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So many 1st round picks producing now

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Old
10-19-2007, 01:36 AM
  #1
Flyguy_1ca
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So many 1st round picks producing now

8 of the top 9 forwards were in the 1st round:

Scott Hartnell 6th Overall
Scottie Upshall 6th Overall
Joffrey Lupul 7th Overall
Jeff Carter 11th Overall
RJ Umberger 16th Overall
Simon Gagne 22nd Overall
Mike Richards 24th Overall
Daniel Briere 24th Overall

3 of our top 4 D-men were in the 1st round:

Derian Hatcher 8th Overall
Braydon Coburn 8th Overall
Jason Smith 18th Overall

and of course the starting goalie:

Martin Biron 16th Overall

That means of the top 14 players on the roster (top 9 forwards, 4 d-men and starting goalie), only Knuble and Timonen were not 1st round draft picks.

Have the Flyers ever put such a skilled lineup on the ice? It's nice to see such a talented roster growing together to produce results.


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Old
10-19-2007, 02:50 AM
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Jester
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things i don't pay attention to at the NHL level: where a player was drafted.

if you need evidence, look no further than Detroit.

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10-19-2007, 05:45 AM
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decadentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
things i don't pay attention to at the NHL level: where a player was drafted.

if you need evidence, look no further than Detroit.
If anything that makes where a player was drafted all the more significant, because thats the exception not the norm...Thus the reason people praise them for drafting.

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10-19-2007, 08:18 AM
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Larry44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyguy_1ca View Post
8 of the top 9 forwards were in the 1st round:

Scott Hartnell 6th Overall
Scottie Upshall 6th Overall
Joffrey Lupul 7th Overall
Jeff Carter 11th Overall
RJ Umberger 16th Overall
Simon Gagne 22nd Overall
Mike Richards 24th Overall
Daniel Briere 24th Overall

3 of our top 4 D-men were in the 1st round:

Derian Hatcher 8th Overall
Braydon Coburn 8th Overall
Jason Smith 18th Overall

and of course the starting goalie:

Martin Biron 16th Overall

That means of the top 14 players on the roster (top 9 forwards, 4 d-men and starting goalie), only Knuble and Timonen were not 1st round draft picks.

Have the Flyers ever put such a skilled lineup on the ice? It's nice to see such a talented roster growing together to produce results.
Add Eager, then Downie, then Parent, then Giroux and JVR. Soon almost the whole team will be first round picks.

As was pointed out, draft order is no guarantee and lots of great players are picked later, but keeping your own and acquiring other teams first picks is good asset management.

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10-19-2007, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyguy_1ca View Post
Scottie Upshall 6th Overall
Joffrey Lupul 7th Overall
Jeff Carter 11th Overall
RJ Umberger 16th Overall
Mike Richards 24th Overall
Braydon Coburn 8th Overall
That's the octane right there. If they play well (given the ups and downs EVERY players goes through in a year) for the whole grind, the Flyers are going to be a handful this year.

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Old
10-19-2007, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
things i don't pay attention to at the NHL level: where a player was drafted.

if you need evidence, look no further than Detroit.
+1

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10-19-2007, 11:37 AM
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brett hull

4th round was it?

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Old
10-19-2007, 12:15 PM
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Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
If anything that makes where a player was drafted all the more significant, because thats the exception not the norm...Thus the reason people praise them for drafting.
it's not really the exception... you find those players everywhere, you just don't necessarily realize it. Flyers have done very good in getting players that produce from later rounds of the draft in recent years. Wings just have a few exemplary examples.

i also always remember the brilliant NFL Draft ad on ESPN where they showed the #4 corner (Sean Springs, i believe) getting toasted by some receiver picked #175 or something. it doesn't matter... the moment you're drafted you're in the league, it's about producing from that point forward... what happened on draft day, and before draft day no longer has any merit.

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10-19-2007, 12:33 PM
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I think this is only worth looking at if you narrow it down to the number of recent Flyers draft picks who are now actually playing for the Flyers or another team in the NHL. This is simply evidence that the Flyers have drafted well and or are good at developing their own players. When you start looking at the number of former 1st round picks on your team and using that as evidence that the team is skilled, you are mistaking correlation for cause. Paul Holmgren has done a good job this year of bringing in skilled players through trades and free agency. The fact that these players are former 1st round picks is really irrelavant. All that proves is that skilled players, in general, are often drafted in the 1st round. Paul Holmgren went out and obtained these players because of the players that they have become or have shown the potential to be, not because they were 1st round picks. I know it probably seems like we're nitpicking at your post and you really only meant to point out the number of skilled players on the Flyers roster. Its worth mentioning, though, because if you simply say that the Flyers have improved because they have so many former 1st round picks, you aren't giving Holmgren enough credit for the job he has done in targeting players who can help this team.

Currently playing-
Simon Gagne
Justin Williams (Carolina)
Joni Pitkanen (Edmonton)
Jeff Carter
Mike Richards


Jury's still out (but promising)-
Steve Downie
Claude Giroux
James VanRiemsdyk
Andreas Nodl
Ryan Potulny
Stefan Ruziska

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Old
10-19-2007, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numba29 View Post
brett hull

4th round was it?
how about zetterburg and datsuk avg lie 6th rounder

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10-19-2007, 02:12 PM
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phlacheesesteak
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Quote:
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how about zetterburg and datsuk avg lie 6th rounder
fedorov was in the 5th, i think

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10-19-2007, 02:39 PM
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datsyuk was picked in 7th round

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10-19-2007, 02:59 PM
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decadentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
the moment you're drafted you're in the league, it's about producing from that point forward... what happened on draft day, and before draft day no longer has any merit.
Thats oversimplifying it and ignoring the obvious at the same time. If your theory were correct there would be absolutely no need for scouts nor the trading of draft picks.

Your argument holds about as much weight as the American dream. Everyone has an opportunity. It leaves out one thing, skill and/or ability. Things that have been accessed by scouts and organizations to the utmost of their ability. If this were all true, organizations wouldn't spend so much money on projection.

Statistically players that are drafted in the first round produce more than ones that are drafted in later rounds. So just because its easy to name some people off of your head that turned out well in later rounds, doesn't make it the norm.

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10-19-2007, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlacheesesteak View Post
fedorov was in the 5th, i think
Because he played in Soviet Union.

Quote:
datsyuk was picked in 7th round
That's Zetterberg. Datsyuk was picked in 6 round I believe.

And btw 1st round is overrated, it doesn't matter if team consists from 1st rounders or not.

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10-19-2007, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garl View Post
Because he played in Soviet Union.


That's Zetterberg. Datsyuk was picked in 6 round I believe.

And btw 1st round is overrated, it doesn't matter if team consists from 1st rounders or not.
Wasn't Hasek like a 5th rounder?

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10-19-2007, 03:35 PM
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Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Thats oversimplifying it and ignoring the obvious at the same time. If your theory were correct there would be absolutely no need for scouts nor the trading of draft picks.

Your argument holds about as much weight as the American dream. Everyone has an opportunity. It leaves out one thing, skill and/or ability. Things that have been accessed by scouts and organizations to the utmost of their ability. If this were all true, organizations wouldn't spend so much money on projection.

Statistically players that are drafted in the first round produce more than ones that are drafted in later rounds. So just because its easy to name some people off of your head that turned out well in later rounds, doesn't make it the norm.
i'm not denying any of that. i'm not denying that statistically a first rounder should produce more than a 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder, etc.

however, my theory holds water because of one simple fact: if a team of undrafted players won the Stanley Cup they'd still be the best team in the league. thus, where you were drafted is irrelevant to any of the things you just mentioned.

the grading scale in the professional ranks is simple: produce, or don't produce... no one cares if you were no. 1 or no. 156 in the draft at that point, nor should fans. i want the best possible Flyer team, not the one with the most guys that were thought highly of when they were 18. thus, who the F cares where they were drafted?

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10-19-2007, 03:39 PM
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Kim Johnsson was drafted last overall in his draft year.

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10-19-2007, 03:46 PM
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phlacheesesteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garl View Post
Because he played in Soviet Union.

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Old
10-19-2007, 06:59 PM
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zettsyukwall415
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Originally Posted by ChokeOnOil View Post
Wasn't Hasek like a 5th rounder?
He was actually drafted in the 10th round, 199 overall.

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Old
10-19-2007, 08:10 PM
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Garl
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Fedorov was drafted so low because there wasn't guarantee that he will ever play in NHL. Based on talent and results he was a 1st rounder for sure.

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10-19-2007, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Statistically players that are drafted in the first round produce more than ones that are drafted in later rounds. So just because its easy to name some people off of your head that turned out well in later rounds, doesn't make it the norm.
Not necessarily. Statistically speaking, players that are drafted in the first round are more likely to become NHL regulars than those who are second later on. The players who are most likely to produce are the ones selected in the top five.

I'll try to look back at the last twenty years tonight.

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Old
10-19-2007, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garl View Post
Fedorov was drafted so low because there wasn't guarantee that he will ever play in NHL. Based on talent and results he was a 1st rounder for sure.
yup yup yup. He would have been a first round, no questions, but no one was entirely sure on his future. This was extremely common back then see Larionov, and hell even Pavel Bure and Alexander Mogilny who were taken late since no one was sure if they could leave the Soviets. And even Alexander Mogilny took his number (89) for the year he defected from the Soviets... that should tell you that it was special to defect out.

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Old
10-20-2007, 10:10 AM
  #23
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maybe the best thing about having all of the first rounders is they make really good trade bait...they are young so GMs and scouts still remember how they wanted to draft them...good tools to get the veteran player you need to get from contender to cup winner...it's very unlikely to be able to resign them all especially if they keep playing the way the are...

we don't have an owen nolan but look at how the avs were able to afford giving up nolan to get one final piece to get them a cup (ozolinch)

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Old
10-21-2007, 02:03 AM
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I see where you were going when you started this thread u put alot of work into it Flyguy 1ca good job man

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