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Get Rid of Hollweg!

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Old
10-23-2007, 11:29 AM
  #101
Fletch
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Big Apple...

I think it's safe to say that Lundqvist was a lot better in the second half and that had a lot to do with the PK's success. When JOrts was not on the ice (but in the lineup) you saw a dinstict uptick in Lundqvist's play that cannot be attributed to JOrts' presence.

Also, I'm not sure what the PK stats were pre-JOrts and post-JOrts, so that would be a tough comparison. What Chosen is saying is that compared to last season as a whole, which is the numbers we currently have, the PK hasn't missed a beat to start this season. Statistically speaking, that is a true statement. If it's still apples and oranges to you, then consider the last two months of last season - the Rangers' OK had a 86.3% success rate (month of March and April). So now you have how the Rangers finished the regular season, and how they started this season. If you want to go 7 games vs. 7 games, the Rangers were at 78.4% in their last 7 games, which is a bit worse than last season. JOrt's a good PKer, but he was replaceable.

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Old
10-23-2007, 02:06 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
All the Orts haters are now surfacing, hmm
I don't hate him and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single person who hates him.

He's not a liability on the ice but he's a very small positive that is very easy to replace.

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10-23-2007, 02:47 PM
  #103
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Orts sucked and i said so from day one. So hmm yourself.

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Old
10-23-2007, 02:55 PM
  #104
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Orts sucked and i said so from day one. So hmm yourself.
sucked at scoring, yea maybe, expect for that sweet SO against the B's but a roster isn't full of 50 goal scorers pal, you ever heard of role players, grinders, energy guys, we've already had the superstar look, it don't work.

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Old
10-23-2007, 03:16 PM
  #105
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I think the reason Ortmeyer sucks in Dagoon's mind is because he was playing 4th line right wing where his boy Colton is right now. The problem is Colton doesn't score either--doesn't do anything except fight--fairly well. Ortmeyer was a hell of a defensive forward and penalty killer--an inspirational one at times. Better on connecting at bodychecks also--well--because he could skate--and at least a little more likely than Orr to put a puck in the net once in a while.

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10-23-2007, 03:26 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I think the reason Ortmeyer sucks in Dagoon's mind is because he was playing 4th line right wing where his boy Colton is right now. The problem is Colton doesn't score either--doesn't do anything except fight--fairly well. Ortmeyer was a hell of a defensive forward and penalty killer--an inspirational one at times. Better on connecting at bodychecks also--well--because he could skate--and at least a little more likely than Orr to put a puck in the net once in a while.
agreed.

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Old
10-23-2007, 03:29 PM
  #107
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eco's...

everybody has a different opinion on what a team should look like. There are those who think an Orr (Colton that is) is needed. Someone whose sole purpose is to fight and he really can't do much of anything else. In some people's minds, including, apparently, Rangers' brass minds, this is more important than a guy who can score a bit more and who can play on the PK while giving a shift here and there whereby the puck is at the opposing end of the ice for a minute. I'm not debating the issue either way, but I think good arguments can be made from both sides.

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10-23-2007, 04:48 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
everybody has a different opinion on what a team should look like. There are those who think an Orr (Colton that is) is needed. Someone whose sole purpose is to fight and he really can't do much of anything else. In some people's minds, including, apparently, Rangers' brass minds, this is more important than a guy who can score a bit more and who can play on the PK while giving a shift here and there whereby the puck is at the opposing end of the ice for a minute. I'm not debating the issue either way, but I think good arguments can be made from both sides.

Well FWIW Fletch what we have now is one effective player on our 4th line and that is Betts. The line as a whole is as disfunctional as the rest of the lines on the team with one particular difference--there is a good to very good chance that sooner or later the top three lines will get their act together--the 4th as currently constructed will continue to be disfunctional as long as both Orr and Hollweg are on it because they are Both too limited in what they bring. IMO we can afford to keep one but the other should be upgraded before the year is out. Now it may be that we need to keep Orr around and play him in most games but saying or thinking he is an every day player is wrong headed IMHO. As for who is a better hockey player--Ortmeyer or Orr--it is not even a contest. It's a joke to even think Orr is as good a player as Ortmeyer.

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10-23-2007, 05:26 PM
  #109
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eco's...

I don't disagree - I was just stating where people are coming from (after spending 10 minutes on the meaning of FWIW - got it, btw).

But again, should the fourth line have an enforcer, or should it have a more useful guy, like a PKer. That's one question that needs to be answered as it's a concept and once that's answered, then you can talk about people (we aren't talking about Hollweg as much anymore, are we, or am I confused?). Conversely, do you keep an enforcer and do you get rid of the guy who throws his body around, can fight as a middleweight (and lose) but cannot score or do you have that PKer on the other side too - a guy who isn't going to score much, but perhaps he fills in for Prucha in the last 5 minutes of one-goal games, and he play 3-4 minutes on the PK, thus resting Drury a bit and Shanny entirely (that's a Renney call - he's had opportunities to rest Shanny and never took him, citing his prowess on the PK).

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10-23-2007, 06:07 PM
  #110
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Orts had no hands couldn't pass and never ever fought, He did skate well but he couldn't stop watch a gamewith him and he is off sides at least 4 times a game. Fighting has nothing to do with it he was a hustle guy but nothing else. Don't drag Orr into it he handles his role unlike some on this time

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10-23-2007, 07:34 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I think the reason Ortmeyer sucks in Dagoon's mind is because he was playing 4th line right wing where his boy Colton is right now. The problem is Colton doesn't score either--doesn't do anything except fight--fairly well. Ortmeyer was a hell of a defensive forward and penalty killer--an inspirational one at times. Better on connecting at bodychecks also--well--because he could skate--and at least a little more likely than Orr to put a puck in the net once in a while.
Dagoon never saw a player he liked who doesn't fight. He must hate international hockey.

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Old
10-23-2007, 08:16 PM
  #112
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I was listening to XM on the way home and they had tonights game on . One of the Pens announcers said that Hollweg was a younger version of Recci. I almost hit a light post!

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10-23-2007, 08:27 PM
  #113
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Oh man! Hollweg was so good tonight! He was hitting everything and really creating sustained energy and forecheck.



...wait a second he didn't at all and was a complete waste of 7 minutes along with Orr.

Get rid of this useless bum.

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Old
10-23-2007, 08:34 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Bretzky-StaalFor07 View Post
Oh man! Hollweg was so good tonight! He was hitting everything and really creating sustained energy and forecheck.



...wait a second he didn't at all and was a complete waste of 7 minutes along with Orr.

Get rid of this useless bum.
dude I don't know what you're smoking, Hollweg played a really well game, he had like 5 or 6 hits hit well and yes the 4th did sustain some pressure.

What the hell do you want from this line? WHAT???????

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10-23-2007, 08:35 PM
  #115
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Orr sucked and didn't do anything, but Hollweg and Betts were good

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Old
10-23-2007, 09:30 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I think it's safe to say that Lundqvist was a lot better in the second half and that had a lot to do with the PK's success. When JOrts was not on the ice (but in the lineup) you saw a dinstict uptick in Lundqvist's play that cannot be attributed to JOrts' presence.

Also, I'm not sure what the PK stats were pre-JOrts and post-JOrts, so that would be a tough comparison. What Chosen is saying is that compared to last season as a whole, which is the numbers we currently have, the PK hasn't missed a beat to start this season. Statistically speaking, that is a true statement. If it's still apples and oranges to you, then consider the last two months of last season - the Rangers' OK had a 86.3% success rate (month of March and April). So now you have how the Rangers finished the regular season, and how they started this season. If you want to go 7 games vs. 7 games, the Rangers were at 78.4% in their last 7 games, which is a bit worse than last season. JOrt's a good PKer, but he was replaceable.
I'm not disputing that he is not replaceable, by all means he is replaceable, especially with the deep farm system we have. I was trying to make the point that he wasn't useless last year, and served a point on being on our roster.....

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10-24-2007, 01:33 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Dagoon never saw a player he liked who doesn't fight. He must hate international hockey.

It's a matter of perception. I don't mind fighting but my main interest each and every game is getting the two points. Penalty killing and good defensive play are more useful in the long run than one player hitting another in the nose.

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10-24-2007, 01:41 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I don't disagree - I was just stating where people are coming from (after spending 10 minutes on the meaning of FWIW - got it, btw).

But again, should the fourth line have an enforcer, or should it have a more useful guy, like a PKer. That's one question that needs to be answered as it's a concept and once that's answered, then you can talk about people (we aren't talking about Hollweg as much anymore, are we, or am I confused?). Conversely, do you keep an enforcer and do you get rid of the guy who throws his body around, can fight as a middleweight (and lose) but cannot score or do you have that PKer on the other side too - a guy who isn't going to score much, but perhaps he fills in for Prucha in the last 5 minutes of one-goal games, and he play 3-4 minutes on the PK, thus resting Drury a bit and Shanny entirely (that's a Renney call - he's had opportunities to rest Shanny and never took him, citing his prowess on the PK).

Sorry about the FWIW--sometimes things of that nature leave me scratching my head too.

You can upgrade a team from the top down or from the bottom up. The cap though these days makes that a little more interesting. As currently composed we have two penalty killers on our third and fourth lines--Callahan and Betts. Hossa could also be counted I suppose but this is work than the Shanny's and Straka's can do but shouldn't be the main guys all the time. I was a bit miffed by Straka's injury the other day--first the penalty was too long for what was an accidental highstick without any serious injury--even so if Hollweg cannot or is not trusted to kill penalties now in his third season we should think about replacing him. Orr though right now isn't doing much except taking up space and providing an illusion that is someone will pay for running our guys. His skating will always make him replaceable by someone who can fight and skate better.

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