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Old
11-20-2007, 08:56 AM
  #76
aragorn
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I was a big supporter of the Richardson signing in the summer and still am. Not only has he been a stable influence on the blueline but dropping a couple of guys in fights also gives us some much needed grit back there. In fact, Donovan, Richardson and Robitaille have all been very good depth signings for this team.

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Old
11-20-2007, 10:05 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Snonie View Post
Exactly the point.. WHEN he has been back there.. in 3 (full) games out of how many? I'm definitely glad that Richardson is doing good, and so far Schubie is doing fine on forward. But doesn't it seem like only a minority here are thinking of the long term?

1)Richardson has had 19 years, he's not lasting forever. I loved seeing him KO that kid in one punch, but can he do that through the whole season and still have steam for the post season?

2)Schubie is just getting into the prime of his career, and his development has turned into an experiment to see how just how many games in a row on forward it takes before Schubie loses years of training AS A DEFENCEMAN.

3)There have been strong hints in the past that he's not happy as a forward. How many people will be eating crow if he finds the team that WILL play him as defence?

I'm crossing my fingers that Richardson continues to play well, for the strength of the team as a whole, but will he be here 2, 3, 4 years down the road?
You make some good points, but I disagree.

I'm not normally a fan of the "you'll do what you're told" school of coaching, but I think it has to apply here. Schubert is signed for 3 years, so he doesn't really have any leverage in demanding a trade. You don't ever want to burn bridges (since I think it can come back to haunt an organization) but on a contending team, everyone has to accept their role, even if it's not ideal. There are a lot of guys on this team would be be playing a larger role on a bad team, but sometimes you've just got to suck it up, continue to work hard and wait for your chance. As you say, that chance with Schubert could be as soon as next year, if Richardson retires.

In the meantime, playing Schubert up front gives us a 7th defenseman every night in case someone gets hurt, or takes a penalty (he's usually a defenseman on the PK when Phillips or Volchenkov are in the box).

And besides, I really like Schubert's game as a forward. He brings some energy to the 4th line, and he's physical.

It might be short-term thinking, but how good is Schubert ever going to be? His top-end is a second pairing defenseman, IMO (and that's not a knock, I like the guy). I'm willing to sacrifice a year of his development to give us the best chance to win this year.

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Old
11-20-2007, 10:15 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by 11sens11 View Post
The ten games that McGratton has played, he hasn't looked out of place.
In those ten games, he's probably touched the puck about 5 times.

He's brutal.

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Old
11-20-2007, 10:17 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
In those ten games, he's probably touched the puck about 5 times.

He's brutal.
He actually played reasonably well against Florida earlier this year (he actually got an assist), but otherwise I'd be inclined to agree.

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Old
11-20-2007, 10:48 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by jamiebez View Post
You make some good points, but I disagree.

I'm not normally a fan of the "you'll do what you're told" school of coaching, but I think it has to apply here. Schubert is signed for 3 years, so he doesn't really have any leverage in demanding a trade. You don't ever want to burn bridges (since I think it can come back to haunt an organization) but on a contending team, everyone has to accept their role, even if it's not ideal. There are a lot of guys on this team would be be playing a larger role on a bad team, but sometimes you've just got to suck it up, continue to work hard and wait for your chance. As you say, that chance with Schubert could be as soon as next year, if Richardson retires.

I'm willing to sacrifice a year of his development to give us the best chance to win this year.
Yeah but we may need him to play as a GOOD Dman this year to win the Cup.

Just because we have him locked up for 3 years at a cheap price doesnt mean we should misuse him.

In fact, if we move too slowly with him, then we risk doing the one thing we should avoid: he may start developing as a great Dman JUST as our three years is ending.

You know what that means: pay him big bucks to keep him, or lose him. He'll be tired of getting paid a low wage for 4 years and will be eager for some big money to compensate.

Really, what we are doing with SChubert now may give us the 'worst of all worlds'. We're payiing him less and may get a mediocre performance out of him: then just as he starts to imnprove, his three years will be up and we'll lose him!

Better to start improving him NOW, so that we can enjoy three years of a great Dman wo we're getting real cheap. The clock is ticking and we're wasting time!

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11-20-2007, 11:01 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rban View Post
Yeah but we may need him to play as a GOOD Dman this year to win the Cup.

Just because we have him locked up for 3 years at a cheap price doesnt mean we should misuse him.

In fact, if we move too slowly with him, then we risk doing the one thing we should avoid: he may start developing as a great Dman JUST as our three years is ending.

You know what that means: pay him big bucks to keep him, or lose him. He'll be tired of getting paid a low wage for 4 years and will be eager for some big money to compensate.

Really, what we are doing with SChubert now may give us the 'worst of all worlds'. We're payiing him less and may get a mediocre performance out of him: then just as he starts to imnprove, his three years will be up and we'll lose him!

Better to start improving him NOW, so that we can enjoy three years of a great Dman wo we're getting real cheap. The clock is ticking and we're wasting time!
Forget it, Schubert needs to work on his english

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Old
11-20-2007, 01:25 PM
  #82
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Once again...I was not comfortable with Schubert last night. He was ok on the penalty kill once, but I cringe everytime he's on the PP. He's horrible at keeping the puck in the zone and he just does not distribute the puck well. The forwards from the other team know that all they have to do is pressure him a little and he panicks with the puck. I know he has a booming shot, but right now, it's not worth it.

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Old
11-20-2007, 01:38 PM
  #83
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So far he has outplayed Schubert back there....so no complaints from me.

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Old
11-20-2007, 01:46 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
In those ten games, he's probably touched the puck about 5 times.

He's brutal.
I agree and disagree. He is a decent player for an all out enforcer. But compared to the players that he might replace in the Sens lineup.... Richardson, McGrattan, Foligno, Robitaille... he does indeed suck goats. There are worse NHL players than McGrattan. Thankfully they do not play for the Sensators.

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Old
11-20-2007, 02:13 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rban View Post
Yeah but we may need him to play as a GOOD Dman this year to win the Cup.

Just because we have him locked up for 3 years at a cheap price doesnt mean we should misuse him.

In fact, if we move too slowly with him, then we risk doing the one thing we should avoid: he may start developing as a great Dman JUST as our three years is ending.

You know what that means: pay him big bucks to keep him, or lose him. He'll be tired of getting paid a low wage for 4 years and will be eager for some big money to compensate.

Really, what we are doing with SChubert now may give us the 'worst of all worlds'. We're payiing him less and may get a mediocre performance out of him: then just as he starts to imnprove, his three years will be up and we'll lose him!

Better to start improving him NOW, so that we can enjoy three years of a great Dman wo we're getting real cheap. The clock is ticking and we're wasting time!
There's no nice way to say this, so I'll just come right out with it: I don't think Schubert is ever going to be that great. It's not like we're sitting on the next Dion Phaneuf here - at best, he'll turn out to be a 2nd pairing defenseman in the NHL who gets second unit PP duty.

In other words, I don't think keeping Schubert will ever cost us a fortune. His next contract will be for more than this one, for sure, but I don't think he'll ever make more than role player money ($2M-ish or so).

There will always be a crappy team out there with cap space who will throw a lot of money at him and try and make him a #1 (like Washington with Pothier), but at some point guys just have to decide if it's more important to play a smaller role on a winning team or play big minutes as a -20 and lose more games than you win.

If I'm wrong, and he turns out better than I expect, then it's a good problem to have

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Old
11-20-2007, 03:25 PM
  #86
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebez View Post
There's no nice way to say this, so I'll just come right out with it: I don't think Schubert is ever going to be that great. It's not like we're sitting on the next Dion Phaneuf here - at best, he'll turn out to be a 2nd pairing defenseman in the NHL who gets second unit PP duty.

In other words, I don't think keeping Schubert will ever cost us a fortune. His next contract will be for more than this one, for sure, but I don't think he'll ever make more than role player money ($2M-ish or so).

There will always be a crappy team out there with cap space who will throw a lot of money at him and try and make him a #1 (like Washington with Pothier), but at some point guys just have to decide if it's more important to play a smaller role on a winning team or play big minutes as a -20 and lose more games than you win.

If I'm wrong, and he turns out better than I expect, then it's a good problem to have
Of course he won't be Phaneuf, but I'd be happy with a solid all-round type like Rivet. 2nd pairing, 2nd unit PP and 2nd unit PK. Considering that Redden is up for a contract and the replacements would be Corvo and Lee... Schubert could end up playing a lot in that (2nd/2nd/2nd) role.

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