:28 PM
  #89
javorka
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brymel View Post
My son is a Bantam Major for a AAA club in Illinois. We pay almost $4800.00 in fees, which includes ice time, coaching, things like that. This does not include travel expenses, and we travel extensively. We are headed to Connecticut on Thursday for a prep school showcase. We also pay extra for jerseys, socks, warm-up gear. It is expensive, but it is worth it.
You pay for coaching?

Around here the hockey dads fight over who's going to get to volunteer!

javorka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2007, 06:02 PM
  #90
brymel
HFBoards Sponsor
 
brymel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 630
vCash: 500
Quote:
Around here the hockey dads fight over who's going to get to volunteer!
At $4800.00, it better not be a dad coach, and it is not. The coaches are paid very well for their services. We also never share ice with any other team.

brymel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2007, 10:32 PM
  #91
FiveThreeEmptyNet
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 45
vCash: 500
Brymel

Brymel, I am new to "club" hockey teams. My experience is solely in Minnesota where everything is 'community based' and feeds into the HS programs. We only had dads coaching, now they've taken parents out of the equation and I'm told it is a volunteer that remains at that level (for example, Pee Wee A) for the year.

Now I live in Florida and my son is about to start the journey. He's just five, but here even MITES can travel. (This is absurd to a Minnesotan.) And I do mean travel. Games are regularly two hours away since there is so little participation.

I've heard that some of the coaches are paid by the club. About 10 grand for the season. I have no problem paying for ice, refs, jerseys, etc.... I object to paying for coaching. I know enough to handle kids all the way through Bantams. I suspect other caring parents do too.

Lousy deal to pay for coaching if you ask me. This is youth hockey. I guess I have a lot to learn.

FiveThreeEmptyNet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2007, 11:24 PM
  #92
javorka
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveThreeEmptyNet View Post
Brymel, I am new to "club" hockey teams. My experience is solely in Minnesota where everything is 'community based' and feeds into the HS programs. We only had dads coaching, now they've taken parents out of the equation and I'm told it is a volunteer that remains at that level (for example, Pee Wee A) for the year.

Now I live in Florida and my son is about to start the journey. He's just five, but here even MITES can travel. (This is absurd to a Minnesotan.) And I do mean travel. Games are regularly two hours away since there is so little participation.

I've heard that some of the coaches are paid by the club. About 10 grand for the season. I have no problem paying for ice, refs, jerseys, etc.... I object to paying for coaching. I know enough to handle kids all the way through Bantams. I suspect other caring parents do too.

Lousy deal to pay for coaching if you ask me. This is youth hockey. I guess I have a lot to learn.
I don't know if it's a lousy deal to pay for coaching - presuming the kid is playing in a hockey academy or something. But honestly, I have never heard of minor hockey coaches being paid. Unless I'm wrong, the first paid coaching positions in Alberta would be in the AJHL, the junior hockey league.

And speaking of travelling, even though participation in hockey is high (I'd say more than half the boys and at least a quarter of the girls here play) we still do a ton of travelling, too. In our case it's because we're in a rural area.....

javorka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2007, 06:10 AM
  #93
brymel
HFBoards Sponsor
 
brymel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 630
vCash: 500
My son plays Tier I AAA hockey, which is the highest level of youth hockey that your kid can play. For reference, house/rec hockey is usually considered B league. Travel teams are your A teams, and your highest level of travel team is your AA team. This is what I call "club" hockey. AAA hockey in Illinois only starts at your squirt major year through Midget Major. Each AAA club in Illinois has one team at each level, so if your kid doesn't make a team, you don't play for that club. I do know that Minnesota is different. From what I understand, they don't or didn't adopt USA hockey rules, and are kind of on their own. Their high school system is a lot stronger then ours. So for many talented kids in Illinois, high school hockey isn't an option. AAA is.

brymel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2007, 08:32 AM
  #94
Nbr-17
Registered User
 
Nbr-17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stouffville, ON
Country: Germany
Posts: 516
vCash: 500
In Ontario in general you play where you live.
A little bit of an exception is the GTA. In the GTA you would normally play in GTHL. Within the GTHL there are no geographical restriction. You can play on any of the 12 AAA organizations, about 40 or so AA and many A's.
AAA organizations cannot be affiliated with AA/A and are by themselves.
Sounds good so far. Here's the downside, these organizations are privatley owned and eventhough they are 'non profit' the owners make money at it. As a result it is quite pricey to play in the GTHL. There are a number of GTHL teams with paid coaches.
If you live outside of the GTHL boundaries you play where you live. These organizations typically have houseleague all the way up to AAA teams. They are community based and generally subsidized by the city or region. To play there is cheaper than in the GTHL but you don't pick where you want to play. So if the coach in your age group is a total jerk you're stuck with him. You can ask for a release, but only after the first tryout. Some organizations will not give releases other will not allow imports. Which makes it a real pain in the ass.
A couple of situation I've seen last year.
One kid (a goalie) lives just east of the GTHL territory and wanted to come play on my sons team. The coach would have taken him, but his home organization doesn't give releases and now he's stuck. Would he live acrosse the street he could have played in the GTHL.
Another parent also from the eastend had a fall out with the organization and wanted to get out. They wouldn't give him a release, so he moved his wife and kid within the GTHL boundaries in order for his kid to play there. He still lives outside of the GTHL boundaries.
One of our current goalies also is from outside the GTA. After he got cut from his hometown AAA team he got a release. But he had to get 6 releases in total as each organization between his hometown and the GTA had to release him.
For those that are familiar with the area. He is from Hamilton and had to be released by both Hamilton teams, Burlington, Oakville, Halton Hills and Brampton.

Nbr-17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2007, 09:08 AM
  #95
Crosbyfan
Registered User
 
Crosbyfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbr-17 View Post
In Ontario in general you play where you live.
A little bit of an exception is the GTA. In the GTA you would normally play in GTHL. Within the GTHL there are no geographical restriction. You can play on any of the 12 AAA organizations, about 40 or so AA and many A's.
AAA organizations cannot be affiliated with AA/A and are by themselves.
Sounds good so far. Here's the downside, these organizations are privatley owned and eventhough they are 'non profit' the owners make money at it. As a result it is quite pricey to play in the GTHL. There are a number of GTHL teams with paid coaches.
If you live outside of the GTHL boundaries you play where you live. These organizations typically have houseleague all the way up to AAA teams. They are community based and generally subsidized by the city or region. To play there is cheaper than in the GTHL but you don't pick where you want to play. So if the coach in your age group is a total jerk you're stuck with him. You can ask for a release, but only after the first tryout. Some organizations will not give releases other will not allow imports. Which makes it a real pain in the ass.
A couple of situation I've seen last year.
One kid (a goalie) lives just east of the GTHL territory and wanted to come play on my sons team. The coach would have taken him, but his home organization doesn't give releases and now he's stuck. Would he live acrosse the street he could have played in the GTHL.
Another parent also from the eastend had a fall out with the organization and wanted to get out. They wouldn't give him a release, so he moved his wife and kid within the GTHL boundaries in order for his kid to play there. He still lives outside of the GTHL boundaries.
One of our current goalies also is from outside the GTA. After he got cut from his hometown AAA team he got a release. But he had to get 6 releases in total as each organization between his hometown and the GTA had to release him.
For those that are familiar with the area. He is from Hamilton and had to be released by both Hamilton teams, Burlington, Oakville, Halton Hills and Brampton.
That's a pretty fair commute for work, never mind hockey. How many practices and games per week do they have?

Crosbyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2007, 09:40 AM
  #96
javorka
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brymel View Post
My son plays Tier I AAA hockey, which is the highest level of youth hockey that your kid can play. For reference, house/rec hockey is usually considered B league. Travel teams are your A teams, and your highest level of travel team is your AA team. This is what I call "club" hockey. AAA hockey in Illinois only starts at your squirt major year through Midget Major. Each AAA club in Illinois has one team at each level, so if your kid doesn't make a team, you don't play for that club. I do know that Minnesota is different. From what I understand, they don't or didn't adopt USA hockey rules, and are kind of on their own. Their high school system is a lot stronger then ours. So for many talented kids in Illinois, high school hockey isn't an option. AAA is.
So coaches start getting paid at which level?

Oddly, as far as I know (and I've been around a long time ) there has never been high school hockey here. On the other hand, maybe it's not so odd - there are so many opportunities for kids to play hockey outside of school that it's probably a better use of time (and finances) to offer other activities.

This is starting to change, though. At a high school a little way from here they are offering an academy-type program for the first time this year. The kids are in the regular academic program, but rather than a regular phys. ed. class they concentrate on hockey. There is no team, though, and they don't compete with other schools.

javorka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2007, 09:52 AM
  #97
javorka
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrill_me_mogilny View Post
I paid $250.00 for my son to play in house league, which includes a jersey and hockey socks. The most expensive league I found was about $350.00 I would prefer that the entrance fee be tacked onto the registration, mainly since I rarely carry cash and the arenas don't take debit! It's not like it's a huge amount to me but for some families that extra $10.00 minimum per game could be the difference between whether or not a kid plays.

One thing I noticed, some people really *****ed about the admission fee but gladly plunk down $5.00 for arena dogs and pop. Me, I bring my own coffee!
I agree with everything you said - except maybe the part about the coffee. Tim Horton's came into our area about five years ago and, like everywhere else, has taken over the market. People were bringing their own TH coffee into the arenas, and minor hockey ended up sending letters to the coaches asking them to ask their teams not to do that - in our area minor hockey operates the concessions in the arenas and makes the profit ie. they get the money, not THs. Doesn't make any difference to me, really, because I don't drink a lot of coffee anyway, but I can see minor hockey's point.

javorka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2007, 10:05 AM
  #98
Nbr-17
Registered User
 
Nbr-17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Stouffville, ON
Country: Germany
Posts: 516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosbyfan View Post
That's a pretty fair commute for work, never mind hockey. How many practices and games per week do they have?
Actually it's not that bad if you take the 407, keep in mind that Hamilton is in the same loop than Niagara and St. Catharines. So it can be quite the drive even if you play and live there.
I don't thik he had much of a choice as he got cut quite late and most teams were full.
My son has two practices and two games a week.

Nbr-17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2007, 05:12 PM
  #99
brymel
HFBoards Sponsor
 
brymel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 630
vCash: 500
Quote:
So coaches start getting paid at which level?
AAA hockey starts at Squirt Major. If we are assuming that only AAA coaches are paid, you can start with that. I do believe other coaches are paid as well. Just can't swear to it.

brymel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2007, 07:39 PM
  #100
thrill_me_mogilny
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Serbia
Posts: 1,316
vCash: 500
I can't think of paid coaches either, other than the OHL. Mind you in the GTA it isn't uncommon to have NHLers and AHLers volunteer. At this stage of the game no way would I pay the equivalent of university tuition($5000) for coaching.


Quote:
Originally Posted by javorka View Post
Oddly, as far as I know (and I've been around a long time ) there has never been high school hockey here. On the other hand, maybe it's not so odd - there are so many opportunities for kids to play hockey outside of school that it's probably a better use of time (and finances) to offer other activities.
Same here in the GTA. There are so many hockey opportunities outside of school that it wouldn't make sense to have a high school programme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by javorka View Post
I agree with everything you said - except maybe the part about the coffee. Tim Horton's came into our area about five years ago and, like everywhere else, has taken over the market. People were bringing their own TH coffee into the arenas, and minor hockey ended up sending letters to the coaches asking them to ask their teams not to do that - in our area minor hockey operates the concessions in the arenas and makes the profit ie. they get the money, not THs.
The concessions aren't open for the 06:30 practices LOL. I don't mind paying snacks at the rink though because it's less fundraising for the parents.

thrill_me_mogilny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:26 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.