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Is Orr a Necessity at this point?

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Old
10-01-2007, 10:32 AM
  #26
philbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Just as a side note, Lessard is not under contract with us. We'd have to sign him to an NHL deal before he could play with us.
Fair enough, you get my point then.

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10-01-2007, 10:34 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
the question you should be asking is "Is Hollweg a necessity at this point"
Thank you!

If you were able to watch the preseason games, especially the last 2 (Islanders & Flyers games). Hollweg keeps taking unnecessary penalty and most of his hits were borderline. If he keeps it up, he will be a liability more than he is a necessity. If you watch Orr, he is trying to play his game and improve on it. He can only utilize the preseason to his advantage and show Renney (even though they already love Orr already). If Hollweg doesn't get smarter and be more careful with his hits .. he will end up like Steve Downie!

Those last two games, Orr didn't want to fight but at times he needed to send a message (i.e. Jason Smith). All the crowd that Hollweg drew (with the penalty he takes) Orr was like "not again". LOL I love the fighting and the rough stuff in hockey but we can't have Hollweg out there costing them 2 points. We can't have Drury and Shanny fighting to protect Jagr and the other team mates.

Orr is not only necessary but he can only improve his game and protect (as much as he can) his team mates.

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10-01-2007, 10:35 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
Exactly, and I get soooooooo frustrated how they think guys like Hollweg and Orr takes up spaces for our guys.

LISTEN, the 4th line doesn't play much. They'd probably get about 5 min. a game, is that what you want for Dawes???? If they can't get consistent ice time, they should be in Hartford.

The lines should be:

Straka- Drury/Gomez - Jagr
Shanny - Drury/Gomez- Avery
Prucha - Dubinsky/AA- Callahan
Hollweg- Betts-Orr

Yes I know, Hossa doesn't have a spot and I like Hossa too. I don't want to get rid of Hossa but I think Prucha is better. Also, a prospect center gets the nod over Hossa. Hossa a nice player to have in case of an injury or if someone is slumping. He'll end up having a lousy year due to not playing much ice time, we sign him to an extension and he'll have ice time next year when Straka, and Shanny are gone. Having Hossa on the 4th line is a waste too, I rather have our enforcers on the 4th line and not mess with it.
If memory serves, the Sabres rolled 4 lines for 06' they did pretty well.

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10-01-2007, 10:40 AM
  #29
NYR Viper
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they did pretty well until the playoffs when they got puched around by the sens....that didnt work...and their fourth line on nights when they needed phsicality was a big strong line of mair-peters-gaustad....big guys who would drop the gloves

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10-01-2007, 10:41 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philbo View Post
Fair enough, you get my point then.
Sure do, and I wasn't disagreeing with the point of your post. Just making sure everyone was clear on Lessard's status, since I've seen people mentioning him a lot recently.

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Old
10-01-2007, 11:36 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
they did pretty well until the playoffs when they got puched around by the sens....that didnt work...and their fourth line on nights when they needed phsicality was a big strong line of mair-peters-gaustad....big guys who would drop the gloves
So you're saying that a line of Holly/Betts/Orr would get more minutes in a confrence final series?

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10-01-2007, 11:46 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
the question you should be asking is "Is Hollweg a necessity at this point"
Awesome point. Ryan is a favorite of mine but man does this guy stir the pot or what? With Hollweg and Avery on this team one of our stars is going to be injuried as payback and I hope it isn't serious. The fact Hollweg hit hard and sometimes late is a issue plus with the entire Islanders team looking to kill him already the season is going to tbe fun

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Old
10-01-2007, 12:05 PM
  #33
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Am I the only one here that has actually been impressed by Orr's play in the pre-season. And I'm talking about his PLAY, not his fighting. I was at the game vs. the Islanders on Friday night and I remember making multiple comments to my friends about how Orr actually looked like a hockey player now. It was great to see.

Not that my statement really needs to be qualified, but I have been a vocal anti-Orr guy in the past, as well.

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Old
10-01-2007, 01:08 PM
  #34
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Orr = YES.

Hollweg.. at this point I am at a crossroad. I love seeing him out there, throwing big hits, drawing penalties (although receiving a few too many), and such.. But I think we could use his spot for another defensive offensmen at this point.

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Old
10-01-2007, 01:28 PM
  #35
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My feelings regarding Hollweg are the same as they regarding Orr. He's fine for a guy who will play for five minutes a game and be a physical prefense. If he can stay out of the box, it's fine. Who would you prefer to be playing 5 mins a night?

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10-01-2007, 02:50 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philbo View Post
We played our division rivals AHL goon squads this pre-season. Hardly a fair indicator of what the season will bring. W/ the firepower that the NYR will have on it's PP, teams would be flat out foolish to be intentionaly running our stars. Chucking Orr now, could allow the keeping of Dawes in the big city. If we're in dire need of a bodyguard when we face PHI, NYI, then a quick bus ride for Lessard would be fine.

Lines could be-

Hossa/Drury/JJ
Shanny/Gomer/Dawes (Prucha, Cally)
Avery/Dubi/Prucha (Dawes, Cally)
Straka/Betts/Calli(Holly)

Clearly not going to happen, because he's a Renney fave, but it could've been an option.
Dawes wouldn't be the beneficiary of Orr not on the team, because as stated before me, the only way you justified this is by puting Straka on the 4th with both Avery AND Prucha on the third. Just won't happen. As for playing against the goon squads of our division rivals, yes obviously I know that. But you have to think about the hatred around the league and how teams will be gunning for the Rangers. Orr won't stop that completely but he does have some deterrent quality. Or the very least gets tossed along with the other teams goon, negating at least him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
i dont think you can judge orr's importance based on the preseason. there isn't going to be 5 fights a game during the season.
No there will not be 5 fights a game, but if there is one every three games, wouldn't (shouldn't) he be the one to do it?

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Old
10-01-2007, 02:58 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Alfie Mexes View Post
what he said.

I dont know if you saw the preseason games, but Orr was necessary to knock some players out so that they wont take runs at our players. Hollweg did a great job against Philly but Im much more comfortable when Orr is in the lineup to protect. But its not important how I feel, its important how the team feels with Orr in the lineup and I think hes proven that they all can rely on him. "If someones taking shots at you, I will clean their clocks, so dont worry guys and play your games." Thats pretty much the message Orr is sending out.
Hola my friend, long time no talk. To add to what you said, I also think that Orr adds some toughness mentality to the team. Maybe I'm stretching it here, but guys like Dubinsky and Callahan probably feel better about being able to go at it with the other teams secondary goons when they know Orr is handling the main one/ones. Who would've thought they would see Tyutin and Pock mix it up (seperate incidents obviously)?

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Old
10-01-2007, 03:07 PM
  #38
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last year the team played better when orr was in the lineup...when he is sitting on the bench everyone else in the lineup becomes tougher, braver, more aggressive, etc and that makes the team better.

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10-01-2007, 03:44 PM
  #39
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A goon that can skate and score please...

The role he is trying to fill is a necessity on this team
Doubtlessly
Especially with 24 games against Flyers, NYI and Devils that could get very ugly very fast.
But the question remains if he is the right person to fill that role?
Only time will tell...

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Old
10-01-2007, 03:51 PM
  #40
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I would love to see Orr gain a bit more speed so that he can get in on the forecheck and pound the defenceman. It would remain me of a young Sandy McCarthy when he was with the Flyers.

He loved to get in on the D and force the issue.

That's what I love so much about Hollweg. Send him in there and make sure he arrives with ill will. He (Hollweg), as much as Orr fills a need on this team and his value really can't be measured.

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10-01-2007, 03:56 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
i dont think you can judge orr's importance based on the preseason. there isn't going to be 5 fights a game during the season.

No, but you can base it on the first half of last season when teams continually took runs at our players when he was out of the lineup without recourse. Orr is far more important to the success of this team than his actual hockey playing indicates.

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10-01-2007, 04:04 PM
  #42
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agreed but my post was in regards to somebody who said look at what he did in the preseason. if were going judge if a player like orr makes the team based on his preseason scraps, then dale purinton should have been a regular starter for the rangers. i want orr in the lineup so that the consequence of taking a run at jagr isn't fighting ryan hollweg. thats the only reason orr makes the team. fights in preseason imo don't mean to much.

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Old
10-01-2007, 04:16 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
agreed but my post was in regards to somebody who said look at what he did in the preseason. if were going judge if a player like orr makes the team based on his preseason scraps, then dale purinton should have been a regular starter for the rangers. i want orr in the lineup so that the consequence of taking a run at jagr isn't fighting ryan hollweg. thats the only reason orr makes the team. fights in preseason imo don't mean to much.
That would be me. And that's not what I meant, I said that the preseason proved he is vital to the team. Not "Wow that guy won a bunch of fights!" because then I would be advocating Godzilla Fritz much more than Orr. I meant that the preseason strengthened the argument made for Orr to be on this team.

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10-01-2007, 04:28 PM
  #44
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With players like Avery and Hollweg - the Rangers need somebody who can go with Brashear, Laraque, etc. because you know they'll be coming.

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Old
10-01-2007, 04:37 PM
  #45
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orr is a necessity almost every nite...period end of story....anyone who thinks guys like dubi or callahan or even shanny could take on the other teams best fighters are insane...nor do we want them to

hollweg is exactly what this team needs....a fast hard-hitting forward....we need a guy who will fly with reckless abandon and make the opposing defence nervous with the puck in their corners and lose the puck....5-6 shifts from him and they have that in the back of their mind for the rest of the game.....then when they know someone is on them they think they have to ruchand make a bad play etc......hollweg is a better player than many people give him credti for....i read somewhere last year that jagr said he was surprised by hollwegs offensive skills in some practices when he was playing with him and against him.....he fits his role perfectly on the team....a guy who isnt afraid to mix it up and throw people off of their game.....come playoff time he will be the player we need....strong hard-hittting forward

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Old
10-01-2007, 05:06 PM
  #46
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regular season orr is probably a necessity against teams that have goons..

playoffs orr is a scratch....

Orr improved his skating a bit which is good to see but he is far from an NHL skater....

The thing with Orr is with the Rangers being the team that brings it to the other team (not this nonesense theory that the Rangers are always victims) Orr might be needed to protect not Jagr Gomez and the skill guys but Avery, Callahan, and Hollweg

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Old
10-01-2007, 07:54 PM
  #47
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His skating has improved, and in the 5 minutes a night he's going to play he does have a use on the team. If he had more hockey skills, most of us would be happier, but he can fight, and that's why he's playing.

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Old
10-01-2007, 08:14 PM
  #48
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I think Orr has a role and serves a purpose.

I don't think he's a guy who will play 70+ games though.

I like Orr, I just don't think he's talked about way too much for what he actually is.

A 55 games, 5 minute a night enforcer who (in my opinion at least) is just a cut below the elite fighters.

Fact is that he's talked about more than just about anyone on this team not named Jaromir, Henrik or Brendan. It's kind of overkill.

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Old
10-01-2007, 09:20 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
At the most, I think we will need Orr for 30-40 games max..
I think it's gonna end up being more than that. You're gonna be looking at more like 50-65. No question you'll need him against the Flyers, Islanders, Devils, and Pens, but also the Caps, Sens, and Bruins, and also some of the time against the Leafs, Sabres, Thrash, and Lightning. Add a few games here and there against the softer teams, and you're looking at around 60 games.

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Old
10-01-2007, 10:06 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by BGDDYKWL View Post
I think it's gonna end up being more than that. You're gonna be looking at more like 50-65. No question you'll need him against the Flyers, Islanders, Devils, and Pens, but also the Caps, Sens, and Bruins, and also some of the time against the Leafs, Sabres, Thrash, and Lightning. Add a few games here and there against the softer teams, and you're looking at around 60 games.
That's my guess.

I think you're also looking at times when there will be injuries, etc. The other X factor is going to be Hossa. If Hossa doesn't break out of his pre-season funk I don't think he's going to be getting into a ton of games.

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