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GDT: Preds @ Kings - 10.23.07

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Old
10-24-2007, 02:59 PM
  #76
jstreet
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it seems that Vokoun took our goaltending to FLA, Kimmo took our transition game to Philly, and Kariya took our finesse to St Louis. We are left with 3 lines of Fiddler without the Fiddler hustle.


Eklund has us talking to the Rangers about one of our young offensive minded D, he says we are interested in Prucha, Straka, and Montoya.


...somethings gotta give.

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10-24-2007, 04:21 PM
  #77
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Straka is interesting, not so sure about Prucha, and no interst in Al.

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10-24-2007, 04:24 PM
  #78
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I'm just nitpicking, but I wouldn't throw Radulov in that category. With half a season and some playoff experience, I'd still consider him a "rook."

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Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post

We've lost significant talent from last year, but we've also got more seasoned returning youth like Radulov.

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10-24-2007, 04:25 PM
  #79
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I've said it for awhile now, Zidlicky is a luxury we cannot afford if we are too poor to even ditch the coaching staff, much less put Sullivan on the IR.

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10-24-2007, 05:22 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basher View Post
I'm just nitpicking, but I wouldn't throw Radulov in that category. With half a season and some playoff experience, I'd still consider him a "rook."
That's why I said 'more seasoned.' He's not mostly seasoned like mexican food or perfectly seasoned like thai food. He's just more seasoned this year than he was last year. Basically just saying he's older and more mature than in the previous season.

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10-24-2007, 05:32 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnlikestars View Post
Eklund has us talking to the Rangers about one of our young offensive minded D, he says we are interested in Prucha, Straka, and Montoya.


...somethings gotta give.
Straka is out 5 to 6 weeks with a broken hand

Montoya we would have to give up quite a bit more than just a Suter or a Zids

and Prucha is like a Hartnell, minus the size.


No thanks to all 3

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10-24-2007, 06:53 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
and Prucha is like a Hartnell, minus the size.
Except for the fact that they play a completely different game.

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10-24-2007, 09:18 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Except for the fact that they play a completely different game.
yeah, both get garbage goals and are defensively responsible and can not generate any offense with their stick handling or passing. Man, they are completely different....

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10-24-2007, 10:21 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
yeah, both get garbage goals and are defensively responsible and can not generate any offense with their stick handling or passing. Man, they are completely different....
Prucha is a sniper, Hartnell is a banger....I agree with Stranger on this one.

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10-25-2007, 08:55 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
yeah, both get garbage goals and are defensively responsible and can not generate any offense with their stick handling or passing. Man, they are completely different....
Prucha has good stick handling and uses that to not only score goals but to make plays. He is more of a sniper. He's not that good of a defensive player.

Hartnell is better defensively, but thats not saying much. He's a player who takes a beating in front of the net and grabs trash goals.

They are different players.

Anyway, I seriously doubt the Rangers would be willing to give him up, unless we're trading Suter...

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10-25-2007, 10:01 AM
  #86
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Prucha is a good and effective player, definite upgrade in potential over Hartnell. And so I think we would have to give up a lot for the Rangers to consider shipping him south.

We need something to shake up this team. Whatever deal we could make would need to be salary-neutral right now with our ownership limbo.

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10-25-2007, 11:35 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Prucha has good stick handling and uses that to not only score goals but to make plays. He is more of a sniper. He's not that good of a defensive player.
Have you watched the guy play? I mean 35 assists in 155 games pretty much speak for themselves. If he "makes plays" it seems as he wouldnt have such 4th line stats. Yes, he is a "sniper", not that great of one, but if you had to label him, i guess thats about all that you can label him with. And not that good of a defensive player? Man, i guess all those games that ive seen him on the checking line must have been a dream. A -3 career over 155 games is pretty good representative of that.

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10-25-2007, 01:13 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
Have you watched the guy play? I mean 35 assists in 155 games pretty much speak for themselves. If he "makes plays" it seems as he wouldnt have such 4th line stats. Yes, he is a "sniper", not that great of one, but if you had to label him, i guess thats about all that you can label him with. And not that good of a defensive player? Man, i guess all those games that ive seen him on the checking line must have been a dream. A -3 career over 155 games is pretty good representative of that.
So now you are equating playmaking with getting on the scoresheet.

You are also equating defensive play based on plus/minus. Paul Kariya is a +48 lifetime player. Does that make him a good defensive player or defensively responsible?

It seems to me that you are the one who hasn't watched him play, but rather simply looked at NHL.com stats.

They are not similar players and have a different approach.

Anyway, since you wouldn't take Prucha and claim that he's a defensive responsible player in the mold of Hartnell (without the size of course), which player would you rather have instead? Fiddler? Tootoo?

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10-25-2007, 02:48 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
So now you are equating playmaking with getting on the scoresheet.

You are also equating defensive play based on plus/minus. Paul Kariya is a +48 lifetime player. Does that make him a good defensive player or defensively responsible?

It seems to me that you are the one who hasn't watched him play, but rather simply looked at NHL.com stats.

They are not similar players and have a different approach.

Anyway, since you wouldn't take Prucha and claim that he's a defensive responsible player in the mold of Hartnell (without the size of course), which player would you rather have instead? Fiddler? Tootoo?
the only way i related him to Hartnell is that he gets garbage goals around the net... period. Everything else you assumed. And, yes, ive watched the guy play a lot. Point being, i used FACTS to back up my statements instead of using them as an opinion.

And what i was saying is, i would NOT take Prucha if means we get rid of Zids or Suter for him (which is basically what Eck was saying as them getting one of our offensive d-men). Not even if Zids and Suter were hurt would i take a healthy Prucha.

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10-25-2007, 02:54 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
the only way i related him to Hartnell is that he gets garbage goals around the net... period. Everything else you assumed. And, yes, ive watched the guy play a lot. Point being, i used FACTS to back up my statements instead of using them as an opinion.
No, you originally said
Quote:
and Prucha is like a Hartnell, minus the size.
I pointed out that they play a different game, you then responded with this one:

Quote:
yeah, both get garbage goals and are defensively responsible and can not generate any offense with their stick handling or passing. Man, they are completely different....
No assumptions on my end.

Using stats to showcase a player's ability in an area hardly qualifies as "facts". You can point out -3, but you cannot say that that is an indicator of his defensive ability and claim that as a fact.

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10-25-2007, 04:12 PM
  #91
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Not to get into the middle of this, but stranger is correct that stats are no indicator on how defensively responsible a player is. There are so many other things that play into it all such as who they play on a line with, what team they're on, what situations they play in, etc. +/- is really a pretty useless stat.

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10-25-2007, 04:26 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crossxcheck View Post
Not to get into the middle of this, but stranger is correct that stats are no indicator on how defensively responsible a player is. There are so many other things that play into it all such as who they play on a line with, what team they're on, what situations they play in, etc. +/- is really a pretty useless stat.
yet he played on the Rangers checking line....

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10-25-2007, 05:09 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
yet he played on the Rangers checking line....
Prucha has been used on different lines, he hasn't remained on a checking line his whole career.

Regardless, that doesn't make him a strong defensive player. Radulov has played on a checking line, whilst Tootoo has played on an offensive line before. That doesn't mean Tootoo is a strong offensive player.

Again, this hardly equals him with Hartnell.

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10-25-2007, 08:43 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Prucha has been used on different lines, he hasn't remained on a checking line his whole career.

Regardless, that doesn't make him a strong defensive player. Radulov has played on a checking line, whilst Tootoo has played on an offensive line before. That doesn't mean Tootoo is a strong offensive player.

Again, this hardly equals him with Hartnell.
Hartnell could not cycle the puck because it always rolled off of his stick. Same with Prucha.... Prucha hangs around the slot area (net) looking for rebounds to put in, same with Hartnell.... Prucha does not bang like Hartnell, isnt as physical, is a bit faster, but basically everything else sticks.

I think the 11 minutes of ice time he got in tonights game, the12 minute average per game, and the 2 minutes of ice time he gets on the PP (most of which he stays around the net) pretty much exemplifies that.

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10-26-2007, 12:04 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
Hartnell could not cycle the puck because it always rolled off of his stick. Same with Prucha.... Prucha hangs around the slot area (net) looking for rebounds to put in, same with Hartnell.... Prucha does not bang like Hartnell, isnt as physical, is a bit faster, but basically everything else sticks.
Prucha actually plays well with the puck, it doesn't "always roll off of his stick".

Prucha does more then hang around the slot.

Correct, he isn't as physical as Hartnell. Earlier you suggested that they were the same player except for size.

Anyway, I guess apparently we are watching a different Peter Prucha. You're welcome to think he's the same player as Hartnell, thats your opinion.

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10-26-2007, 02:08 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Prucha actually plays well with the puck, it doesn't "always roll off of his stick".

Prucha does more then hang around the slot.

Correct, he isn't as physical as Hartnell. Earlier you suggested that they were the same player except for size.

Anyway, I guess apparently we are watching a different Peter Prucha. You're welcome to think he's the same player as Hartnell, thats your opinion.
i DONT, thats the point. I said he is SIMILAR to Hartnell which means he has similarities. But im sure you knew what that meant and ya didnt have to pull out the dictionary.

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10-26-2007, 07:56 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
i DONT, thats the point. I said he is SIMILAR to Hartnell which means he has similarities. But im sure you knew what that meant and ya didnt have to pull out the dictionary.
Right then.

Marek Zidlicky is like Scott Stevens (except for size). They both uses sticks and have skates. They also, get this, are (well were for Stevens case) defensemen.

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10-26-2007, 02:37 PM
  #98
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10-26-2007, 04:20 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Right then.

Marek Zidlicky is like Scott Stevens (except for size). They both uses sticks and have skates. They also, get this, are (well were for Stevens case) defensemen.
yes, that is what i said....

you like to mock people because you havent figured out a way to use facts in your arguments right?

Funny thing is, its comical that most people that read this from the NYR side of things are laughing in your direction.


My point was, Prucha would just add goals in and around the slot area like Hartnell did, BUT he does not bring the intangibles that Harts brought. So basically, we would be replacing Hartnell with someone less of size and physicality, but maybe more of a sniper. But i guess that whole part is just too hard for you to understand.

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10-26-2007, 04:35 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
you like to mock people because you havent figured out a way to use facts in your arguments right?
Facts? We're talking about how a player plays, which is all opinions. I used just as many facts as you did.

Quote:
Funny thing is, its comical that most people that read this from the NYR side of things are laughing in your direction.
Source?

Quote:
My point was, Prucha would just add goals in and around the slot area like Hartnell did, BUT he does not bring the intangibles that Harts brought. So basically, we would be replacing Hartnell with someone less of size and physicality, but maybe more of a sniper. But i guess that whole part is just too hard for you to understand.
You never specified this with your first post. All you posted was, he's like Hartnell, minus the size. You did not initially mention intangibles, the differences in physicality, scoring ability, etc. You are now finally bringing them up. Leading me to my original point; They are different players and are not simply the same player minus size.

In essence, I sort of agree. I'd love to have a player like Prucha on our team, however, the parts required to give him up might not benefit the team right now. He's a young goalscorer who has more goal scoring ability then most of our team. With the system we play, he wouldn't be of much use.

Where we don't agree is with the similarity of play with Hartnell.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with how things work around here, but be prepared to get called on something. And in almost all cases, the posters here do not do so to attack, but to either seek clarification or spur more conversation (the whole point of a message board, right?). You're welcome to try to get snippity and smart arse like, but it won't do you much good here. This isn't a battle; just hockey talk.

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