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Is Orr a Necessity at this point?

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Old
10-02-2007, 12:52 AM
  #51
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I think it boils down to being in a very tough division, and needing to be a difficult team to play against. That's the necessity of it to me.

You need guys that can hit, agitate and fire up their mates. Hollweg and Avery do that well, not to mention Cally and Dubi. You need leadership, we have tons. You need Five Star Talent - Check.

Sometimes behind all that You need a Cop. Orr.....is getting there. I see him evolving, elevating even. He's getting better in any case.

This is a good line up on paper that has a chance to be very solid on the ice. A nice blend of youth, experience, talent and grit. 11 roster players 25 or under. I like what I'm seeing.


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Old
10-02-2007, 06:30 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by rangers5 View Post
With all the attention that Hollweg and Avery are going to draw from the other teams, do you all think at this point that we need Orr in the lineup everyday for protective purposes? I know Hossa can provide better play along the boards and kill penalties, but it seems to me that a team with Avery Hollweg and Callahan, three tough but small pests, as well as a slew of talented forwards that need protection, that Orr needs to be a fixture on the 4th line.....Thoughts?
Yes Tom we do. Don't you remember the Cap & Philly games last year when you sat Orr out?

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10-02-2007, 09:19 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
the question you should be asking is "Is Hollweg a necessity at this point"
The answer is.......YES!!!

This team definitely needs Hollweg, Avery and Orr in the lineup, .......for at least 85% of the games.

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10-02-2007, 09:23 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
The answer is.......YES!!!

This team definitely needs Hollweg, Avery and Orr in the lineup, .......for at least 85% of the games.
yea i agree,and strudwick can fight as well. And Staal has fought in juniors I believe.

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10-02-2007, 09:29 AM
  #55
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look. i like hollweg, i jsut don't think we need him, he's redundant at this point. I'd rather have a roleplayer in his 4th line spot who you can at least throw out on the pk once in a while. Avery, Callahan, Doobie- these guys all throw hits....but htey do other things too, Hollweg doesn't.

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10-02-2007, 09:48 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
look. i like hollweg, i jsut don't think we need him, he's redundant at this point. I'd rather have a roleplayer in his 4th line spot who you can at least throw out on the pk once in a while. Avery, Callahan, Doobie- these guys all throw hits....but htey do other things too, Hollweg doesn't.
So who would you replace him with?

The way you describe Hollweg, and you describe him correctly IMO, he sounds like the perfect 4th liner for this team. Especially because he's not going to play more than 6 minutes a night on the average.

So if you take out Hollweg, who do play in his place?

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10-02-2007, 09:50 AM
  #57
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Yes Strudwick can fight if need be, but if we're using him on D, we put ourselves in a bad spot because we lose a dman when he's in the box or kicked out. Dressing him as a forward is not much better, as I don't think he's that much better at anything than Orr, and he doesn't fight as well. Like others have said, Orr's value is primarily that he enforces, but it's also in that you don't have to worry about slowing his developmnet if he only plays 5 minutes a night. We have a dozen guys in Hartford with more skill, no question. But they all would suffer from lack of playing time. Orr serves a purpose and he keeps a place warm, and when he's no longer useful, he's easy to walk away from. Enforcers go that route anyway. When they're young and full of fire they're great. Then they get the big deal, make a million dollars a year, get married and have a few kids, and all of the sudden wifey doesn't want to explain why daddy's all over the TV acting like a monster when she's at the country club or dropping the kids off at kindergarten. It happens. Let him enjoy his run, it'll be over soon enough...

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10-02-2007, 10:05 AM
  #58
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We need all these guys right now, and the most important thing is that they are meshing well as a team and evan as a quasi-line...

Without a doubt, for 75% of the games we need the speed, energy, hitting and forechecking ability of Hollweg on the 4th line. Not to mention teams are about 100X more concerned with his hits then they are Orr's fists (only goons give them a second thought).

But, without a doubt , for at least 50% of the games we need the fists and presence of Orr. Not to mention that the team really feels comfortable with him in the line-up..

I'm a little leery of what Hossa might do to the 4th line..But, we'll see

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10-02-2007, 10:20 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
We need all these guys right now, and the most important thing is that they are meshing well as a team and evan as a quasi-line...

Without a doubt, for 75% of the games we need the speed, energy, hitting and forechecking ability of Hollweg on the 4th line. Not to mention teams are about 100X more concerned with his hits then they are Orr's fists (only goons give them a second thought).

But, without a doubt , for at least 50% of the games we need the fists and presence of Orr. Not to mention that the team really feels comfortable with him in the line-up..

I'm a little leery of what Hossa might do to the 4th line..But, we'll see
Hossa does nothing for me on the 4th line. That line will be a gritty, energy, physical line that comes out, creates havoc on the ice and then goes back to the bench. Hossa does not fit in that mold.

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10-02-2007, 10:23 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Hossa does nothing for me on the 4th line. That line will be a gritty, energy, physical line that comes out, creates havoc on the ice and then goes back to the bench. Hossa does not fit in that mold.
No arguement here, but we will see him there..maybe even on opneing night..Lord knows, we can't damage Marcel's confidence..

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10-02-2007, 10:23 AM
  #61
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singin, you dont think a guy like mike johnson would be a better fit? he could play the 6 minutes of even strength, then you could throw him on the pk so Shanny/Straka and their old legs don't have to go out there. Ortmeyer also would've been a much better option...no reason to let that guy go.

On top of that, if there's an injury, a guy like hollweg does not move up, he's a borderline nhl player.

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10-02-2007, 10:25 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Hossa does nothing for me on the 4th line. That line will be a gritty, energy, physical line that comes out, creates havoc on the ice and then goes back to the bench. Hossa does not fit in that mold.
It's not like Hossa is a bad forchecker or inept defensively. He's just not going to contribute offense like he does playing with skilled players and more minutes. He's not the most physical either but as people have said a million times, he's a big body that is strong along the boards, so he can at least keep the puck deep in the offensive end.

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10-02-2007, 10:26 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
singin, you dont think a guy like mike johnson would be a better fit? he could play the 6 minutes of even strength, then you could throw him on the pk so Shanny/Straka and their old legs don't have to go out there. Ortmeyer also would've been a much better option...no reason to let that guy go.

On top of that, if there's an injury, a guy like hollweg does not move up, he's a borderline nhl player.
I agree. totally. For about 50% of the games Johnson would be a much better fit. Holly-Betts-Johnson could be a nice line..

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10-02-2007, 10:31 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by JohnnyChoice View Post
It's not like Hossa is a bad forchecker or inept defensively. He's just not going to contribute offense like he does playing with skilled players and more minutes. He's not the most physical either but as people have said a million times, he's a big body that is strong along the boards, so he can at least keep the puck deep in the offensive end.
At his best, I agree that Hossa can be a good complimnetary wing on the 1st 2-3 lines. Not sure about him being a benefit on the 4th line...If he replaces Holly, then we have no physical element on the 4th line and no forwards that hit----Hossa just doesn't and Orr is too dam slow and can;t change direction....However, Hossa for Orr against some opponents could be helpful...

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10-02-2007, 10:31 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
singin, you dont think a guy like mike johnson would be a better fit? he could play the 6 minutes of even strength, then you could throw him on the pk so Shanny/Straka and their old legs don't have to go out there. Ortmeyer also would've been a much better option...no reason to let that guy go.

On top of that, if there's an injury, a guy like hollweg does not move up, he's a borderline nhl player.
I wasn't talking about going out and getting someone. I'm talking about better in-house, in-organization options. But to answer your question, I don't really know enough about Mike Johnson to say he would be a good addition or better option to what is already here.

Hollweg is a borderline NHLer. But so too is Ortmeyer, IMO. And Ortmeyer last year wasn't the same player he had been in previous years. And I'm really not sure how much he has left — so I wasn't that upset when they let him go.

As far as the PK goes, I think it will be fine Betts and Drury are excellent penalty killers. It seems as though Callahan will get a shot and Avery might as well.

I don't love Hollweg, but he seems to be a decent fit for the role he's going to play. Assuming he can stay out of the box.

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10-02-2007, 10:34 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
I agree. totally. For about 50% of the games Johnson would be a much better fit. Holly-Betts-Johnson could be a nice line..
I think that TheHotRock was talking about Johnson replacing Hollweg.

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10-02-2007, 10:37 AM
  #67
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I agree with what you're saying, there really is no better in house option than Hollweg. He's a better option ont he 4th line than strudwick or pock...hossa isn't a 4th liner, dawes sure as hell isn't....a guy like byers still needs to develop.

But I wouldn't call Jed a borderline nhler...he's an above average shot blocker and a really solid penalty killer....there will always be a spot on a team for a guy like that. You can't say the same for hollweg.

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10-02-2007, 10:38 AM
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most of what I'm saying comes from the fact that I really really really don't wanna see shanny and his old legs on the pk. Our team would really benefit from having a pk specialist 4th liner.

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10-02-2007, 10:39 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
most of what I'm saying comes from the fact that I really really really don't wanna see shanny and his old legs on the pk. Our team would really benefit from having a pk specialist 4th liner.
I think we can all agree on that.

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10-02-2007, 10:43 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
At his best, I agree that Hossa can be a good complimnetary wing on the 1st 2-3 lines. Not sure about him being a benefit on the 4th line...If he replaces Holly, then we have no physical element on the 4th line and no forwards that hit----Hossa just doesn't and Orr is too dam slow and can;t change direction....However, Hossa for Orr against some opponents could be helpful...
Agree that Hollweg is better suited to the fourth line than Hossa. As for Orr, I think it depends on the game/opponent. Just saying Hossa can still contribute on the 4th line unlike others.

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10-02-2007, 10:47 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think that TheHotRock was talking about Johnson replacing Hollweg.
I know, just havin some fun..! Too tight around here sometimes..

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10-02-2007, 02:57 PM
  #72
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regular season orr is probably a necessity against teams that have goons..

playoffs orr is a scratch....

Orr improved his skating a bit which is good to see but he is far from an NHL skater....

The thing with Orr is with the Rangers being the team that brings it to the other team (not this nonesense theory that the Rangers are always victims) Orr might be needed to protect not Jagr Gomez and the skill guys but Avery, Callahan, and Hollweg

Usually disagree with you about Colton Orr and his impact on the team but you make an excellent point here.

With Hollywood and Avery playing right on the edge of clean/dirty as well as all threes ability to yap and initiate post whistle scrums the Rangers will need to back up a lot of the smack talk.

You take away from Hollweg and Averys effectivness if the other team sends out their "tough guy" to pound the piss out of these two. Or of course Hollweg can attempt to stick up for himself and get his hat handed to him.....

Is Avery going to be his obnoxious self knowing that the Rangers do not have their attack dog sitting there waiting to break a face if things get out of hand??

How about when Callahan gets lined up along the blueline or gets under the skin of a D-man like Witt, Orpik, Exelby,White etc... Who is going to send a message verbally or with his hands???

Perhaps this is where SOS and I can begin to disagree again. Colton Orr is more of a necessity now then he was last year and Tom Renney knows this... I expect to see Orr in about 65- 70 games.

Wouldn't be shocked if he is scratched on opening night though.

I think the Renney is going to be looking hard at Hossa right from the get go. The coaching staff knows what it has in Orr... Hossa on the other hand is still an enigma....


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Old
10-02-2007, 04:04 PM
  #73
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I really think that Orr's importance to the team varies greatly on a game by game basis. At this point I'm like to see him in 40-50 games this year. It's good to have someone like that around for the times you do need it.

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10-02-2007, 04:10 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by synergy27 View Post
Am I the only one here that has actually been impressed by Orr's play in the pre-season. And I'm talking about his PLAY, not his fighting. I was at the game vs. the Islanders on Friday night and I remember making multiple comments to my friends about how Orr actually looked like a hockey player now. It was great to see.

Not that my statement really needs to be qualified, but I have been a vocal anti-Orr guy in the past, as well.
Nope Orr has looked better than he did last year and honestly I'm coming around. I don't mind him playing at all. Hell he even does a decent job screening in front of the net (though his hands are quite possibly the worst on the team, even worse than Hollweg).

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10-02-2007, 04:25 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
singin, you dont think a guy like mike johnson would be a better fit? he could play the 6 minutes of even strength, then you could throw him on the pk so Shanny/Straka and their old legs don't have to go out there. Ortmeyer also would've been a much better option...no reason to let that guy go.

On top of that, if there's an injury, a guy like hollweg does not move up, he's a borderline nhl player.
agree with you about ortmeyer. i like hollweg but i think ortmeyer would be a much better option on the 4th line.

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