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GDT: 11/28/07. Florida Panthers at Washington Capitals. Verizon Center. 7p.m.

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Old
11-29-2007, 07:11 PM
  #251
LadyIce
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Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
I'm of the opinion its going to take a lot longer than a few weeks for this team to be a complete reflection of BB. While he does know many of these players, he knows them as the "Stars" he treated them like in the AHL. He still needs time to evaluate his team, develop his plan for this team, and then mold them into his vision.

Looking at Columbus pre-Hitch 06-07 and post-Hitch 06-07, there's not much to see by record. But obviously that time in 06-07 paid dividends for that team this year.
After this weekend, the upcoming week, which is game free, should go a long way toward BB getting to know the players, what roles they play and building chemistry and line combos. Hopefully we'll see results when they return to the ice on Dec. 7.

God knows it can't get much worse...at least I hope not!

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11-29-2007, 11:22 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
LOL. I know i am one of the few that does not blame Jagr for what happened in his time here. I fully blame Ted / GMGM for bringing in all those studs but then hired Cassidy, a young nobody minor leaguer, to tell Jagr Lang Nylander et al, how to win?

Cassidy was brought in to save $. Jagr told him to go blank himself and we are still rebuilding, many moons later, from that penny pinching.

I smell your credibility going down the drain...I mean come on. He's a gutless puke of a quitter with less heart than Santana Moss.

He embodies everything wrong in today's prima donna pro athlete.

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11-29-2007, 11:31 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
I have no idea if he's the right guy or not. My main point is that we're not going to know whether he is the right guy or not after his first week on the job. That 'extended breakin period' that I mentioned would be all of three weeks, essentially, and I think that's a fair amount of time for him to establish his imprint on the team. It's not as though he's coming in and not changing the system. He is not making wholesale changes but he apparently is changing a fair amount. The players are going to need some time to digest the new approach. That seems readily apparent.

This team might have the talent on paper to be a playoff team. (I think it's a stretch, personally.) They don't really seem to know what it takes to go on extended winning streaks or face adversity particularly well. Those and other intangibles are what this club seems to lack (besides the depth issues). That's not going to change over night by simply putting a different person behind the bench. We've seen an immediate boost in energy levels and concentration but for it to be sustained they'll need to buy into what Boudreau will be teaching them, have faith in that system and really mature as a team.

At the end of the day, I not entirely confident that Boudreau can right the ship and get them to play at a playoff team's level the rest of the way. That's no slight to Boudreau per se, just that this team isn't put together particularly well to be really competitive right now. Either way, Hanlon had run out of answers. Boudreau at least offers new approaches, methods and a more confident voice behind the bench. I wish him well.
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Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
I'm of the opinion its going to take a lot longer than a few weeks for this team to be a complete reflection of BB. While he does know many of these players, he knows them as the "Stars" he treated them like in the AHL. He still needs time to evaluate his team, develop his plan for this team, and then mold them into his vision.

Looking at Columbus pre-Hitch 06-07 and post-Hitch 06-07, there's not much to see by record. But obviously that time in 06-07 paid dividends for that team this year.
Unfortunately this team doesn't have the luxury of a long breakin period. If BB wants to keep his job....IMO he needs to have this team playing like a team that can squeeze into the 8th spot over the length of an entire season.

You know Leonsis wants to raise ticket prices this offseason with the increase in salary from the free agent pickups and the impending raises due to Semin, Ovechkin and a few others.

Unless this team does a 180, Ted can't do that and hope to increase season ticket sales. This team needs to perform like they're capable of NOW.....not in January.

I'm tired of hearing about "tough Eastern Conf teams", and "we ran into a hot team". Those are excuses coming from the same people that wanted Hanlon's head on a platter all season. I'm not buying it.....it's hypocritical to say the least.


I'm not at all hating on BB at all, and I've really like what I've seen from him so far. However, I have expectations that I think are in line with what Leonsis expects. The time for excuses is over....it's time to put up or shut up.

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11-30-2007, 01:04 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
I smell your credibility going down the drain...I mean come on. He's a gutless puke of a quitter with less heart than Santana Moss.

He embodies everything wrong in today's prima donna pro athlete.
Moss has no heart come on, he is just not being used right. He was great pre-gibbs II. Why was Jagr only a quitter here, and liked and successful elsewhere? Cassidy made it happen by having no idea how to coach someone of his caliber. GMGM is to also blame for letting Butch/Jagr destroy our team.

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11-30-2007, 01:39 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Moss has no heart come on, he is just not being used right. He was great pre-gibbs II. Why was Jagr only a quitter here, and liked and successful elsewhere? Cassidy made it happen by having no idea how to coach someone of his caliber. GMGM is to also blame for letting Butch/Jagr destroy our team.
Cassidy didn't make Jagr a quitter, he was born with that.

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11-30-2007, 03:15 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
Cassidy didn't make Jagr a quitter, he was born with that.
maybe so but jagr came from pittsburgh where he was great, came here and sucked and had a feud with a coach and quit on him, moved on to the ny rangers where he is again very good.

cassidy came to the capitals from the IHL or AHL, had a feud with a star player, was fired and was recently fired from an OHL team

i am not defending jagr but what is the common denominator

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11-30-2007, 04:28 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by mshlchmps05 View Post
maybe so but jagr came from pittsburgh where he was great, came here and sucked and had a feud with a coach and quit on him, moved on to the ny rangers where he is again very good.
cassidy came to the capitals from the IHL or AHL, had a feud with a star player, was fired and was recently fired from an OHL team

i am not defending jagr but what is the common denominator


So...what you're saying is that he's eventually quit on the only other two teams he's played so far in his career....right? Will things get messy when the Rangers don't offer him $8mill + on a new contract??

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11-30-2007, 08:10 AM
  #258
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Cassidy was much worse for the team that Jagr was, yet Jagr is the punching bag. Jagr, who didn't "try" when he played for us, somehow averaged a point for game year after year. Imagine if we had a coach that knew how to get the most out of him, not stop him being the best offensive player in the league, to play solid caps defense instead.

We somehow got the best player in the league, yet Cassidy tried to make him play like Kelly Miller or Glen Currie. Jagr tried to get him fired and he succeded. Jagr is no quitter, he just knows a dumb minor league coach when he sees one. GMGM was to slow to fix it.

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11-30-2007, 09:27 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Cassidy was much worse for the team that Jagr was, yet Jagr is the punching bag. Jagr, who didn't "try" when he played for us, somehow averaged a point for game year after year. Imagine if we had a coach that knew how to get the most out of him, not stop him being the best offensive player in the league, to play solid caps defense instead.

We somehow got the best player in the league, yet Cassidy tried to make him play like Kelly Miller or Glen Currie. Jagr tried to get him fired and he succeded. Jagr is no quitter, he just knows a dumb minor league coach when he sees one. GMGM was to slow to fix it.

oh jebus man, come on!?

its a borderline certifiable fact he's a quitter. do you recall his "dying alive" while in pittsburgh? how many coaches did his "personality" chew up and spit out while there?

project B was an awful move by makfi, theres no question there, but his issue and jagr's are, almost, totally seperate.

he pouted his way out of pittsburgh, then pouted, sulked, and half azzed his way out of here so he could go where he wanted to all along, the rangers.

every team has attempted to coddle to his various whims and desires, here with the lang and kippy skippy, the rangers with their czech brigade, etc. he's only happy now cause they are winning a little, his the big fish in a big pond, and he's getting his way, or so it would appear.

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11-30-2007, 09:34 AM
  #260
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my take...

saying Jagr isnt a quitter is, IMO, just trying to be argumentitive....he outright says it. I dont care how much you hate your coach you dont give up on your team


Mgmnt made possibly the biggest blunder in bringing in Cassidy to that troubled locker room....it had zero chance in working looking back on it.

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11-30-2007, 10:30 AM
  #261
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OK my final answer. I just think Cassidy ruined any chance we had to get us a cup in the Jagr era. If Jagr was such a toxin, how was he basically the undisputed best offensive player then - and why was I so optimistic of him coming here? I was not alone in my optimism. GMGM must take even more blame for bringing in a known quitter and a nobody coach.

It's all spilled milk, but since we are looking for a permanent coach, it needs to be said that a rookie nobody coach helped ruin a great chance for a cup for a stacked team. Cassidy was a poison for this team, despite differing feelings on Jags.

Peace!

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11-30-2007, 10:47 AM
  #262
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Jagr is just handsdown.. a coach "killer".. end of story.

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11-30-2007, 11:08 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Moss has no heart come on, he is just not being used right. He was great pre-gibbs II. Why was Jagr only a quitter here, and liked and successful elsewhere? Cassidy made it happen by having no idea how to coach someone of his caliber. GMGM is to also blame for letting Butch/Jagr destroy our team.
Since GMGM is widely known to have been against getting Jagr in the first place and that its also known to some extent that McPhee's choice for coach was Hanlon and Ted's choice was Cassidy, I think its a stretch to blame McPhee.

Butch destroyed the moral of most of the long time Caps, Johansson, Konowalchuk, Bondra, Witt.

Witt's comments on the Jagr issue speak volumes about what was going on with 68. He wanted to be a star and in Washington was just a hockey player. He was not interested in the Capitals almost from the get go. He had quit before Ron Wilson was gone.

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11-30-2007, 11:28 AM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Since GMGM is widely known to have been against getting Jagr in the first place and that its also known to some extent that McPhee's choice for coach was Hanlon and Ted's choice was Cassidy, I think its a stretch to blame McPhee.

Butch destroyed the moral of most of the long time Caps, Johansson, Konowalchuk, Bondra, Witt.

Witt's comments on the Jagr issue speak volumes about what was going on with 68. He wanted to be a star and in Washington was just a hockey player. He was not interested in the Capitals almost from the get go. He had quit before Ron Wilson was gone.


txpd is spot on here.

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11-30-2007, 11:29 AM
  #265
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Jagr's direct quote is basically "I gave up in Washington"

it doesn't get much more clear than that

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11-30-2007, 12:18 PM
  #266
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The time for excuses is over....it's time to put up or shut up.
If that's Leonsis' mindset then I would expect McPhee to be fired sometime over the course of the season. Then Leonsis can bring in a new front office and have that promise of new blood to sell to STHs and prospective fans, including some modest player movement over the course of the offseason. (Call it 'Change is Coming: Front Office Edition!')

Otherwise, I don't see things quickly turning around to the point you're expecting. Injuries aside, I don't see this team putting together streaks in the immediate future where they look like pretenders. It's going to take a really big spike in their collective consistency and intensity to reach that playing level...and that takes time to fully establish.

You can call us hypocrites if you want but I think some of us just realize that this isn't that good of a team right now (at least, not on a consistent basis). Hanlon had lost the team...and that's simply unacceptable. He had to go. But so long as Boudreau is doing some positive things with the club and getting them closer to being a more consistent and disciplined team then he'll meet my expectations. I don't think we should expect an instantaneous turnaround under Boudreau. Even if they'd brought in a coach like Hartley, I would not expect an instant turnaround. There are just too many fundamental problems for a quick fix to be able to turn everything around at the drop of a hat. The gap in games next week should provide a good opportunity for the players to soak in what Boudreau is trying to get them to implement.

Whether or not modest improvement is good enough for Boudreau and McPhee to keep their jobs (or good enough for STHs) is another question. We'll find out just how patient Leonsis is and whether or not he'll continue to buy into McPhee's s l o w rebuild approach. From a financial perspective, you could very well be correct that his patience is being worn thin and that something has to give to allow for continued growth.

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11-30-2007, 12:43 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Since GMGM is widely known to have been against getting Jagr in the first place and that its also known to some extent that McPhee's choice for coach was Hanlon and Ted's choice was Cassidy, I think its a stretch to blame McPhee.

Butch destroyed the moral of most of the long time Caps, Johansson, Konowalchuk, Bondra, Witt.

Witt's comments on the Jagr issue speak volumes about what was going on with 68. He wanted to be a star and in Washington was just a hockey player. He was not interested in the Capitals almost from the get go. He had quit before Ron Wilson was gone.
this is true, however, makfi had built a house of cards prior to jarg's arrival.

project B was the breeze that blew it down.

the lockerroom was, and had been, coming apart before jagr even crossed ted's mind.

enter yaromeer ---- that melt down just got accelerated

project B hits the scene, the final nail.

but, at the end of the day, it was makfi's legos, his creation.

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11-30-2007, 02:09 PM
  #268
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this is true, however, makfi had built a house of cards prior to jarg's arrival.

project B was the breeze that blew it down.

the lockerroom was, and had been, coming apart before jagr even crossed ted's mind.

enter yaromeer ---- that melt down just got accelerated

project B hits the scene, the final nail.

but, at the end of the day, it was makfi's legos, his creation.
01-02 Dmen and ages

Gonchar - 27
Klee - 30
Cote - 36
Kucera - 34
Witt - 27
Reekie - 37
Calle - 35 (out almost all season)

02-03 was worse. Everyone's a year older. Cote's bought out, Kucera's back in the Czech Republic, Reekie's retired and they're replaced with Doig, Kiwi, Alex Henry, Fortin, Berry, and Eminger.

House of cards indeed.

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11-30-2007, 02:24 PM
  #269
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If that's Leonsis' mindset then I would expect McPhee to be fired sometime over the course of the season. Then Leonsis can bring in a new front office and have that promise of new blood to sell to STHs and prospective fans, including some modest player movement over the course of the offseason. (Call it 'Change is Coming: Front Office Edition!')

Otherwise, I don't see things quickly turning around to the point you're expecting. Injuries aside, I don't see this team putting together streaks in the immediate future where they look like pretenders. It's going to take a really big spike in their collective consistency and intensity to reach that playing level...and that takes time to fully establish.

You can call us hypocrites if you want but I think some of us just realize that this isn't that good of a team right now (at least, not on a consistent basis). Hanlon had lost the team...and that's simply unacceptable. He had to go. But so long as Boudreau is doing some positive things with the club and getting them closer to being a more consistent and disciplined team then he'll meet my expectations. I don't think we should expect an instantaneous turnaround under Boudreau. Even if they'd brought in a coach like Hartley, I would not expect an instant turnaround. There are just too many fundamental problems for a quick fix to be able to turn everything around at the drop of a hat. The gap in games next week should provide a good opportunity for the players to soak in what Boudreau is trying to get them to implement.

Whether or not modest improvement is good enough for Boudreau and McPhee to keep their jobs (or good enough for STHs) is another question. We'll find out just how patient Leonsis is and whether or not he'll continue to buy into McPhee's s l o w rebuild approach. From a financial perspective, you could very well be correct that his patience is being worn thin and that something has to give to allow for continued growth.

There are already reports that Leonsis is sniffing around for another GM. Not sure a move with McPhee is done during the season unless the team continues in last place in the league. Remember you have to find someone who is willing to come into this crapstorm midseason.

I find the attitudes of those who were screaming for Hanlon's head amusing thats all. All of the sudden it's now OK to suck because BB is "the new guy".

Sorry...but it's not enough to see "some good things" from the BB edition of the Caps. Winning is acceptable, nothing less. I've NEVER contended that this was a playoff team THIS year, so did you stumble onto a new "realization" or something with regards to their overall potential vs. what was expected under Hanlon? Have you significantly lowered your expectations for the team now?

They have the talent to play a lot better than cellar dwellers. Someone can get them to realize that potential. BB has the rest of the season to make them play at better than a .500 pace. If he can't, it's clear to me that he's not the right guy for the job.


Last edited by CapitalsCupFantasy: 11-30-2007 at 03:19 PM.
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11-30-2007, 02:30 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
01-02 Dmen and ages

Gonchar - 27
Klee - 30
Cote - 36
Kucera - 34
Witt - 27
Reekie - 37
Calle - 35 (out almost all season)

02-03 was worse. Everyone's a year older. Cote's bought out, Kucera's back in the Czech Republic, Reekie's retired and they're replaced with Doig, Kiwi, Alex Henry, Fortin, Berry, and Eminger.

House of cards indeed.
bone dry, built on sand.

a house of cards that will never stand.

the doors crash open and the flood comes in, and the flood takes everything....


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11-30-2007, 02:53 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post

02-03 was worse. Everyone's a year older. Cote's bought out, Kucera's back in the CzecRepublic, Reekie's retired and they're replaced with Doig, Kiwi, Alex Henry, Fortin, Berry, and Eminger.

House of cards indeed.


/shudder....that's a lot of poop.

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11-30-2007, 04:16 PM
  #272
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I find the attitudes of those who were screaming for Hanlon's head amusing thats all. All of the sudden it's now OK to suck because BB is "the new guy".

Sorry...but it's not enough to see "some good things" from the BB edition of the Caps. Winning is acceptable, nothing less. I've NEVER contended that this was a playoff team THIS year, so did you stumble onto a new "realization" or something with regards to their overall potential vs. what was expected under Hanlon? Have you significantly lowered your expectations for the team now?

They have the talent to play a lot better than cellar dwellers. Someone can get them to realize that potential. BB has the rest of the season to make them play at better than a .500 pace. If he can't, it's clear to me that he's not the right guy for the job.
no its not OK to suck now, i agree with you there, but we also have to allow a period of adjustment, meaning don't can him if he loses the next 3 or four games. like you said, give him the rest of the season if he doesn't get it done, get rid of him. FWIW 2-1-1 is not bad so far, so there really is no reason to be doubting him, yet.

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11-30-2007, 04:39 PM
  #273
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I don't know how people can blame GMGM or Cassidy for Jagirl giving up on the team. It's the players choice to play hard or not. I'm pretty sure GMGM didn't stick a gun to Jagirl's head and say "don't play hard tonite."

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11-30-2007, 07:06 PM
  #274
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I find the attitudes of those who were screaming for Hanlon's head amusing thats all. All of the sudden it's now OK to suck because BB is "the new guy".
Of course, no one is actually saying that (and who was screaming anyway?). My point is that one should expect a learning curve among the players in implementing the changes that Boudreau wants. This team struggles to execute offensively (to say the least), so I don't find it realistic to expect a sudden sea change. It's more likely to be incremental.
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Have you significantly lowered your expectations for the team now?
From the pre-season? That depends on your definition of significant. It's definitely been lowered. I never imagined that they'd struggle so much offensively. There's still ample opportunity for them to mature and rebound but the lack of depth and experience is likely to remain an issue. A poor start can have a lingering effect, particularly for a pretty young club that doesn't have a great track record of winning consistently. Semin playing at last years' level would certainly help things. Either way, I have a lot more confidence in Boudreau getting them to fire on all cylinders than Hanlon.

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