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Shanny is a 3rd Line Player

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Old
10-11-2007, 03:10 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bretzky-StaalFor07 View Post
i'd rather see

Prucha Drury Jagr
Callahan Gomez Shanahan
Straka Betts Hossa
Orr Dubinsky Byers

Hollweg makes Ortmeyer look like Bure. He has 0 offense. ZERO. I really think on a championship caliber team, your 4th liners having just a LITTLE bit of an offensive touch might come in handy in the playoffs.
so you'd ice Orr???

i appreciate what your saying but i'd rather Hollweg get more ice time and have Orr as a bench cop, coming on when needed.

I like your top 2 lines but we really need Betts off that 3rd line. He's a good 4th liner, a great one often, but he aint a 3rd liner... his offense isnt good enough.

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10-11-2007, 04:18 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
so you'd ice Orr???

i appreciate what your saying but i'd rather Hollweg get more ice time and have Orr as a bench cop, coming on when needed.

I like your top 2 lines but we really need Betts off that 3rd line. He's a good 4th liner, a great one often, but he aint a 3rd liner... his offense isnt good enough.
Yes, Orr for certain games against more physical teams who are gonna run our players. Hollweg can take his spot for the other games if he keeps bringing energy and CLEAN hits.

I disagree that Betts doesn't have enough offense. Everyone wants Dubinsky to be that 3rd line C, and I sure hope he gets enough of a chance to see a clear result either way, but I think Betts has looked very good so far. With the right linemates I can see him putting in 10-15 goals. He has a very underrated wristshot and his skating is excellent. I'm fine for him being the defensively responsible 4th line center, but if Dubinsky doesn't pan out the way we all hope, I don't think having Betts center the third line would be a big cause for concern, considering the wingers he'd be playing with. He scored a few goals last year, including a highlight goal against Scott Neidermeyer. And that was spending almost all of the year with Hollweg and Orr as linemates. He thinks defense first and I love him for it, but in my opinion, he may be a good fit to center a third line as well.

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10-11-2007, 04:29 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Bretzky-StaalFor07 View Post
Yes, Orr for certain games against more physical teams who are gonna run our players. Hollweg can take his spot for the other games if he keeps bringing energy and CLEAN hits.

I disagree that Betts doesn't have enough offense. Everyone wants Dubinsky to be that 3rd line C, and I sure hope he gets enough of a chance to see a clear result either way, but I think Betts has looked very good so far. With the right linemates I can see him putting in 10-15 goals. He has a very underrated wristshot and his skating is excellent. I'm fine for him being the defensively responsible 4th line center, but if Dubinsky doesn't pan out the way we all hope, I don't think having Betts center the third line would be a big cause for concern, considering the wingers he'd be playing with. He scored a few goals last year, including a highlight goal against Scott Neidermeyer. And that was spending almost all of the year with Hollweg and Orr as linemates. He thinks defense first and I love him for it, but in my opinion, he may be a good fit to center a third line as well.
we agree on the rough justice on the 4th line but several writers (unfortunately inc. Brooks) have noted that playing with Betts is making Cally and Prucha's game suffer offensively. If Dubi doesnt pan out initially, send him down and then if thats the only option left then play Betts.... but i dont see what you can find out about Dubinsky when the last 2 games he has played a combined 13 minutes, with only 3 last night....

we wont know what he can do if thats all the time he's getting.

With so much uncertainty abiut the 3rd line center, Shanny has to play 2nd line to be effective - he needs a center thats developed offensively and knows his palce - Drury or Gomez.

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10-11-2007, 07:45 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
Before someone wastes their time by replying to this with the now fashionable response of "its only 3 games" or "its early don't panic" response. This isn't something that in my mind is gonna remedy itself like the other problems this team has. Our inept Power Play and inability to handle passes cleanly are problems that hopefully will be resolved as we play more games. Shanny playing on the 2nd line is something I don't think will fix itself.

Since Shanny suffered the concussion last year he has been a shell of his former self. I know he had a decent series against Atlanta but 3 good games in the past 8 months isn't a proper indication of someones ability. Lets acknowledge what we know about Shanny. He is a great leader, has tons of guts, doesn't back down from anyone, and is a Hall Of Fame player that the young guys look up to. I like Shanny as a player always have but I think we are seeing the 1998-2005 NY Ranger philosophy with how this coaching staff is handling him. He is being given icetime because of what he "already" accomplished, not what he is "currently" capable of. The guy is a step slower than everyone else on the team outside of Colton Orr. Is it possible that all the years of playing the bruising power forward position have finally taken a toll on his legs? Whatever the reason is, present day Shanny doesn't belong on our #2 line. There are 4 wingers who are simply BETTER than him at this point in his career, Prucha, Cally, Jagr, and Straka.

So what do we do? Do we do what we did with Messier and give him icetime he doesn't deserve because of what he use to be. Or perhaps we do what we did with Holik and play him somewhere he doesn't belong based on how much money he makes? I'd like to think we have learned from past mistakes.

Lines I'd like to see:

1st Line: Straka-Drury-Jagr
2nd Line: Prucha-Gomez-Callahan

3rd Line: Shanny-Dubinsky-Hossa
4th Line: Orr-Betts-Hollweg

(Drury and Gomez could be interchangeable depending on who they mesh best with)

My gut tells me we are gonna see Messier Part II with Shanny this year. An aging vet who gets icetime over younger more deserving players because of his past accomplishments.
I like your lines. And as good of shape Shanny is in, Gomez is fast as hell and Shanny is not25 any more and must be hard fpr him night in and out to keep up with the speed, while Gomez,Prucha and Callahan may be just perfect. 2 young guys who can skate and finish, with acenter like Gomez who can skate as well plus is a excellent play maker it would work perfectly i think.

A line of Shannahan-Dubisnky -Avery ( when he is back and healthy would be great for grit and toughness and putting up some points, all 3 play a hrad nosed game. Plus playing Shanny with Dubs would be great for him as a mentor.

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10-11-2007, 10:08 AM
  #30
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the rangers never should've resigned him.

he's old...he's slow....he's in the way of Prucha, Dawes, and Callahan on the top 2 lines and power play....he's old...he's slow...he's overpaid...he got the fans with his "i only want to be on the Rangers" garbage...

but hey we get to pay him next year too....awesome!!!


Thanks Shanny!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old
10-11-2007, 10:19 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
the rangers never should've resigned him.

he's old...he's slow....he's in the way of Prucha, Dawes, and Callahan on the top 2 lines and power play....he's old...he's slow...he's overpaid...he got the fans with his "i only want to be on the Rangers" garbage...

but hey we get to pay him next year too....awesome!!!


Thanks Shanny!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks SOS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, there is no sense to keep him on 2nd. It will take some time though before Callahan will be switched with the guy. Shanny is a good defensive wing at this time in his career. Avery-Betts-Shanny would be a good shutdown line.

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10-11-2007, 10:31 AM
  #32
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Shanny is big time depth, and he's still go a wicked shot.

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10-11-2007, 10:32 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
the rangers never should've resigned him.

he's old...he's slow....he's in the way of Prucha, Dawes, and Callahan on the top 2 lines and power play....he's old...he's slow...he's overpaid...he got the fans with his "i only want to be on the Rangers" garbage...

but hey we get to pay him next year too....awesome!!!


Thanks Shanny!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you can't have a rookie lineup pal.

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Old
10-11-2007, 10:34 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
Shanny is big time depth, and he's still go a wicked shot.
Great, need some scoring form 3rd...

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10-11-2007, 10:41 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bretzky-StaalFor07 View Post
i'd rather see

Prucha Drury Jagr
Callahan Gomez Shanahan
Straka Betts Hossa
Orr Dubinsky Byers

Line1: Prucha and Drury are speed demons and are so good at hunting down pucks. Jagr will do his thing and has 2 finishers with him. I really think this is Prucha's year. I want to see him on the top line.

Line2: Callahan and Gomez are also speed demons. Gomez will carry into the zone on the rush with Cally to the side and Shanny a step or two behind coming down the slot. Gomez with 2 guys who like to shoot first and have great shots.

Line 3: Straka brings his speed and effort and doesn't have to be the "responsible" one on the line because Bettsy is the center. Hossa's work down low could lead to some chances for these two.

Line 4: Orr should be dressed for games against certain teams. You know which ones I'm talking about. Since Renney is trying this Betts on the 3rd, Dubinsky on the 4th experiment, I'd like to see another big body that Dubinsky would feel familiar with. Bring up Byers. He looked strong in pre-season. A good guy to have in the front of the net and can also bring energy. Which brings me to the energy-guy of the team: Hollweg. Hollweg makes Ortmeyer look like Bure. Ryan Hollweg has 0 offense. ZERO. I feel (and some may disagree) that Byers is capable of bringing just as much hitting, effort and energy. He scored a nice goal off a rebond in front of the net in pre-season. I think he should get another chance before mid-season. I really think on a championship caliber team, your 4th liners having just a LITTLE bit of an offensive touch might come in handy in the playoffs.

Hollweg gets almost no playing time and look at the players he's playing with, he's shown sparks of offensive at times. You got to have Hollweg in there over Orr.

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Old
10-11-2007, 10:42 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Great, need some scoring form 3rd...
I'd wouldn't oppose to him going to the third line.

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Old
10-11-2007, 11:16 AM
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THANKS YOU!!! I said this in the offseason when he signed his $5.5 mill (with bonuses) contract. It was the most selfish thing I have ever seen out of a so called character guy. That contract will likely hurt us next year. I have always loved the way Shanny plays the game but he is 2 steps too slow and looked awful in the playoffs last year. THERE IS NO CHEMISTRY ON THIS TEAM AND I'M TIRED OF BEING TOLD ITS TOO EARLY. I suffered through this nonsense for way to long over the past 10 years. You can't buy chemistry. Dawes needs to be brought up as he earned his spot and deserves a chance. He and Gomez were great together.
Shanny's only signed for this year, how does that hit the cap for next year?


http://www.nhlnumbers.com/nyr.html

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Old
10-11-2007, 11:17 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
you can't have a rookie lineup pal.
who want's an all rookie lineup?...Pal

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Old
10-11-2007, 11:21 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
I'd wouldn't oppose to him going to the third line.
man, you're right on the subject here

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10-11-2007, 11:22 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by bender13 View Post
Shanny's only signed for this year, how does that hit the cap for next year?


http://www.nhlnumbers.com/nyr.html
his bonus numbers will go to next season if the Rangers are over the cap..right now they are about a million over the cap...

thanks Captain Shanny!!!

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Old
10-11-2007, 11:23 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Shanny is no more a 3rd line player than Avery is. Right now I've seen most of the team playing well below their abilities.
ummmm but avery is a 3rd line player and not a 2nd line player

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10-11-2007, 11:29 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by bender13 View Post
Shanny's only signed for this year, how does that hit the cap for next year?


http://www.nhlnumbers.com/nyr.html
The reason his contract was set up with the bonuses is bc the Rangers can exceed the cap this yr and Shannys bonuses count NEXT YEAR

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10-11-2007, 12:04 PM
  #43
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Last year, Shanahan had 3 goals, 2 assists, +4 and 21 shots on goal through the first 3 games. Now compare that with this year.

I agree w/ Turcotte that you can't say it's too early, but he's been a different player since the 2/16/07 collision w/ Knuble. Nobody has come out of the gate like Shanny did last season, but if you recall the entire team slumped for the first 6 weeks, except for him.

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10-11-2007, 01:04 PM
  #44
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i like those lines....minus byers because he needs more than 5 mins a night

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10-11-2007, 01:19 PM
  #45
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well hossa is hurt...so i propose

jagr-drury-straka
shanahan-gomez-dawes
callahan-betts-prucha


i think now that avery and hossa are both out, renney has to start rolling three lines because i think it is putting too much pressure onthe first two....let the kids have a batter shot...however in order for that to happen the rangers need to stay out of the box

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Old
10-11-2007, 02:48 PM
  #46
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Whatever Renney decides, if our top two lines dont start producing within the next 7-10 games. I want Betts back where he belongs (on the 4th line).

If Dubinsky isn't ready, move Straka to center. Pick a line, any line. I don't want a center who can't feed our scoring wings, let alone see them when he's carrying the puck. I swear, Betts reminds me of a horse with blinkers.

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Old
10-11-2007, 03:58 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MortUWary View Post
Last year, Shanahan had 3 goals, 2 assists, +4 and 21 shots on goal through the first 3 games. Now compare that with this year.

I agree w/ Turcotte that you can't say it's too early, but he's been a different player since the 2/16/07 collision w/ Knuble. Nobody has come out of the gate like Shanny did last season, but if you recall the entire team slumped for the first 6 weeks, except for him.
I think Shanny made a heck of a run at to be ready for his first season in NY.

I saw him in the WCH's for Canada a few month before he got here in 06/07, he looked done. I wasn't suprised that nothing was worked out with Detroit, despite all the reports of Det wanting him back, for me that was like Slats saying they wanted Leetch back. Shanny had decent numbers his last seasons in Det, but was a complete no factor for them in 3 straight PO's. Allot of his pts there came from their high octane offensive game, don't misunderstand me now, but look at Mikael Samuelssons numbers there the last 2 seasons, he is in Shannys position.

Then he came here, and just looked reborn. Its possible that Shanny will improve during the season. Sometimes it takes a while for vets to get gooing. But in my subjective opinion Shanahan is a 3rd/4th lineer right now, in a ideal situation.

If the 3rd plays a big role, I would want him on a 4th.

Though, he should also get top minutes on the PP and late in games.

Dave Andrechuk played that role for Tampa when they won the cup. 4th line 5 on 5 gooing into the games. He then played top PP minutes, and was always used in the last minutes if Tampa needed a goal. That way he could concentrate on what he does best...

My lineup:
Hossa-Drury-Jagr
Straka-Gomez-Prucha
Avery-Betts-Callahan
Shanahan-Dubinsky-Orr
Staal-Rozsival
Tyutin-Girardi
Malik-Mara


PP1
Shanahan-Gomez-Jagr
Drury-Rozsival

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10-11-2007, 10:16 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
Before someone wastes their time by replying to this with the now fashionable response of "its only 3 games" or "its early don't panic" response. This isn't something that in my mind is gonna remedy itself like the other problems this team has. Our inept Power Play and inability to handle passes cleanly are problems that hopefully will be resolved as we play more games. Shanny playing on the 2nd line is something I don't think will fix itself.

Since Shanny suffered the concussion last year he has been a shell of his former self. I know he had a decent series against Atlanta but 3 good games in the past 8 months isn't a proper indication of someones ability. Lets acknowledge what we know about Shanny. He is a great leader, has tons of guts, doesn't back down from anyone, and is a Hall Of Fame player that the young guys look up to. I like Shanny as a player always have but I think we are seeing the 1998-2005 NY Ranger philosophy with how this coaching staff is handling him. He is being given icetime because of what he "already" accomplished, not what he is "currently" capable of. The guy is a step slower than everyone else on the team outside of Colton Orr. Is it possible that all the years of playing the bruising power forward position have finally taken a toll on his legs? Whatever the reason is, present day Shanny doesn't belong on our #2 line. There are 4 wingers who are simply BETTER than him at this point in his career, Prucha, Cally, Jagr, and Straka.

So what do we do? Do we do what we did with Messier and give him icetime he doesn't deserve because of what he use to be. Or perhaps we do what we did with Holik and play him somewhere he doesn't belong based on how much money he makes? I'd like to think we have learned from past mistakes.

Lines I'd like to see:

1st Line: Straka-Drury-Jagr
2nd Line: Prucha-Gomez-Callahan

3rd Line: Shanny-Dubinsky-Hossa
4th Line: Orr-Betts-Hollweg

(Drury and Gomez could be interchangeable depending on who they mesh best with)

My gut tells me we are gonna see Messier Part II with Shanny this year. An aging vet who gets icetime over younger more deserving players because of his past accomplishments.
I respect your opinion on this board, as you always bring up really good points.
With that being said, i cant agree here. i completely disagree.

Shanny's ALWAYS been a hot or not player, hes incredibley streaky. With respect to your point that we shouldn't give him ice time just because of his previous achievments, a point i agree with, i think that you need to give a guy with a skill set like shanny has; a chance, and one longer than 3 games. Its not because of his career goals that he gets ice time, its because of the skill that is still in his aging body. This man CAN still score. As a power forward, speed has never been one of his assets. Give shanny the respect of atleast a decent amount of games, no one can argue that he was born to put pucks in the net! Renney roles his lines. The 3rd line gets similar ice time to the 2nd line. Shanny is sure to score very little, and be not much of an asset playing with blair betts centering him. It would do us no good to put shanny there.

give it some time!

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Old
10-11-2007, 10:28 PM
  #49
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Too lazy to read every post but I'm with those who say that Shanny isn't incapable of contributing worthy of 2nd line minutes, but that the likes of Callahan or Prucha deserve and need it much more.

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Old
10-11-2007, 10:32 PM
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he's entering the dave andreychuk on tampa phase of his career. i don't know if he's a third liner, but i think on this team he should be one.

why not something like

hossa-straka-jagr
prucha-gomez-callahan
avery-drury-shanny
orr-betts-hollweg/ or dress 7 dmen and double shift drury and/or shanny (i think that would be interesting)

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