HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Hainsey and Hossa to be traded soon?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-24-2004, 01:53 AM
  #26
tinyzombies
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: LA via Montreal
Posts: 11,955
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman08
i know

oh and raketheleaves: i have a q for ya above.. im curious as to what exactly you meant in your statement
I meant that they haven't grown into their bodies. They don't have that level of quickness that is necessary to set them apart right now. Especially Hainsey. He is so slow in his own end. It could be partly mental like you say, because they don't understand the game or can't make the reads that they will be able to make in a couple years.

Look at how much Komisarek has improved his reads and look how much quicker he looks.

tinyzombies is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 01:58 AM
  #27
tinyzombies
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: LA via Montreal
Posts: 11,955
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
Yeah I know. But the guy wants to lose Brisebois AND Rivet (I'll assume he wants to dump Quintal too) just to re-sign Kovalev. He doesn't seem to understand that the whole right side of the D would be... gone, non-existant. That's crazy!

Ryder and Ribeiro's contracts will go up by about 1 million$ each. Not that big a deal. Souray's may be a different story though. But none of these guys will be making 4 million. Nowhere close to that. They will just resemble Markov and Zednick's contracts (2 million a year).
I definitely want Brisebois gone and I believe Komisarek or even Hainsey can step into that role, especially if paired with Souray. Brisebois is nothing special, come on wake up.

Rivet I don't like either because he is so undependable at times in our end. I also said we probably can't get rid of both of them. But that Brisebois contract is just too much for a stay-at-home defenseman when we can just pick up Bob Boughner or somebody like that for cheap to do the same job if Komi or Hainsey aren't ready and provide real toughness and not just to act tough.

I also think Hainsey can step into a role next year as well and that Quintal will retire.

If there is a strike though, all of this will change.

This is all in the context of the waiver wire discussion we were having earlier as well. I was just saying that if there aren't enough spots to protect the players that need to be protected, that we could expose Breeze-by and that nobody would take that huge contract... ever. Not even the Rangers at this point.

tinyzombies is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 01:59 AM
  #28
sandman08
Registered User
 
sandman08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hyderabad, India
Country: India
Posts: 2,382
vCash: 500
i think with komi, he was never really looked upon to lead the team offensively or to be an offensive threat of any sort, so he is learnin to play good solid D and go from there.. thats easier (especially with his size) than being asked to be an offensive-dman like hainsey.. much more "intangibles" i guess w/ being an offensive-dman

sandman08 is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 02:02 AM
  #29
sandman08
Registered User
 
sandman08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hyderabad, India
Country: India
Posts: 2,382
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
Yeah I know. But the guy wants to lose Brisebois AND Rivet (I'll assume he wants to dump Quintal too) just to re-sign Kovalev. He doesn't seem to understand that the whole right side of the D would be... gone, non-existant. That's crazy!

Ryder and Ribeiro's contracts will go up by about 1 million$ each. Not that big a deal. Souray's may be a different story though. But none of these guys will be making 4 million. Nowhere close to that. They will just resemble Markov and Zednick's contracts (2 million a year).
any increase is a big one when we're already "losing money" (although i do think thats just pressure tactics to get the tax issue w/ the govt taken care of faster and favourably)

not only that, but w/o knowing whats gonna happen with the CBA and such, the team may very well see that money we "had" freed up gone because of cap levels being "lower" than thought/planned


Last edited by sandman08: 03-24-2004 at 02:06 AM.
sandman08 is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 02:02 AM
  #30
tinyzombies
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: LA via Montreal
Posts: 11,955
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman08
i think with komi, he was never really looked upon to lead the team offensively or to be an offensive threat of any sort, so he is learnin to play good solid D and go from there.. thats easier (especially with his size) than being asked to be an offensive-dman like hainsey.. much more "intangibles" i guess w/ being an offensive-dman
True.

Komisarek has stepped up his offensive game lately though, I wouldn't write him off offensively. He is skating with the puck up to the blueline and is even moving in from the point and making one-on-one moves (well, he did it once last week).

tinyzombies is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 02:05 AM
  #31
sandman08
Registered User
 
sandman08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hyderabad, India
Country: India
Posts: 2,382
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
True.

Komisarek has stepped up his offensive game lately though, I wouldn't write him off offensively. He is skating with the puck up to the blueline and is even moving in from the point and making one-on-one moves (well, he did it once last week).
he's confident in his D now and he knows CJ is confident in him as a player
if hes confident in his ability to play D then the offensive game will come
i just meant he wasnt a guy who's game is mirrored around say a brian leetch or a scott neidermayer type of player.. komi is more of a foote or stevens' type of player, he can do the offensive stuff but he can also do the defensive stuff as well.. d more so

sandman08 is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 02:09 AM
  #32
not quite yoda
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Qatar
Posts: 3,516
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=raketheleaves]
1.Rivet I don't like either because he is so undependable at times in our end.

2.that Brisebois contract is just too much for a stay-at-home defenseman

3.we can just pick up Bob Boughner or somebody like that for cheap to do the same job

4.I also think Hainsey can step into a role next year as well and that Quintal will retire.

I SAY:

1. Rivet is doing just fine right now. Markov is making more mistakes than Rivet these days.

2. Brisebois is not a stay-at-home. He is a two-way D. He can move the puck.

3. You say that Brisebois' contract has a 1 M$ buy out. Even if that is true, 1 M$ + Boughner's salary (2.35M$) = 3.35 M$. So we save 1 million. YOUPPIE! Is Boughner rtealy as good as Brisebois? Check their career stats.

4. You don't seem to understand that the right side of the D must be populated by RIGHT HANDED Ds. Brisebois, Quintal and Rivet: righties. Hainsey and Beauchemin: lefties. We have NO ROOM on the left side: Souray, Markov, Bouillon.

not quite yoda is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 02:13 AM
  #33
not quite yoda
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Qatar
Posts: 3,516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman08
the team may very well see that money we "had" freed up gone because of cap levels being "lower" than thought/planned
There won't be a hard cap. It will be something else.

Andif there is a cap, the owners and fans will have to wait 2 or more years before the players have given in.

I don't think it'll happen.

not quite yoda is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 02:35 AM
  #34
sandman08
Registered User
 
sandman08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hyderabad, India
Country: India
Posts: 2,382
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
There won't be a hard cap. It will be something else.

Andif there is a cap, the owners and fans will have to wait 2 or more years before the players have given in.

I don't think it'll happen.
im gonna take a wait and see approach to it
if it doesnt happen, then there will be some form of soft cap or luxury tax or whatever and if it is set at 40 mil like a lot of ppl are speculating, and the team currently needs to make the 3rd round to break even, then if we were to go over 40 mil it'd cost us more (meaning we'd have to make the finals to break even im assuming) .. of course thats dependent on the limit set for the salary and the tax % and all that but you get the point im sure

sandman08 is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 03:20 AM
  #35
Rectificator
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 73
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
Well, Hossa and Hainsey have been in the organization for a while. Both have had their shots with the big team. Both have looked good at times. Both are now in the AHL raking up OK numbers but nothing spectacular. Both were drafted in the 1st round of the 2000 Draft.

They are getting on in age. Next season, when the time comes for the waiver draft in the fall, I am under the distinct impression that BOTH Hossa and Hainsey must be protected by the team. If they are not protected, we risk (and probably will be) losing them both to other teams.

Looking at the left side of our D: Souray and Markov will be protected. I also like Bouillon's chances. Beauchemin is coming on as well. This would leave no room for Hainsey. Sending him down to the AHL would also force us to expose him on waivers. The team is also looking well at forward. Of course Juneau, Dackell and Perreault will likely not be offered new contracts. This opens up spots (assuming we don't go after UFAs) for youth. However you would think that Plekanec, Perezhogin, Higgins and Kastsitsyn have priority over Hossa.

All this to say that the time has come to make a decision on Hossa and Hainsey. Will Gainey make room for them with the big club? If the answer is no, then we risk losing them both in the fall.

I would think that the time has come to trade them both. For veterans? other prospects? draft picks? I don't know. But it is clear that decision day is coming. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them shipped out on Entry Draft day.
I understand you being worry about Hainsey's future with us since he is improving really slowly and is just not ready at the moment... Bouillon has been our most consistent defenseman all the season long and has a one way contract for the next season so I really don't see Hainsey make the team as a regular... Maybe will he be used like 7th defenseman and that Habs coatching staff will work with him during the practices who know...

But I don'T understand why you are so worry about Hossa... There will be several open spots for fowards next season and IMO Hossa is a lock! The guy work hard, is reliable defensively, big frame and physically mature, is very effective and combative along the board so he wont hurt you!! Hossa also has great offensive skills... great hands, is a great skater, good shot and its all about confidence in his case... At worst you can play him on the third or fourth line until he get better!

You just cant let a such skilled prospect go for peanuts! If the Habs had a poor prospects bank, then Hossa would be considered a top notch prospect here be sure!

Rectificator is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 06:46 AM
  #36
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
The best
 
Marc the Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 58,585
vCash: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by db23
Gainey said he was looking for a big centre at the trade deadline, then picks up 185 pound Jim Dowd who is 35 and gives away 225 pound chad Kilger who is 27.

hmmm, let's see, maybe because Jim Dowd is twice the player Chad Kilger is?

Maybe because Chad Kilger actually makes more than Dowd?

Marc the Habs Fan is online now  
Old
03-24-2004, 07:30 AM
  #37
Démon Blond
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Québec
Posts: 918
vCash: 500
*sigh*

Guys... Patience with Hossa and Hainsey... patience!

They have loads of potential and I wouldn't trade them. Even if Hossa turns out to be a 3th liner and Hainsey a 4-5 defenseman, they will have proven to be NHLers and how many persons can say that? Less than a thousand worldwide. A team does need lower lines and defensive pairings players too, we can't have 4 1st lines

For those who might have wondered where I was, I hate the new forum layout, that and other forums to watch diminished my presence here... but I'm still following the Habs and their amazing season

Démon Blond is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 07:50 AM
  #38
Mooch
Registered User
 
Mooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NC/Toronto/Florida
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,960
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Mooch
Keep both. Their young, give them time. Why do fans never give propects time?

Especially Defensmen who need more time than forwards. Plus was Hossa that bad when he played on the first line earlier this season? I dont think so, i mean he wasent dominant, but he was certainly sound in terms of playing at the nhl level. Same with hainsey, they both just need a bit more ahl conditioning, which they should get plenty of this season going into next. Consistency is the hardest thing to nail down in the nhl.

Give them time, and dont give up yet!

Mooch is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 08:04 AM
  #39
Habber
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Saskatoon, Sask.
Posts: 2,030
vCash: 500
Don't you think if Hossa and Hainsey aren't part of the future that BG would have traded them away at the deadline? Why would he heave traded Balej away if Hossa and Hainsey have no future here anyway? Both Hainsey and Hossa will be in training camp next year and will compete for spots.

I think it's a little premature to be talking about who we might lose at the waiver draft, a lot can happen between now and then, and we definately should not be making decisions on the future of two prospects based on who we might lose 6 months from now.

We've got lots of UFA's, guys with big contracts that can be left unprotected (despite what espion says many guys with similar contracts to Breezy are routinely left unprotected) and a potential labor dispute that may negate the whole process anyway.

Seems to me like someone is trying to make fire where there's no smoke.

Habber is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 08:34 AM
  #40
BJCOLLINS
Registered User
 
BJCOLLINS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Radio Clash on Pirate Satelite
Posts: 1,571
vCash: 500
It's a good thing we didn't judge M Ryder so hard when he was that age or even when he was in the ECHL. Can you imagine the out cry if Ryder was traded because he was young and trying to find his game. Everyone talks about Hainsey's attitude. I remember when Chris Chelios came to town....WOW....talk about a royal pain in the ass, he was so full of himself that he took up 2 seats on the bus.
I think we need to have a little more patience with these guys. Hainsey more than Hossa needs to mature, everyone here knows that it takes some D-men a little longer to develope. Hossa has some HUGE skates to follow. While some people don't expect him to produce like his brother, others do, it's got to be hard on him always playing second fiddle or trying to live up to unreal expectations.
In the regular season I would rather have Hainsey as a 6th D and Hossa as a 4th line winger than the the guys we have there now. We are not going to get 2-1st rounders back in any trade we make for these 2-1st round guys.

BJCOLLINS is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 11:13 AM
  #41
tiredman
Registered User
 
tiredman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ville de Québec
Country:
Posts: 4,980
vCash: 500
I hope Hainsey won't be traded

tiredman is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 05:27 PM
  #42
Marchy79
Registered User
 
Marchy79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Barrie
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,915
vCash: 500
Nope... They wont be traded until we get something better...

As it stands right now, they both proved a lot this season in the AHL...

Last year, Hainsey was not impressive in the AHL... This year, he shown that he could've handled Bouillon's role (I argued that here before...) But Bouillon brought another element to the team. Hainsey will overtake Bouillon in next years training camp IMO... He's been awesome in Hamilton, like Markov was when he was down there... There should be no doubt who the # 7 will be next year... (IMO it will be one of Beauchemin/Bouillon, whichever one survives the waiver line)... Effectively, one of our guys could be traded or hurt...But in pure speculation/educated guesses... Souray/Markov/Brisebois/Rivet/Komisarek have roles next year on this team... Leaving Hainsey/Beauchemin/Bouillon to fight for # 6.. and the # 7.

As for Hossa, he's really turned a page in the 2nd half of his season in the AHL. IMO he'll be fighting for a role in next years TC, and he'll win it. Dagenais IMO will be in tough next year... There's little doubt to that... Fire's are coming from many corners to take the top 2 lines away from any current hab. Kastsitsyn, Perezhogin, Hossa... just to name a few who can take the role... But Hossa has no years of eligibility, and seeing as to he brings a rare element to this team (SIZE)... This kid will become an excellent team guy next year IMO... Remember his draft card stated he'd be an excellent second liner, who can will be capable of filling in for a player on the top 2 lines...

As for people guessing why Gainey got rid of Kilger, and Gained Dowd...
Kilger's 'potential' was never turned, and he was one of these roster roles that can be had by guys who wanted it more and proved it day in, day out... The difference is, Kilger COULD'VE been a good 3rd line center... DOWD IS a VERY good third line center, who also has a Right handed shot (adds an element). I liked Chad, and ultimately wish we were able to keep his contract regardless... But, his time was up... for too long he did not produce a solid game, and he got punished for it... To be frank, we should have sent him down the first time he cleared waivers, therefore he'd of had his potential last supper next year.

Marchy79 is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 05:31 PM
  #43
felixd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,380
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=espion]
Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves

We have NO ROOM on the left side: Souray, Markov, Bouillon.
Yeah we do, Bouillon is expendable.

felixd is offline  
Old
03-24-2004, 07:25 PM
  #44
BJCOLLINS
Registered User
 
BJCOLLINS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Radio Clash on Pirate Satelite
Posts: 1,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by felixd
Yeah we do, Bouillon is expendable.
Right On!

BJCOLLINS is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:48 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.