HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Shanny is a 3rd Line Player

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-16-2007, 03:51 PM
  #101
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 23,906
vCash: 145
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
who are you again?
A grammar teacher, obviously.



Just kidding man.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 03:52 PM
  #102
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
Tom...

I should make it clear that I wasn't advocating Dawes for the actual game time spot (that's another issue/debate, and realistically, for whatever reason, I didn't see it happen). I was suggesting such a move for practice purposes - not really sure what you get out of playing Strudwick on a wing. At least have a guy who has skill and can skate. Heck, Pock's a better option.

And boys, can we stop bickering?

SoS, by the way, I agree that salary "shouldn't" dictate squat. Of course, the reality is you pay a guy a certain amount because there is a specific expectation of that person and an expected role in which you expect that person to play. After time, if it's not working to expectations, a good coach will make adjustments accodringly. Drury was signed to play 18+ minutes per game. That's what he's done in the past, and that's what he should do here unti lhe shows that he's not fit for that kind of role. Playing on a third line, behind Jagr and a second line, is playing him out of a role for which you signed him, and as such, perhaps the money spent should've been spent somewhere else. On a side note, Drury's averaging over 23 minutes per game - wtf? There aren;'t enough forwards on this team who deserve ice time?

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 03:54 PM
  #103
JR#9*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,733
vCash: 500
the lines are still a joke and it all goes right back to the point about having 3 NHL calibre centers and one of those only capable of playing effectively on the 4th line.

All signs point to them knowing Dubi wasn't ready as of yet so they are complete morons for trading away Cullen with no backup plan in place.

Now all you have is mixing and matching and round pegs trying to get jammed into square holes and the result is the utter lack of chemistry we wind up seeing on the ice.

And while Shanny has gotten off somewhat to a slow start the calls for him to retire or that he is simply an embaressment is nothing short of a joke.

JR#9* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 03:59 PM
  #104
JR#9*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post

SoS, by the way, I agree that salary "shouldn't" dictate squat. Of course, the reality is you pay a guy a certain amount because there is a specific expectation of that person and an expected role in which you expect that person to play. After time, if it's not working to expectations, a good coach will make adjustments accodringly. Drury was signed to play 18+ minutes per game. That's what he's done in the past, and that's what he should do here unti lhe shows that he's not fit for that kind of role. Playing on a third line, behind Jagr and a second line, is playing him out of a role for which you signed him, and as such, perhaps the money spent should've been spent somewhere else. On a side note, Drury's averaging over 23 minutes per game - wtf? There aren;'t enough forwards on this team who deserve ice time?
Can people even say that Drury will be centering a "3rd line" when the "2nd line" is one that is centered by Blair F'in Betts?

I'd say Drury is staying as the 2nd line center and the wings in Prucha-Cally are being bumped up while Shanny-Straka are being demoted rather than Drury.

JR#9* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 04:07 PM
  #105
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,559
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I should make it clear that I wasn't advocating Dawes for the actual game time spot (that's another issue/debate, and realistically, for whatever reason, I didn't see it happen). I was suggesting such a move for practice purposes - not really sure what you get out of playing Strudwick on a wing. At least have a guy who has skill and can skate. Heck, Pock's a better option.

And boys, can we stop bickering?

SoS, by the way, I agree that salary "shouldn't" dictate squat. Of course, the reality is you pay a guy a certain amount because there is a specific expectation of that person and an expected role in which you expect that person to play. After time, if it's not working to expectations, a good coach will make adjustments accodringly. Drury was signed to play 18+ minutes per game. That's what he's done in the past, and that's what he should do here unti lhe shows that he's not fit for that kind of role. Playing on a third line, behind Jagr and a second line, is playing him out of a role for which you signed him, and as such, perhaps the money spent should've been spent somewhere else. On a side note, Drury's averaging over 23 minutes per game - wtf? There aren;'t enough forwards on this team who deserve ice time?
I think the problem is the Rangers have played behind often and Drury was centering Jagr...Also...the special teams time on the Rangers (both on the pp and pk) would seem like it's more then he saw with the Sabres...

Fletch Shanny is fine on the 3rd line and I agree his salary doesn't matter when picking the lineup.. (it does when picking the roster for the few who can't understand the difference which is what my issue is with Shanny..)

Son of Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 04:17 PM
  #106
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
SoS..

I do understand why Drury is playing more, but don't agree with him playing more, if that makes any sense. There must be a reason why he's averaged 18 over the last 5 seasons, and to increase 5 minutes per game, that seems like a pretty big jump. He's averaging less on the PK and a good deal more at ES and about a minute more on the PP (Gomez is also averaging a minute more on the PP - and here I worried about them getting the PP time - someone's getting screwed). We saw Shanny go from 16 minutes per game in DET to 20 last season and saw him deteriorate in December. Can't overplay these guys without reprocussions.

I agree that Shanny being on a third line wouldn't be bad, and if Dubi was the centerman on that line, I'd be all for it. It would be great experience for the kid. If Betts is a top three centerman...then I just have issues with that as a stand-alone issue.

I still am pretty adamant about Prucha and Cally not being linemates, however, and believe that he, straka and Drury are a better line, or he, Hossa and Drury, or he, Gomez and Straka, or whatever the combo you want to say, but not Cally. Too small on the wings. They do not create any skating room and cannot sustain pressure as a unit. It didn't worklast season and it doesn't look good this season (of course, nothing's looking good, so I'm going off last season moreso).

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 04:35 PM
  #107
TomLaidlaw
Registered User
 
TomLaidlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Transylvania
Country: Romania
Posts: 3,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I should make it clear that I wasn't advocating Dawes for the actual game time spot (that's another issue/debate, and realistically, for whatever reason, I didn't see it happen). I was suggesting such a move for practice purposes - not really sure what you get out of playing Strudwick on a wing. At least have a guy who has skill and can skate. Heck, Pock's a better option.
I agree, even if you don't play Dawes in the game this team needs to find some line chemistry, with the long layoff between games these practices could have been used to start building some chemistry within the lines. There is a better chance of that happening with Dawes on Jagrs wing than Strudwick. We are just treading water playing Strudwick there in practice.

I do disagree with you on the Cally and Prucha as linemates though Fletch. I think those two with a decent center could be a very solid line. I thought the Cally-Cullen-Prucha line was our best line in the Buffalo series last year. They are undersized but their tenacious forecheck and speed cause problems for opposing defensemen

TomLaidlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 04:50 PM
  #108
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
Correct me if I'm wrong but we can't even call up Dawes until we put Avery on Long Term injury which i don't think he is on right now. We are at the max amount of players w/ 23.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 04:54 PM
  #109
RMcDonagh
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,267
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but we can't even call up Dawes until we put Avery on Long Term injury which i don't think he is on right now. We are at the max amount of players w/ 23.
edit:nvm..I think you are right.

RMcDonagh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 04:57 PM
  #110
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
Jagr, Gomez, Straka, Drury, Shanny, Cally, Prucha, Hossa, Betts, Orr, Hollweg, Avery, Dubinsky, Staal, Roszival, Pock, Mara, Malik, Tyutin, Girardi, Strudwick, Lundqvist, Vally

That's 23

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 05:17 PM
  #111
TomLaidlaw
Registered User
 
TomLaidlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Transylvania
Country: Romania
Posts: 3,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Jagr, Gomez, Straka, Drury, Shanny, Cally, Prucha, Hossa, Betts, Orr, Hollweg, Avery, Dubinsky, Staal, Roszival, Pock, Mara, Malik, Tyutin, Girardi, Strudwick, Lundqvist, Vally

That's 23
Thanks Rags, I guess that explains why Dawes isn't being called up. This is the downside of carrying 8 defensemen.

TomLaidlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 05:19 PM
  #112
BigE
Registered User
 
BigE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
You're only taking into consideration how that unit works for like 4 seconds after they won the puck.
It was in response to the original comment regarding how the two lines differ in getting the puck into the zone. I understand that I've knocked you around in two consecutive GDT threads, but at the very least read what I'm saying - give yourself a shot.

Although I neglect to mention why I think Shanny and Gomez are a sound fit within the offensive zone, I do go on to address why I believe Drury and Jagr are a good fit together. However, since you're wondering...I'll tell you:

Gomez is very effective with his puck cycling; if you add Avery to the equation down-low you get a quick, strong tandem that is not easily knocked off the puck. They're both relentless and Avery draws enough attention that you can leave Shanahan as the high man looking to get open and set up for a shot (what he does best). This also has secondary benefits in the form of less wear and tear on the old man, himself. If he's not hustling and duking it out in the trenches, he's going to preserve himself a little better.

For me, it boils down to patience: nothing good happens overnight. We can't expect all of these guys to gel instantly, but the matchups I propose seem to suit each other well.

Cheers

BigE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 08:41 PM
  #113
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,116
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
There must be a reason why he's averaged 18 over the last 5 seasons, and to increase 5 minutes per game, that seems like a pretty big jump.
I'm sure that there are reasons. Just like there are reasons that Shanny only played only 16 minutes with no PK time during his last several years in Detroit.

True Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 08:47 PM
  #114
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
Laidlaw...

the Cullen/Cally/Prucha line generated zero points in six games against Buffalo. It looked good because they hustled, but the results weren't there. Their shots were from outside and bad angles - they just threw things on net. Because they are all smallish players, they weren't able to get rebounds, fight and win battles, and muck it up. It was that series that made me think this line, and particularly the wingers, should not be together.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 09:07 PM
  #115
VenomZeus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 184
vCash: 500
Didn't Shanahan take 13 shots for you guys last game?

VenomZeus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 09:09 PM
  #116
polako
Registered User
 
polako's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 1,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
the Cullen/Cally/Prucha line generated zero points in six games against Buffalo. It looked good because they hustled, but the results weren't there. Their shots were from outside and bad angles - they just threw things on net. Because they are all smallish players, they weren't able to get rebounds, fight and win battles, and muck it up. It was that series that made me think this line, and particularly the wingers, should not be together.
Fletch, I agree with you here. This line, though they looked great as they forechecked and buzzed all around the ice, didn't produce much in the Buffalo series. Then again, neither did the 2nd line.

The reason I have highlighted part of your post is to draw attention to the fact that throwing pucks on net and hitting will win over a healthy chunk of NYR, regardless of results...as you pointed out with your post. While this may be ok for bottom six forwards, there has to be a better balance on the top two lines.

polako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 09:19 PM
  #117
Carlos Ranger
Zucc-a-Rella
 
Carlos Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,185
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by VenomZeus View Post
Didn't Shanahan take 13 shots for you guys last game?
he also leads the league in shots at the moment with 32.

Carlos Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 10:19 PM
  #118
TomLaidlaw
Registered User
 
TomLaidlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Transylvania
Country: Romania
Posts: 3,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
the Cullen/Cally/Prucha line generated zero points in six games against Buffalo. It looked good because they hustled, but the results weren't there. Their shots were from outside and bad angles - they just threw things on net. Because they are all smallish players, they weren't able to get rebounds, fight and win battles, and muck it up. It was that series that made me think this line, and particularly the wingers, should not be together.
I don't think you can judge it specifically by points, especially in that series. I remember feeling confident everytime that line was on the ice because they were constantly pinning Buffalo in their own zone. I just looked back on the +/- of all our forwards in that series. The 3rd line of (Cally/Cullen/Prucha) did a very nice job comparative to our other forwards. Looking this up reminded me just how awful Shannys line was in that series.

Hossa ( E )
Nylander ( +2 )
Jagr ( E )

Shanny ( -6 )
Straka ( -1 )
Avery ( -5 )


Prucha ( E )
Cullen ( -1 )
Callahan ( E )

Betts ( -4 )
Hollweg ( -1 )
Ortmeyer ( -1 )
Isbister ( -3 )
Dawes ( -2 )

TomLaidlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 10:26 PM
  #119
clmetsfan
Registered User
 
clmetsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 3,794
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by God Is Avery View Post
he also leads the league in shots at the moment with 32.
That's why I think people are jumping the gun on switching things up. In the Rangers' three losses the opposing goaltending has been outstanding (Gerber's first game probably being the least impressive).

It's not as if they haven't been creating scoring chances, they just haven't been able to finish. But those hard-luck chances tend to even out as the season progresses. And Shanny is going to start lighting the lamp with regularity if he keeps getting that many shots on goal. I just think a little patience is the best way to go right now.

clmetsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-16-2007, 11:13 PM
  #120
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
there's an open roster spot - would it have hurt much to call-up Dawes to at least sit in Hossa's spot, instead of Strudwick?
I agree with this.

The love affair with Hossa, for what he actually is, at some point has to end.

Personally I'd like to see Dawes up there playing on a line with Shanny and Drury, rather than his shuffling of combos.

Shanahan, like a lot of this offense, doesn't seem washed up to me. He seems out of whack. Personally I'd have liked to insert Dawes in.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2007, 04:52 AM
  #121
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
It was in response to the original comment regarding how the two lines differ in getting the puck into the zone. I understand that I've knocked you around in two consecutive GDT threads, but at the very least read what I'm saying - give yourself a shot.

Although I neglect to mention why I think Shanny and Gomez are a sound fit within the offensive zone, I do go on to address why I believe Drury and Jagr are a good fit together. However, since you're wondering...I'll tell you:

Gomez is very effective with his puck cycling; if you add Avery to the equation down-low you get a quick, strong tandem that is not easily knocked off the puck. They're both relentless and Avery draws enough attention that you can leave Shanahan as the high man looking to get open and set up for a shot (what he does best). This also has secondary benefits in the form of less wear and tear on the old man, himself. If he's not hustling and duking it out in the trenches, he's going to preserve himself a little better.

For me, it boils down to patience: nothing good happens overnight. We can't expect all of these guys to gel instantly, but the matchups I propose seem to suit each other well.

Cheers
Ah, I still feel alittle wozzy after that, like Dubinsky kind of... (While I was right in principle atleast, the C is always supposed to cover behind the D, if the D steps up, especially around the offensive blueline, in other words Drury over commited offensivly. We had just let in 2 goals in the span of less then 30 sec or something, we had no real controll over the puck, he ran around like a chicken without a head on that play. Then we can argue wheter the term "it was his fault" is a good fit or not... Malik failed to get it deep. Hossa didn't take away the boards really. Jagr could have covered for Drury. Lundqvist could have saved it. The only one completly left without any blame have to be Roz who took away the passing lane and got the Ott player to shoot from some range atleast.)

I think we dissagree on Avery though. He is very good down low, at winning back the puck. He creates allot of turnovers all over the ice. But I don't think he is all that strong with the puck down low. Its defenitly possible that you are right and that they would improve over what we saw earlier in the season, and become a decent line. But, on a line with Gomez I don't think you can have too much puckcontroll.

Another issue with Avery is that at stretches, for maybe 3 shifts in a row here and there, he gets into a controversy instead of helping out Gomez. He gets into the face of the goalie, D's are chasing him all over the ice and stuff like that. He is far from 100% focused on the game. And thats what really makes him valueble, but when he does that he is leaving Gomez without any pucksupport.

I think a perfect fit with Gomez would be a Dustin Penner. Now, Penner can protect the puck down low, while he needs someone to get it down low for him. If you got that, you can afford a sniper on the other wing like Shanny; and still have a great line.

Atleast in the long run, a Penner type is what we should be aiming for to play with Gomez. He needs someone who constantly can get the puck down low for him. In Anaheim he got that from their blue line while with Perry and Getlaf, or from Andy McDonald while he played with him. When he doesn't got that, like in Edm now, he won't create much. We ought to be able to find someone like him pretty cheap.

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2007, 09:15 AM
  #122
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
Laidlaw...

six games, zero points for is the bottom line. Prucha needs to score goals. If he's not doing that, he's not doing much. I understand the comparison - unfortunately all that tells me is they weren't the worst out there - but does that mean they're getting their job done? Just because others are not getting the job done doesn't mean we can say that their futile effort was good because they're less worse than the next guy. I just think the combination of those two isn't great and you need a bigger body to play along, I believe.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2007, 09:20 AM
  #123
RMcDonagh
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,267
vCash: 500
since I was away for the last 3 games..I'll ask this now..

I haven't heard anything bad about Hossa's play yet... infact I see he has 3 assists in 3 games... but now has some sort of injury? ...well anyway, realistically, how has he been playing? Would it be smart to send down a D-man and bring up Dawes..

I'm willing to see Dawes playing a bit...especially with Gomez...we need some spark....

RMcDonagh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2007, 09:33 AM
  #124
WheresBarnaby
Registered User
 
WheresBarnaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 2,607
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno Ranger View Post
since I was away for the last 3 games..I'll ask this now..

I haven't heard anything bad about Hossa's play yet... infact I see he has 3 assists in 3 games... but now has some sort of injury? ...well anyway, realistically, how has he been playing? Would it be smart to send down a D-man and bring up Dawes..

I'm willing to see Dawes playing a bit...especially with Gomez...we need some spark....
OT, but there really isn't anything bad to say,Hossa's been playing really well. (personally I'm in amongst the give Hossa more icetime crowd though) I haven't heard of any injuries.

WheresBarnaby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-17-2007, 09:42 AM
  #125
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
I think well...

is a better term. I get frustrated because there are times when the guy just disappears, which really can't be done on a top line. He's looked good at times and indifferent at times too, which is why I'd say well (I'm mostly in the anti-Hossa corner, but am not calling for him to not get ice time - I actually think the team would be better-served with Straka on a top line and Hossa on another line, mixing it up with a smaller guy or two).

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.