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St. Louis Blues/Central Division

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Old
12-03-2007, 12:13 PM
  #26
dru
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St. Louis is playing really good right now. The youth movement in the central is going to lead to a lot of parody this season. I still think Detroit's goaltending is suspect so don't be surprised if the Wings aren't top dogs this year.

The central will have 3 teams in playoffs by years end.

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12-03-2007, 12:23 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by SneakerPimp82 View Post
I'm bitter? Wow, the pot calling the kettle black. I can just as easily say you're bitter for losing consistently to lower seeded teams in the playoffs. Oh wait, I just did.
lol, I saw that response coming up 86th street.

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Old
12-03-2007, 12:34 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by not dominator View Post
The only problem with that is when you drop the Blackhawks out of it the record against drops to 4-2-1, still better than the rest of the league really but not as impressive.
Well gosh ... drop the Blues out and it's 3-1-1 in the division. Drop the Central out completely and the Wings are 14-1-0.

There's 32 games to be played in the division. The fact that Detroit is 4-5-2 through the first 11 isn't very impressive in and of itself.


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lol, I saw that response coming up 86th street.
All right - enough of the pissing match on both sides. Discuss this year, not years past - and do it without trolling on one another.

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Old
12-03-2007, 12:36 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by SneakerPimp82 View Post
No one's saying that the Wings aren't the best team in the Central, but with that .898 save percentage and a fairly soft roster, they'll probably get over 100 points again, but will most likely continue their playoff failures.

Ask any owner in the NHL and they'll happily take the Wings playoff failures. This organization has the best playoff appearance record in all of the major sports. We fans may think that winning the Cup is the only measure of success, but the owners seem to include playoff appearances as something pretty critical in their definition. That's where the money comes from, and for most teams is the only difference between a profitable year or more losses.

And even if we use your metric for success - playoff rounds achieved - how many teams have consistently performed better than the Wings?

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Old
12-03-2007, 12:38 PM
  #30
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Nashville had a rough patch during a 6 game losing streak, since then, they've really turned it around.

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Old
12-03-2007, 12:40 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Ask any owner in the NHL and they'll happily take the Wings playoff failures. This organization has the best playoff appearance record in all of the major sports. We fans may think that winning the Cup is the only measure of success, but the owners seem to include playoff appearances as something pretty critical in their definition. That's where the money comes from, and for most teams is the only difference between a profitable year or more losses.

And even if we use your metric for success - playoff rounds achieved - how many teams have consistently performed better than the Wings?
Okay, my mistake. RECENT playoff failures.

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Old
12-03-2007, 12:42 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakin View Post
lol, I saw that response coming up 86th street.
Hehe, because your "Cup run" response wasn't coming up Main Street either, right.

Sorry IB, just getting my last word in. I'll drop it.

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Old
12-03-2007, 12:45 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SneakerPimp82 View Post
Okay, my mistake. RECENT playoff failures.

You still miss the overarching point. In fact, they were written off by every expert in the hockey world after the lockout. They weren't going to buy their championship teams anymore, and so on... Yet somehow they are still considered a top contender every year. The other teams seem to rotate in and out of the equation. The next excuse was that the Central was weak, and last year they went through some of the toughest (and biggest) teams in the NHL. They lost to the subsequent Cup champion in a very close playoff series.

You don't want to accept that your definition makes 29 of 30 teams a FAILURE every year. How many teams failed more miserably than the Wings even last year? 26. Or just as miserably? Add another and include the Wings to get to 28 of 30 teams. Two were left, and one went down in flames. I don't see how you call that a failure?

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Old
12-03-2007, 12:46 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
Well gosh ... drop the Blues out and it's 3-1-1 in the division. Drop the Central out completely and the Wings are 14-1-0.

There's 32 games to be played in the division. The fact that Detroit is 4-5-2 through the first 11 isn't very impressive in and of itself.
If its not impressive then why did you bring it up? The statistics itself is impressive, however I just pointed out that it was slightly skewed because of the Blackhawks early success. St. Louis and Nashville have only played 2 games each against the Wings and those games will be big indicators of how the division looks at the end of the year.

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12-03-2007, 12:49 PM
  #35
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Nashville had a rough patch during a 6 game losing streak, since then, they've really turned it around.
Yep, the Predators are 6-2-2 in their last 10. The thing is Chicago has gone 5-3-2 in their last 10. And St. Louis has actually been pulling away going 8-1-1 in their last 10. As good as Nashville has played they just aren't gaining much ground.

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Originally Posted by dru View Post
St. Louis is playing really good right now. The youth movement in the central is going to lead to a lot of parody this season. I still think Detroit's goaltending is suspect so don't be surprised if the Wings aren't top dogs this year.

The central will have 3 teams in playoffs by years end.
Suspect goaltending? Hasek has struggled, no doubt. But he always starts seasons slowly and he's got several months to work things out. Ozzie meanwhile has played very well. Osgood is not a Vezina contender, but he's playing better than any point in his career and has been more than adequate. Nashville is the team in the division with suspect goaltending.

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Old
12-03-2007, 12:53 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by not dominator View Post
If its not impressive then why did you bring it up? The statistics itself is impressive, however I just pointed out that it was slightly skewed because of the Blackhawks early success. St. Louis and Nashville have only played 2 games each against the Wings and those games will be big indicators of how the division looks at the end of the year.

If you're a Wings fan that has watched the Wings games closely over the past few years, you have to admit that the Central teams are playing much better against the Wings this year. They clearly are MUCH better. The improvement is so obvious there's no point in denying it-- and why would we? It's better hockey all the way around. I'm entertained.... I love the seeing some of their youngsters developing. It's okay.

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Old
12-03-2007, 12:56 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dru View Post
St. Louis is playing really good right now. The youth movement in the central is going to lead to a lot of parody this season. I still think Detroit's goaltending is suspect so don't be surprised if the Wings aren't top dogs this year.

The central will have 3 teams in playoffs by years end.
People have been saying that for years...although the regular season means diddly poo, especially for the Wings, but they have been pretty much on top of the Central for a long time, except for that one year, when Pleau threw a lot of money around or Pronger decided not to take dumb penalties or something, but IIRC, the Blues went out in the 1st round that year...

I think 29/30 teams are disappointed at the end of the season, but I could see St. Louis and Chicago making it to the PO this year, and I wouldn't mind Columbus getting in, but I like Chicago's chances better, and they've been killing the Wings this year, so they can pick a lot of points from them.

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Old
12-03-2007, 12:59 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
You still miss the overarching point. In fact, they were written off by every expert in the hockey world after the lockout. They weren't going to buy their championship teams anymore, and so on... Yet somehow they are still considered a top contender every year. The other teams seem to rotate in and out of the equation. The next excuse was that the Central was weak, and last year they went through some of the toughest (and biggest) teams in the NHL. They lost to the subsequent Cup champion in a very close playoff series.

You don't want to accept that your definition makes 29 of 30 teams a FAILURE every year. How many teams failed more miserably than the Wings even last year? 26. Or just as miserably? Add another and include the Wings to get to 28 of 30 teams. Two were left, and one went down in flames. I don't see how you call that a failure?
thank you

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Old
12-03-2007, 01:34 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not dominator View Post
If its not impressive then why did you bring it up?
Probably because it was in response to
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Originally Posted by SneakerPimp82 View Post
... With almost 1/3 of the season gone, I think it's time that someone pointed this out and that the Central is more than just the Red Wings.
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Originally Posted by freakin View Post
It's still just the Red Wings. sorry.
Of course, if you go back to see what I was responding to in the first place, you'd notice that.


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Originally Posted by guinness View Post
People have been saying that for years...although the regular season means diddly poo, especially for the Wings, but they have been pretty much on top of the Central for a long time, except for that one year, when Pleau threw a lot of money around or Pronger decided not to take dumb penalties or something, but If I recall correctly, the Blues went out in the 1st round that year...
It was most definitely not when the Blues were throwing around money. It might have been that season where Pronger won the Hart and Norris Trophy.

And yes ... the Blues did go out in the 1st round that year. Demitra didn't play after getting boarded by Holzinger in Tampa in March, and then Turek had a meltdown for the ages vs. San Jose coupled with bizarre goals like Bergevin grabbing the puck and throwing it into his own net. It was also the only year between 1997 and 2002 that the Blues didn't lose to the eventual Stanley Cup champions.

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Old
12-03-2007, 01:44 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
You still miss the overarching point. In fact, they were written off by every expert in the hockey world after the lockout. They weren't going to buy their championship teams anymore, and so on... Yet somehow they are still considered a top contender every year. The other teams seem to rotate in and out of the equation. The next excuse was that the Central was weak, and last year they went through some of the toughest (and biggest) teams in the NHL. They lost to the subsequent Cup champion in a very close playoff series.

You don't want to accept that your definition makes 29 of 30 teams a FAILURE every year. How many teams failed more miserably than the Wings even last year? 26. Or just as miserably? Add another and include the Wings to get to 28 of 30 teams. Two were left, and one went down in flames. I don't see how you call that a failure?
Okay I'll state my point more clearly. With the talent on that team and their regular season domination of the Western conference in recent years, the Wings' playoff results have been nothing short of utter failure. Yes, every team that doesn't win the Cup is technically a playoff failure. But again, the Wings have been much better positioned to win the Cup due to their talent and "top contender" status.

Again, the very fact that a top contender for the Cup consistently loses in the 1st round is utter failure. They continuously have achieved the same result as the 03-04 Blues team(1st round playoff loss), which obviously was not a top contender for the Cup that year. So yes, the Wings failed more miserably simply because the expectations for the Wings team is higher.

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Old
12-03-2007, 02:14 PM
  #41
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First round loss in 4 of the last 5 years in the "Cup hunt," seems a bit underwhelming to me.
Try first round loss in 2 of the last 5 years.
How about you get your facts straight before spew **** out.

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Old
12-03-2007, 02:14 PM
  #42
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St Louis has a most unfair advantage in having Brewer control the pace of the game for 40 minutes a night from the Blue's back end. Without him they'd be looking for their third win of the season still.

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12-03-2007, 02:30 PM
  #43
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The Blues defensively look great. I'm just not sure if they can keep it up all season (we'll see). Murray's teams have tended to go real cold down the stretch (at least in LA, he hasn't had a full season in St Louis)

Two things are going against them:

(1) Kariya and Ktachuk seem to get hurt every year.

(2) Weight is done as dinner, and the PP isn't converting


We'll see what happens. A couple of teams in the Central have to slow down at some point. I dont' think fans of Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus or Nashville have any claim their team is above any other.

-fullmetalninja

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Old
12-03-2007, 02:35 PM
  #44
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Very good job by JD and staff. The Bluse are a nice team.

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Old
12-03-2007, 02:37 PM
  #45
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I think the Blues made the best offseason moves of any NHL team

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Old
12-03-2007, 03:31 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
St Louis has a most unfair advantage in having Brewer control the pace of the game for 40 minutes a night from the Blue's back end. Without him they'd be looking for their third win of the season still.
Lol. You derserve an HF board award for always staying in character. I needed that laugh today.

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Old
12-03-2007, 03:34 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zetterberg View Post
This is how the Central Division will end at the End of the Year

1. Detroit
2. Nashville
3. Chicago
4. St. Louis
5. Columbus
Awesome. While you're at it, can you please give me the winning numbers for this week's lottery jackpot?

Christ on a stick...

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12-03-2007, 03:35 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by SneakerPimp82 View Post
No one's saying that the Wings aren't the best team in the Central, but with that .898 save percentage and a fairly soft roster, they'll probably get over 100 points again, but will most likely continue their playoff failures.
The Red Wings are carrying nearly the same team as last year (minus Bertuzzi, Markov, Lang, and Schneider), and you can hardly call last year's playoff performance a "failure." If you ask me, a trip to the Western Conference final is something to write home about, and surely more than your average team can brag about.

As for that .898 save percentage, that belongs to Hasek, who if you haven't noticed has currently been handed the role of our backup goalie, at least temporarily. On the other hand, our current "starter," Mr. Osgood, is currently leading the league in save percentage, and isn't far behind in wins either.

Lastly, our soft roster isn't as soft as some of our opponents seem to want to believe it is. With the addition of Aaron Downey as an enforcer, and Kronwall, Holmstrom, Lilja, Franzen and others not afraid to rough it up, I wouldn't be so sure of yourself. We're far from a physical force, but you can hardly call us "soft."

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Old
12-03-2007, 03:56 PM
  #49
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the blues have a top 3 defensive unit in the league.

and have to sit 2 nhl regulars..one would make atleast half the teams in the league the other whomever they sit would make almost all the teams in the NHL.


its pretty unfair when your 2nd and 3rd lines have to go against Jay Mckee, Salvador, or Eric Brewer pending on the combos that night

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Old
12-03-2007, 05:35 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by fullmetalninja View Post
The Blues defensively look great. I'm just not sure if they can keep it up all season (we'll see). Murray's teams have tended to go real cold down the stretch (at least in LA, he hasn't had a full season in St Louis)

Two things are going against them:

(1) Kariya and Ktachuk seem to get hurt every year.

(2) Weight is done as dinner, and the PP isn't converting


We'll see what happens. A couple of teams in the Central have to slow down at some point. I dont' think fans of Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus or Nashville have any claim their team is above any other.

-fullmetalninja
When was the last time Kariya was hurt? He stayed healthy in Nashville.

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