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[GDT 08:] 10/24 - FLYERS @ PANTHERS (7:30 pm est)

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Old
10-25-2007, 10:17 AM
  #476
mikedifr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
Knuble=awful...again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Knuble is just horrible in this game.. Looked like a ****ing rookie...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death of a Martian View Post
Oh jesus Knuble is terrible...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Panthers are putting on an impressive forecheck that we're not dealing with well at all.

*** Knuble?
Figures, the 10 minutes I watched he made a couple good defensive plays and didnt look bad to me. I will take your word for it though cause I unfortunately did not see the whole game. Hopefully I get home from work in time tonight.

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Old
10-25-2007, 10:30 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
That D zone thing is really annoying, running around like that, VERY annoying.

Half your forwards, half your defensemen. Two other defensemen in their first year with the Flyers, three of your other forwards in their first year with the Flyers, hard to expect that they aren't going to clunk around for a while.

Isn't it?
The real problem in the D zone is that, with Smith and Timonen as our top pairing, there are going to be very few nights when we have the best D pairing on the ice.

Last night the best D pairing was Kukkonen and Jones, which showed in their ice time.

Bouwmeester controlled the ice, no matter who he was paired with.

We have to be realistic. We had a good start, but we have a young team of great forwards, good goaltending and only average D. We aren't going 72-10.....

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Old
10-25-2007, 11:05 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Darken View Post
...these quotes from Jester and Storm really nail our team right now on the head. Sure you may not like what they are saying but sorry to say its completely true...
If you think this is "completely true" and "hits the nail on the head" ==>

Quote:
This is a really bad team. The only difference between this year and last year is the names on the jerseys.
==> then you are just as reactionary and given to absurd statements as those whom you deride.

Storm and Jester would be correct to pour cold water on the early season fervor but not ice water. As I mentioned above, if half your bench is in their third year in the NHL and half of who's left have played less than ten games on your team, expecting clunker-free play is totally unreasonable, and predicting endless clunkery fails to consider wholly predictable gelling.

I think maybe Storm posted that quote above in the heat of the moment; I am not saying all that they state is so extreme. Of course they make valid points but reality is most likely going to wind up somewhere between "FIFTH IN THE POWER RATINGS!!!" and "This team has HUGE problems".

Any attempt to predict right now is utter speculation.

In my opinion.

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Old
10-25-2007, 11:13 AM
  #479
Ex Storm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post

I think maybe Storm posted that quote above in the heat of the moment; I am not saying all that they state is so extreme. Of course they make valid points but reality is most likely going to wind up somewhere between "FIFTH IN THE POWER RATINGS!!!" and "This team has HUGE problems".
Which is exactly what I did. Then people have temper tantrums because they get all worked up over what I said and that just pisses me off and there's no debate anymore. You've all been around long enough to know, I'm in a foul mood after losses.

It doesn't change the fact that there's lots of problems with our team. The difference between last year and this year is that we have the talent and the time to work them out.

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Old
10-25-2007, 11:16 AM
  #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Storm and Jester would be correct to pour cold water on the early season fervor but not ice water. As I mentioned above, if half your bench is in their third year in the NHL and half of who's left have played less than ten games on your team, expecting clunker-free play is totally unreasonable, and predicting endless clunkery fails to consider wholly predictable gelling.
Professional hockey players who have been playing the sport for 20+ years should be able to operate a functional breakout after a month and a half together in practice. These issues aren't gelling. In fact, they're problems we've had the last two years... This is a coaching issue, IMO, which brings me back to the fact that I didn't like Stevens from the outset.

This team has been playing since mid September together... expecting some things is, in fact, reasonable. Gelling is going to get you the subconscious plays in the offensive zone, etc. working together. Basics, however, are simply about execution... which this team isn't doing in the defensive zone once they get the puck. Too many of the guys panicking and/or chucking the puck around. Some, Richards, in particular, are trying to do too much with it at times and that's leading to turnovers.

Can't write all things off to new bodies.

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Old
10-25-2007, 11:22 AM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darken View Post
I strung a bunch of quotes together here because mixed in some other absurb commentary and predictions on this thread these quotes from Jester and Storm really nail our team right now on the head. Sure you may not like what they are saying but sorry to say its completely true. And no they are not posting just because we looked really awful in this game and they are down on the team, their comments reflect our performance in nearly all the games this year. Without stellar goaltending this team would be beyond a losing record. This horrendously inconsistant play is going to catch up with us at some point, and games like this one will start being the norm.

On a positive note, unlike last year our team certainly has shown an ability to come back from poor starts and being down in a game...perhaps this is because we are getting goaltending thats keeping us in these lopsided affairs.
I had a bunch thrown together too, but decided to quote this one and just give my general point here. For the record, I agree with Darken that Storm and Jester have not changed their stance on this team because of one loss. Thye have been saying not to get too excited. I do feel that Storm is getting a little overdramatic, but isnt that normal???? I am the same way, I am sure everyone remember the Gagne debates a couple years ago...

I do think people need to relax. This team has a lot of new players on it that have not played together before. Say what you want about preseason, but I dont think that gives you enough of an opportunity to build chemisty and mesch as you never really have the same roster playing consistently. Basically, there isnt a line or defensive combination on this team of guys that have played together before, with the exception of Hatcher/Coburn for a short time last year.

I for one, expected this to happen for the first month or two of the season, and wasnt going to decide either way on this team until December, hoping that they stayed around .500 up until that point.(I think I may have posted this a couple times a couple months back) I think some got a little too excited with the 6-1 start, which is fine, but dont jump off the bandwagon after 1 loss, same as after 8 games people are saying Knuble is already is crap(when Briere and Gagne havent been so great either)....players go in and out of slumps at times for know apparent reason. Teams will go 10-2-2, and then follow it up with 3 straight losses, it happens...

I agree that this team has some problems with controlling the game, and getting the puck out of the zone which is precisely why some of us have been saying all along there is not enough dmen on this team that can move the puck. It is also precisely why I said 100 times that this team didnt need goal scorers (which is why I didnt like getting Lupul at first, but he is playing well), it needed playmakers and passers and players that can hold onto the puck.

However, one thing Jester mentioned that I disagree with, is that I think that CAN be attributed to chemistry. 100%, no, but a lot of it can be. If you do not know the players on the ice with you well, you may be hesitant in where to go with the puck to get it out of the zone. You then start dumping it out, and no organized attack happens. We have attemps at cycling the puck, but nothing comes from it because all the forwards may not necessarily know where the other forwards on that line are going to be. I think the fact that they have had some success on the powerplay, when there is a clear design and time to set up shows you that these guys can gel, it is just going to take some time at even strength when you only have a split second to make a decision.

I am pretty much in agreement with most of what KZ and JXC have posted. This team needs time, I recognize some of the problems they have, but I am not going to get too excited in either direction until at least the 20 game mark of the season, unless of course we are 6-14 at that point which I doubt....To say this is a horrible team, or bad team or even a good team at this point just doesnt make sense to me cause we just do not know how it will all play out.

The next month will basically show us how good of a coach Stevens is...Can he get this team to gel. The GM gave him the pieces, now he needs to see if he can put them together to where they work. If not, it needs to be evaluated whether the problem is him, or it isnt the right pieces, but we cant make that decision for some time.

I for one am excited about one thing, this team does not roll over and die at the first sign of adversity like it did last year...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
The real problem in the D zone is that, with Smith and Timonen as our top pairing, there are going to be very few nights when we have the best D pairing on the ice.

Last night the best D pairing was Kukkonen and Jones, which showed in their ice time.

Bouwmeester controlled the ice, no matter who he was paired with.

We have to be realistic. We had a good start, but we have a young team of great forwards, good goaltending and only average D. We aren't going 72-10.....
What you said is why I didnt want Timonen and Smith together. I felt that Timonen would be running around trying to play too much defense and not concentrating on skating with the puck...

How about trying something like Timonen/Coburn Kukkonen/Smith? Coburn has a sure handed dman to teach him two way play; Kukkonen and Smith act as the shut down pair with Kukkonen being the steady one with his stick and the puck, and Smith playing physical and covering in front of the net. Hatcher needs to be on the third pair at this point. He does some things well, but not enough to be in the top 4. Jones has been playing well, but he to me is also a 3rd pairing dman.

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Old
10-25-2007, 11:36 AM
  #482
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I think we will learn a lot about this team with tonight's game against TB. We got a bit unlucky against EDM, but this is the first time we've been comprehensively outplayed and we've lost the game. Do we start playing better or do we continue to put out bad performances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr
What you said is why I didnt want Timonen and Smith together. I felt that Timonen would be running around trying to play too much defense and not concentrating on skating with the puck...

How about trying something like Timonen/Coburn Kukkonen/Smith? Coburn has a sure handed dman to teach him two way play; Kukkonen and Smith act as the shut down pair with Kukkonen being the steady one with his stick and the puck, and Smith playing physical and covering in front of the net. Hatcher needs to be on the third pair at this point. He does some things well, but not enough to be in the top 4. Jones has been playing well, but he to me is also a 3rd pairing dman.
Hatcher-Jones would be the pairing from hell.

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Old
10-25-2007, 02:39 PM
  #483
mikedifr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I think we will learn a lot about this team with tonight's game against TB. We got a bit unlucky against EDM, but this is the first time we've been comprehensively outplayed and we've lost the game. Do we start playing better or do we continue to put out bad performances?



Hatcher-Jones would be the pairing from hell.
Yeah, they might be, but they would be the third pairing and I dont think we have a better option at this point.

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