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Was Torres really that bad?

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Old
03-22-2004, 04:50 PM
  #1
radiohouse
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Was Torres really that bad?

I was at the Nashville game when Torres got demoted and benched and admittedly, he played poorly, but he is a 20 goal scorer and I think he's better suited (and the Oilers are too) if he's playing on lines 1 or 2.

Granted the Oil are playing really well right now and the common thought is "why mess with a good thing." That being said, Craig "The Radish" MacTavish has tinkered with the lines during this stretch. I would rather see Torres playing quality minutes on the top two and PP then fourth line clean up duty.

Horcoff has played well, but Smytty needs skill to set him up if he's gonna break his goalless in eight streak.

Smyth-York-Torres
Hemsky-Nedved-Dvorak
Moreau-Stoll-Horcoff
Pisani-Oates-Laraque

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03-22-2004, 04:56 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiohouse
I was at the Nashville game when Torres got demoted and benched and admittedly, he played poorly, but he is a 20 goal scorer and I think he's better suited (and the Oilers are too) if he's playing on lines 1 or 2.

Granted the Oil are playing really well right now and the common thought is "why mess with a good thing." That being said, Craig "The Radish" MacTavish has tinkered with the lines during this stretch. I would rather see Torres playing quality minutes on the top two and PP then fourth line clean up duty.

Horcoff has played well, but Smytty needs skill to set him up if he's gonna break his goalless in eight streak.

Smyth-York-Torres
Hemsky-Nedved-Dvorak
Moreau-Stoll-Horcoff
Pisani-Oates-Laraque
I respect MacT for playing him less if he's not playing well. Its that kind of coaching that allowed him to be a 20 goal scorer; you can't change your philosophy as soon as someone succeeds in the system, otherwise you are basically showing no faith in what created the player in the first place

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03-22-2004, 06:27 PM
  #3
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
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He came back and couldn't get back in the saddle with Dvorak and Nedved. He just doesn't seem to gel with the type of game they play. Also, against Nashville, he was acting like quite the idiot for the first half of the game. Get him on a line where he has the advantage against the opposition, and he'll still get things done.

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03-22-2004, 07:24 PM
  #4
Matts
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If you can HS Hemsky

then you can certainly diminish the in-game role of a Raffi Torres. He was slumping a little before his injury in Nsh and he hasn't been getting many scoring chances since he came back. So if the kid isn't finding a way to get chances, he's obviously not gonna score. And he isn't Bob Gainey out there so that means his icetime will be decreased.

And if Mikhnov is as advertised, Torres in '05 could find himself in the agitator role the Oilers originally envisioned him in.

And if you're looking for a guy who showed offensive promise in his first Oilers season only to settle into something less than being depended on offensively, then look at Todd's first full season:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...3?pid=00003383

27 points in 45 games in '95 and it would be eight more seasons before he eclipised the 40 point mark.

So it could be that next year we have Smyth-Mihknov-Moreau-Torres on the left side with Raffi being sort of like Chimera last year providing hustle and jam and some scoring touch on the 4th line left wing.

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03-22-2004, 07:57 PM
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guys, I think we should hold back on the Miknov thing. Just cause he's coming over and he has had good reviews..doesn't warrant the fact that he'll tear it up in the NHL. I think he will be assessed appropriately before any roster management (trading a LW or moving Torres to agitator role) will be done. I'm thinking prospect camp (if we still have it) or trainning camp (if there is still a season next year). I'm hoping he gets a small role at first playing on the 4th line or something. Wouldn't that be awesome..him and george in between stoll. Ouch!!

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03-22-2004, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFHACommish
guys, I think we should hold back on the Miknov thing. Just cause he's coming over and he has had good reviews..doesn't warrant the fact that he'll tear it up in the NHL. I think he will be assessed appropriately before any roster management (trading a LW or moving Torres to agitator role) will be done. I'm thinking prospect camp (if we still have it) or trainning camp (if there is still a season next year). I'm hoping he gets a small role at first playing on the 4th line or something. Wouldn't that be awesome..him and george in between stoll. Ouch!!
I say sign him to a short try-out deal and let him play the last 5 games on the 4th line this season .

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03-22-2004, 08:50 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
then you can certainly diminish the in-game role of a Raffi Torres. He was slumping a little before his injury in Nsh and he hasn't been getting many scoring chances since he came back. So if the kid isn't finding a way to get chances, he's obviously not gonna score. And he isn't Bob Gainey out there so that means his icetime will be decreased.

And if Mikhnov is as advertised, Torres in '05 could find himself in the agitator role the Oilers originally envisioned him in.

And if you're looking for a guy who showed offensive promise in his first Oilers season only to settle into something less than being depended on offensively, then look at Todd's first full season:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...3?pid=00003383

27 points in 45 games in '95 and it would be eight more seasons before he eclipised the 40 point mark.

So it could be that next year we have Smyth-Mihknov-Moreau-Torres on the left side with Raffi being sort of like Chimera last year providing hustle and jam and some scoring touch on the 4th line left wing.
So because you are bringing over a player from Russia who has yet to play a professional hockey game, Torres (your leading goal scorer and a player who for a VERY large chunk of the season was a player being used to bring up a line and fellow teammates to the level of play he was at), gets bumped down to 4th line duty.

Maybe Raffi Torres was just hitting the tip of the iceberg this season? Maybe next year, his offensive game becomes more consistent and he scores 30 goals? Who knows.

But your logic here doesn't make any sense at all.

Thats like the Blue Jackets saying, Hey if we get Alexander Ovechkin next year, I think we should bump down Rick Nash to 3rd line duty because we already know what hes capable of, and to give Ovechkin his shot.

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03-22-2004, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock
So because you are bringing over a player from Russia who has yet to play a professional hockey game, Torres (your leading goal scorer and a player who for a VERY large chunk of the season was a player being used to bring up a line and fellow teammates to the level of play he was at), gets bumped down to 4th line duty.

Maybe Raffi Torres was just hitting the tip of the iceberg this season? Maybe next year, his offensive game becomes more consistent and he scores 30 goals? Who knows.

But your logic here doesn't make any sense at all.

Thats like the Blue Jackets saying, Hey if we get Alexander Ovechkin next year, I think we should bump down Rick Nash to 3rd line duty because we already know what hes capable of, and to give Ovechkin his shot.
I agree with the spirit of your post, but Mikinov has played pro hockey.

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03-22-2004, 09:07 PM
  #9
Brock
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Originally Posted by The Rage
I agree with the spirit of your post, but Mikinov has played pro hockey.
He's played in the RSL for the past three years. Ok, so he hasn't played in North American yet then. Many players have had success in Russia and come over here and failed. The same number that have had success in the CHL and failed in the NHL. Mikhnov is an NHL prospect and no one knows how they are going to pan out.

Thats why Im saying its absolute lunacy to be handing him an NHL job, while pushing out of the way the clubs leading goal scorer at the exact same age as Mikhnov.

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03-22-2004, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock
He's played in the RSL for the past three years. Ok, so he hasn't played in North American yet then. Many players have had success in Russia and come over here and failed. The same number that have had success in the CHL and failed in the NHL. Mikhnov is an NHL prospect and no one knows how they are going to pan out.

Thats why Im saying its absolute lunacy to be handing him an NHL job, while pushing out of the way the clubs leading goal scorer at the exact same age as Mikhnov.
Agreed.. I personally feel a lot of people are putting too much stock on Mikhnov. He looks like he could become a great player but he has yet to play a game in North America and none of us really have any clue as to how close he is. Torres has looked great all year and I personally believe it would be foolish to relegate him to 4th line pest duties.. he has potted 20 goals in his rookie season, why drop him down to the fourth line? I'm pretty sure Mikhnov will at least play a few games down in Toronto to get his feet wet before he even gets a chance with the Oilers.. I wouldn't be handing him the second line left wing spot just yet.

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Old
03-22-2004, 09:18 PM
  #11
The Rage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock
He's played in the RSL for the past three years. Ok, so he hasn't played in North American yet then. Many players have had success in Russia and come over here and failed. The same number that have had success in the CHL and failed in the NHL. Mikhnov is an NHL prospect and no one knows how they are going to pan out.

Thats why Im saying its absolute lunacy to be handing him an NHL job, while pushing out of the way the clubs leading goal scorer at the exact same age as Mikhnov.
I reiterate, I agree with you.

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03-22-2004, 09:36 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by The Rage
I reiterate, I agree with you.
Now, I'm not complaining...but I love how a post about Torres' play and perhaps an unwarrented decision to move him to 4th line duty turns into a Mikhnov will he/won't he debate.

So easily sidetracked...must stay focused for the good of the post...

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03-22-2004, 10:07 PM
  #13
Matts
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No

I just said that the last time the Oilers gushed this much about a guy, it was Hemsky and he was fastracked when you look at the Oilers usual MO.

But the Nash/Ovechukin scanario is so far fetched because we wouldn't be demoting Rick Nash here.

it would be Raffi Torres. Now I like Torres but if you look at hsi splits he's been very streaky and that's to be expected by a young kid but it also means the jury isn't out on him yet and he might be a guy who eventually settles into 15 goals a season

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03-23-2004, 12:44 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock
So because you are bringing over a player from Russia who has yet to play a professional hockey game, Torres (your leading goal scorer and a player who for a VERY large chunk of the season was a player being used to bring up a line and fellow teammates to the level of play he was at), gets bumped down to 4th line duty.

Maybe Raffi Torres was just hitting the tip of the iceberg this season? Maybe next year, his offensive game becomes more consistent and he scores 30 goals? Who knows.

But your logic here doesn't make any sense at all.

Thats like the Blue Jackets saying, Hey if we get Alexander Ovechkin next year, I think we should bump down Rick Nash to 3rd line duty because we already know what hes capable of, and to give Ovechkin his shot.
Thank you for the much needed reality check.

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Old
03-23-2004, 05:51 PM
  #15
Matts
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Well, score one for Raffi:)

York has assists in his last two games but he simply can't shoot the puck or if he can he's afraid to do it in a game situation. But Torres took that demotion and went out last night and played like a possessed wrecking ball.

You don't often see Miller shy away from the forecheck but he saw Torres coming and actually turned off to the side to try and tackle him. I couldn't believe there wasn't a penalty called but of course it all worked out very well at the end of that shift

In any case this was the Torres that warmed our hearts earlier, ie banging and crashing but getting into scoring positions as well.

You don't really mind a scorer slumping just as long as he's getting his chances but Raffi was going through a stretch where he wasn't even finding a spot to take a decent shot.

Last night he remedied that and the 4th line was the latest group to step up in what has been a delicously balanced effort from the team.

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