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Malik... Enough...

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Old
10-16-2007, 02:45 PM
  #276
vipernsx
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At this point, Malik, for me, is little more than Andy Sutton without the grit. And if he had grit and took a bunch of bad penalties, he'd still be worse than Kasparaitis was last year, at this time.

This guy is a lump of dung and should be moved while he still has value. Others will quote things like "who's better at his price" or "how can we win a stanley cup with a lack of veteran's on defence". To them I say this. Rank the defensemen on this team in two categories. 1st defensively and second offensively. See where he ranks in both of those lists. Average out the rankings between all of the defenders and see the ranking amongst all of them. If Girardi and Staal are flat out better then Malik come playoffs, then who cares if they're veterans or not.

I'd rather see Pock playing along side Rozsival. At least when Pock get's caught up ice he's trying to make something happen offensively and not just getting beat getting back to his own zone. Too many times i've seen Malik slugging back through the neutral zone as forwards blow past him and Rozsival comes across from the other side to make the play. I've always felt Rozsival was a bit overrated but watching him cover for Malik lately has made me rethink this and maybe he's much better then I originally thought.

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10-16-2007, 03:43 PM
  #277
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Rozsival - Staal
Tyutin - Girardi
Pock - Mara

Ignoring RD & LD.

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10-16-2007, 07:29 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by hawks35 View Post
Thomas pock, are you kiddng me?
Not really. He was better for most of the prior year than Malik was.

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10-16-2007, 09:11 PM
  #279
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Not really. He was better for most of the prior year than Malik was.
thomas pock, please stop. id rather listen to more jovo rumors than hear about pock being better than malik.


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10-17-2007, 12:14 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by hawks35 View Post
thomas pock, please stop. id rather listen to more jovo rumors than hear about pock being better than malik.

Pock didnt make a mistake a period like Malik has been doing this year. Yea..at this point i'd love to have Pock in instead of Malik and see how things go.

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10-17-2007, 07:49 AM
  #281
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Pock didnt make a mistake a period like Malik has been doing this year. Yea..at this point i'd love to have Pock in instead of Malik and see how things go.
Agreed. I don't know how anyone can dispute the steady play Pock gave us towards the middle and end of last season. He was solid in his own end and even did a good job on the PK when asked... I remember a specific instance where he was one of the PKers on a 5-on-3, and singlehandedly kept the puck pinned behind the net for a solid 45 seconds. The kid has talent, I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

Also, to this point, Malik has been terrible. Even if Pock's abilities were in doubt, what is the harm in giving him a game or two to prove himself again? I seriously doubt that he'd make more costly mistakes than Malik. And, well, if he does, then we can waive him or trade him and not have to worry about his status any longer. If he's such a terrible player as some make him out to be, then is he even worth keeping around for depth purposes?

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10-17-2007, 07:50 AM
  #282
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Wow, is that Renney? Won't try something new, huh?

It's only a long season when it comes to Malik's play. It's only 1 out of 82 when it comes to giving him some more time to find his game.

When it's someone else, namly Thomas Pock, 1 game is virtually throwing away the season. Giving something else a chance is stupid and pointless. I got it now.

Why carry 8 defenseman if you aren't willing to sit more than 1 of your starters (is Paul Mara even considered a starter at this point)? Renney could use his two scratches as a motivation for the starting 6... don't want to show up ready to play, you'll sit; don't want to prepare mentally, you'll sit; want to turn it over in your zone, you'll sit. That's not just for Malik, that's for all 8 guys. Renney's too nice. That works when you're winning, not when you are struggling. Yeah, Yeah, 5 games. I heard. We look horrible though. We looked horrible for a half season last year. It's not that we're getting outplayed. We are making horrendous choices in our zone and we're not doing the little things or the big things in the offensive zone. I'll be consistent and say he should call up Dawes and sit anyone if they don't get their act together too. This isn't panic mode, this is what just about every other NHL coach does all season. You struggle, you get benched. You keep it up, you get scratched. This isn't a summer camp, this is the NHL. Why are we being so nice?

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10-17-2007, 08:03 AM
  #283
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I'd rather see Pock make the STUPID ROOKIE MISTAKES that MALIK STILL MAKES AT 30 SOMETHING YEARS OLD. At least he's a young player/ rookie who is learning and has upside. Malik is never gonna learn, is old, has lost speed, has NO UPSIDE, and he is not a steady presence... Are you kidding me... He couldn't be further from steady!

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10-17-2007, 08:07 AM
  #284
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If the Rangers can dump some salary by moving Malik and/or Mara for picks, then maybe Danny Markov can become an option. The guy is a real warrior and immed. becomes the Rangers most physical d-man.

Anyone know what Markov is looking for in terms of $ and years???

Just looked up his stas... Danny Markov was a + 25 last year and is a +47 liftetime. I believe he is 31 yrs old.

I remember a few years ago that he got hit with a stick in the face, broke his jaw and lost a bunch of teeth and didn't miss a game...


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10-17-2007, 08:14 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by happy hour View Post
If the Rangers can dump some salary by moving Malik and/or Mara for picks, then maybe Danny Markov can become an option. The guy is a real warrior and immed. becomes the Rangers most physical d-man.

Anyone know what Markov is looking for in terms of $ and years???

Just looked up his stas... Danny Markov was a + 25 last year and is a +47 liftetime. I believe he is 30 yrs old.

I remember a few years ago that he got hit with a stick in the face, broke his jaw and lost a bunch of teeth and didn't miss a game...
2,500,000$ - 2,750,000$ a year. Dunno how many years..

but Markov is very prone to injury...but I guess having Malik play 82 games is worse than Markov playing 65 and someone else playing the other 17....

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10-17-2007, 08:22 AM
  #286
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Your correct..The last 3 years he played 78-58 and 66 games so yeah he 65 games is about his average.

I can see why this guy gets injured.. He dives in front of shots, and plays a real hard game in the corners and in front of the net.

65 games paired with Rosey could be a nice combo.

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10-17-2007, 08:23 AM
  #287
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Mugerya...

I understand and agree with your point fully, unfortunately though, Renney has a different perception of Malik than the fans. I agree with his handling of Malik (keeping him in) based on his perception. I (or we) may not agree with his perception, but that's another story. Malik needs to stay in and find his game. I don't know the magic number, but with the long layoff and a couple games coming up, it should be at least that many. In other words, if you think a player is superior and is having a slow start to the season, you probnably shouldn't pull the plug after five games and a layoff that's intended to bring the team together and find chemistry. Again, we can argue that Renney's perception of what Malik brings is off, but that's another debate.

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10-17-2007, 03:03 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Pock didnt make a mistake a period like Malik has been doing this year. Yea..at this point i'd love to have Pock in instead of Malik and see how things go.
Even if he did, at least you could chalk it up to him learning. What's Malik's excuse?...that games getting too fast for him?

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10-17-2007, 03:16 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Even if he did, at least you could chalk it up to him learning. What's Malik's excuse?...that games getting too fast for him?
He's too tall that he sees too many fans and gets distracted.

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10-17-2007, 10:36 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by happy hour View Post
If the Rangers can dump some salary by moving Malik and/or Mara for picks, then maybe Danny Markov can become an option. The guy is a real warrior and immed. becomes the Rangers most physical d-man.

Anyone know what Markov is looking for in terms of $ and years???

Just looked up his stas... Danny Markov was a + 25 last year and is a +47 liftetime. I believe he is 31 yrs old.

I remember a few years ago that he got hit with a stick in the face, broke his jaw and lost a bunch of teeth and didn't miss a game...
Now we are advertising for defensemen on other teams based upon their great plus/minus, a stat that Malik's detractors cite as being meaningless. Maybe +/- only is a valuable indicator for some players.

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10-18-2007, 12:52 AM
  #291
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Let me ask again what may seem as a stupid and simplistic question.
I watch the Rangers when I can, and I also follow the stat sheet.

I understand that Malik is basically the Farnsworth equvilant for the Rangers.
I know he makes some ill advised penalties, is not fast, mobile, and can have trouble with his positioning.

Nonetheless Malik has lead the team and been up near the led in the league for plus minus as a Ranger.
In his three years he has been a part of the Rangers top two defensive pairing which while not excellent and helped by the goalie, nonetheless has been a major part of the team becoming a contender led by a low goals against.

So let me ask, WHY is Malik so ridicouloued like Kyle Farnsworth?
Malik statistically has been very solid, and somebody who gets THAT much ice time on the top unit of one of the top defensive goals against teams, he has to be a solid player.
Can somebody explain?

You would think he was a -30 with 200 PIM on the 02 Rangers, not a plus 30 paired on the top defensive line for a team with a low goals against.

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10-18-2007, 02:36 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by doublewinder View Post

So let me ask, WHY is Malik so ridicouloued like Kyle Farnsworth?
Malik statistically has been very solid, and somebody who gets THAT much ice time on the top unit of one of the top defensive goals against teams, he has to be a solid player.
Can somebody explain?
Simply put... Glaring mistakes.

His giveaway to Lydman in the Sabres series was brutal and people always remember that pass when thinking about Malik in that series, disregarding he was really very good for the rest of the series... ANd very few people mention how the darlings on D, Tyutin and Girardi, were getting killed shift after shift in that series, having to play against capable 2nd and 3rd lines.

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10-18-2007, 03:29 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by doublewinder View Post
Let me ask again what may seem as a stupid and simplistic question.
I watch the Rangers when I can, and I also follow the stat sheet.

I understand that Malik is basically the Farnsworth equvilant for the Rangers.
I know he makes some ill advised penalties, is not fast, mobile, and can have trouble with his positioning.

Nonetheless Malik has lead the team and been up near the led in the league for plus minus as a Ranger.
In his three years he has been a part of the Rangers top two defensive pairing which while not excellent and helped by the goalie, nonetheless has been a major part of the team becoming a contender led by a low goals against.

So let me ask, WHY is Malik so ridicouloued like Kyle Farnsworth?
Malik statistically has been very solid, and somebody who gets THAT much ice time on the top unit of one of the top defensive goals against teams, he has to be a solid player.
Can somebody explain?

You would think he was a -30 with 200 PIM on the 02 Rangers, not a plus 30 paired on the top defensive line for a team with a low goals against.
Simply put, he was made out to be a Farnsworth before he basically played one game. Thats a fact, just go back on the board as a example and check.

Everyone hated Glen Sather, and they had a reason for it. See 7 years without the PO's.

Then Glen Sather goes out and sign a bunch of europeans, Martin Rucinsky, Martin Straka, Michael Nylander, Michael Rozsival and Marek Malik; for example.

Allot of fans baiscally thought -- "oh no we are gooing to suck tremendsouly, and we are gooing to suck and be extremely soft at the same time". Why didn't we go out and get some North Americans atleast so we didn't have to be humiliated by the Flyers and co?

Anyway, after the lockout, MSG had decided that these guys where supposed to just suck tremendously and MSG was determend to let them know from the get go. Marek Malik was one of the players booed from the preseason, I've heard some say that it only started later ect, but that just isn't true, I've got some of thoose games on my computer and against NYI in the preaseason Malik is booed for example.

As the season passed, there where allot of people looking for someone to boo, and Weeks and Malik became the biggest targets.

Maliks stats doesn't lie, he was tremendous in the PO's, like 3 goals against in 10 games, 1 goal against for 60 minutes of penalty killing, while getting top minutes against Kovalchuk& Hossa, and the best offense in the league in Buffalo. Its not a shocker that the goal in G5 was scored with Malik on the bench and Tyutin& Girardi on the ice, since Renney couldn't shift lines.

Then there are of course factors in Maliks game that makes him a easy target, combined with the fact that he is far from a perfect hockeyplayer. He will never be in a Norris race.

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10-18-2007, 04:16 AM
  #294
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i hope to god this is true. let him sit and contemplate his **** start!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...althy_scr.html

I think at the very least Pock deserves a chance.

However, i dont want him on that top pair against Kovalchuk and co.

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10-18-2007, 07:57 AM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Simply put, he was made out to be a Farnsworth before he basically played one game. Thats a fact, just go back on the board as a example and check.

Everyone hated Glen Sather, and they had a reason for it. See 7 years without the PO's.

Then Glen Sather goes out and sign a bunch of europeans, Martin Rucinsky, Martin Straka, Michael Nylander, Michael Rozsival and Marek Malik; for example.

Allot of fans baiscally thought -- "[oh no we are gooing to suck tremendsouly, and we are gooing to suck and be extremely soft at the same time". Why didn't we go out and get some North Americans atleast so we didn't have to be humiliated by the Flyers and co?

Anyway, after the lockout, MSG had decided that these guys where supposed to just suck tremendously and MSG was determend to let them know from the get go. Marek Malik was one of the players booed from the preseason, I've heard some say that it only started later ect, but that just isn't true, I've got some of thoose games on my computer and against NYI in the preaseason Malik is booed for example.

As the season passed, there where allot of people looking for someone to boo, and Weeks and Malik became the biggest targets.

Maliks stats doesn't lie, he was tremendous in the PO's, like 3 goals against in 10 games, 1 goal against for 60 minutes of penalty killing, while getting top minutes against Kovalchuk& Hossa, and the best offense in the league in Buffalo. Its not a shocker that the goal in G5 was scored with Malik on the bench and Tyutin& Girardi on the ice, since Renney couldn't shift lines.

Then there are of course factors in Maliks game that makes him a easy target, combined with the fact that he is far from a perfect hockeyplayer. He will never be in a Norris race.
That's what it is for me Ola. I couldn't care less what his reputation was coming in, or that he was a signing by Sather in the painful days of years past. I'm also not looking to make him a scapegoat... Pinning the blame on one single player in a team sport is laughably absurd.

I dislike him because, IMO, he makes too many mistakes out there on the ice. I understand the statistics support the argument that he's an excellent player and an integral part of our team, and I can't fully explain that away. However, watching him on a nightly basis I see some consistent weaknesses in his game and a myriad of inopportune mistakes. Again, I know the statistics contradict my feelings toward the player, but my eyes aren't lying to me. When he repeatedly tries to poke check the puck only to have a guy fly by him, or when he is caught out of position and far too slow to get back, then I get extremely aggravated.

Statistics be damned, Malik is a below average defenseman in my eyes which is why I dislike him. And that's the end of it.

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10-18-2007, 08:55 AM
  #296
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nyr...

getting off Malik for a second, one single player often is the difference between getting to the next round, or winning the Cup. Let's now take Malik as an example (and we'll use hypotheticals because I don't feel like debating him today). Let's say there was a better person to be paired with Rozsival to play out there with a unit of 5 that contained Jagr. What people feel, I believe, is that another person, in Malik's role, would've made this team better last season. A team that's a little better last season, at least advances to the semis. That is the difference one person can make. What's debateable is whether or not this person exists on the Rangers, or is affordable to the Rangers, or if that person that can make this team better and he's available. As a drastic example, Niedermayer in for Malik probably gets this team past Buffalo - he's better defensively, is a better passer, and improves a PP that should be deadly. And that's just one person, but that one person is laid on top of an existing platform and can be incrementally positive.

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10-18-2007, 09:11 AM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
getting off Malik for a second, one single player often is the difference between getting to the next round, or winning the Cup. Let's now take Malik as an example (and we'll use hypotheticals because I don't feel like debating him today). Let's say there was a better person to be paired with Rozsival to play out there with a unit of 5 that contained Jagr. What people feel, I believe, is that another person, in Malik's role, would've made this team better last season. A team that's a little better last season, at least advances to the semis. That is the difference one person can make. What's debateable is whether or not this person exists on the Rangers, or is affordable to the Rangers, or if that person that can make this team better and he's available. As a drastic example, Niedermayer in for Malik probably gets this team past Buffalo - he's better defensively, is a better passer, and improves a PP that should be deadly. And that's just one person, but that one person is laid on top of an existing platform and can be incrementally positive.
You're right Fletch. I was just trying to avoid having someone tell me that I'm "scapegoating" Malik. Absolutely true that one player can make all the difference. I just didn't want to sound as if I was implying that all of the Rangers misfortune in the playoffs and early this season can be attributed to Malik.

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10-19-2007, 10:32 AM
  #298
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I'm not in any way shocked about last night. After 5 games with Malik in the line-up we had conceded 10. After 1 game without him we concede 5.
As usual, Malik's numbers speak for themselves, why Rangers fans so often choose to ignore them i don't know. What worries me far more though is that Renney decided to listen to the fans and put Pock in for Malik. I know few people agree but for me Malik is our best defenseman, taking him out leads to losses and lots and lots of goals against. He'd better be back for the next match. As for Pock, i think he's a real liability.

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10-19-2007, 10:35 AM
  #299
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The worst part about this whole thing is that Pock's trade value just plummeted. Any chance Slats had of sending him somewhere for a 7th rounder just went down the toilet.

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