HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > St. Louis Blues
Notices

Sweden to Vote on opting out of IIHA Transfer Agreement

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-27-2007, 04:01 PM
  #1
Mike6749
Registered User
 
Mike6749's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 359
vCash: 500
Sweden to Vote on opting out of IIHA Transfer Agreement

According to Bill Meltzer at Hockeybuzz, Sweden will vote on whether they will opt out of the IIHA Transfer Agreement. IB, what does this mean for our Swedish prospects?

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=11399

Mike6749 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2007, 04:34 PM
  #2
Robb_K
Registered User
 
Robb_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NordHolandNethrlands
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,562
vCash: 500
I was always under the impression that if they opt out of signing the agreement with The NHL, they could negotiate a different agreement with The NHL (i.e. with a longer period for NHL teams to sign Swedish players.

Or has The NHL stated that they won't make different agreements with different countries?

If The NHL lets Sweden go without an agreement,-it will be a regressive move. They need to get The Russians in the fold, not have 2 major hockey nations on the outside.

Robb_K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2007, 04:37 PM
  #3
Mike6749
Registered User
 
Mike6749's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 359
vCash: 500
I think this is bad news if Sweden does opt out. It will open the door for the Czechs, the Finns, and other hockey nations to opt out as well. However, if a player truly does want to play in the NHL, they will make it. Only those of the "big fish in a small pond" mentality will stay in their respective countries. Another problem that this poses is that the AHL and ECHL may have to make its salaries more competitive to lure those international players away from their higher salaried home leagues.

Mike6749 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2007, 08:40 PM
  #4
StLooFrenchy
Registered User
 
StLooFrenchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southern Illinois
Country: France
Posts: 1,626
vCash: 500
Not to mention, if all the Euro-Block opt out, the influx of talent will certainly drive the top-end market price down, thereby forcing some of the more skilled players to tread their wares on the NA shore. Maybe.

StLooFrenchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2007, 10:55 AM
  #5
WalterSobchak
Blues Trololol
 
WalterSobchak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gutter Alley
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,743
vCash: 500
well what is sort of happening now (from what I've read in the main thread for this) is that European teams don't see the merit of developing the young players since they are very unlikely to reap the benefits of the players fruition. Being that it is not like the CHL or College leagues which have age restrictions and are for the most part "development leagues" I can't really blame them. They are competitive leagues, competing with the NHL for all intents and purposes and the one huge ruling in this new CBA that is hurting them is the "2 year signing" restriction for European players. There are a small percentage of those players who are ready or given the chance to play with the NHL team (because few of those prospects are willing to come over to play in the AHL or lower) in those 2 years and the way those European leagues and teams see the money is when they sign the prospects.

What is occuring more and more often is that the NHL teams are signing European players as they get older as free agents (which I don't think there is a transfer fee for that, just simply the player needs to not be under contract with a European team)

The 2 year window has also meant less Euro's are being drafted unless they are guaranteed higher end.

WalterSobchak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2007, 02:37 PM
  #6
Mike6749
Registered User
 
Mike6749's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 359
vCash: 500
It's official, as of January 1, 2008, Sweden will no longer honor the NHL Transfer Agreement.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=11422

I don't beleive this will affect players already signed to NHL contracts such as Berglund. However, Eller I beleive has not signed a contract with the Blues yet. IB?

Mike6749 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2007, 12:38 AM
  #7
Blue Sur
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Shyber's Pace
Country: St Lucia
Posts: 322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post

What is occuring more and more often is that the NHL teams are signing European players as they get older as free agents (which I don't think there is a transfer fee for that, just simply the player needs to not be under contract with a European team)

The 2 year window has also meant less Euro's are being drafted unless they are guaranteed higher end.
There is a fee, and to my knowledge, it's divided into a four-year time frame, i.e. all club teams a player has represented (being under contract, not loaned etc.) during the past four years are entitled to part of the fee. As transfers are so commonplace, it would be quite unjust to reward one team for having player X under contract at the time of signing his NHL deal if he's played the past years on another team. This does NOT change the amount of the transfer fee, only its division.

Blue Sur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2007, 10:16 AM
  #8
blueswede22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 58
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike6749 View Post
It's official, as of January 1, 2008, Sweden will no longer honor the NHL Transfer Agreement.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=11422

I don't beleive this will affect players already signed to NHL contracts such as Berglund. However, Eller I beleive has not signed a contract with the Blues yet. IB?

Eller is from Denmark....

blueswede22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2007, 04:35 PM
  #9
WalterSobchak
Blues Trololol
 
WalterSobchak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gutter Alley
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,743
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueswede22 View Post
Eller is from Denmark....
but he's playing in Sweden isn't he? On the flip side, Eller is probably at least 3 seasons away so as long as he hasn't signed a contract longer than that, it shouldn't be so bad. It will only be trouble if he's signed to a 1 year contract and will need to renegotiate before coming to the NHL.

Then couldn't the Blues sign him and lend him to some team in the SEL?

WalterSobchak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2007, 09:28 AM
  #10
Tobias
Registered User
 
Tobias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Country: Denmark
Posts: 1,514
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to Tobias
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
but he's playing in Sweden isn't he?
Yes he is.

Tobias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2007, 10:23 AM
  #11
Irish Blues
____________________
 
Irish Blues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country: St Helena
Posts: 21,804
vCash: 91
Eller has not signed with the Blues, and I have no idea what his contract status is in Sweden.

The net effect of opting out is that Sweden can demand that players signed to contracts honor them in their entirety before signing elsewhere [and thus sign younger players to multi-year contracts that keeps them in Sweden beyond age 20]; the flip side is that players who have dreams of playing in the NHL could jump to NA once their contract expires and Sweden gets nothing in return, and could start leaving for North America to play in major juniors at an earlier age knowing they may not see the NHL before age 23 or 24 otherwise.

How this applies to guys currently signed to NHL contracts, I have no idea.

There's risk involved both ways. It'll be interesting to see how other countries respond - but obviously Sweden is the biggest player in this.

__________________
No promises this time.
Irish Blues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2007, 11:08 AM
  #12
WalterSobchak
Blues Trololol
 
WalterSobchak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gutter Alley
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,743
vCash: 500
IB- Could the Blues sign Eller when his Swedish contract lapses and then loan him back to the same Swedish club...with the expectation that the Swedish leagues would allow that.

Also does Berglund have a contract with his Swedish club or is he just signed with the Blues and is being loaned to his previous club?

I figure that would be the best way to circumvent this problem, if clubs are willing to sign the player once he becomes a free agent. At draft time there may be some really good Swedish players not drafted simply because they are signed in Sweden to a 3 year contract, thus making it impossible for an NHL team to negotiate until the Swedish contract has expired.

I don't think Bettmen will allow any NHL teams to negotiate with other leagues if he has the power to stop it. Its in the NHLs best interest for there to be a universal agreement than have it vary from team to team because the richer teams will have the advantage.

WalterSobchak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2007, 11:57 AM
  #13
Irish Blues
____________________
 
Irish Blues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country: St Helena
Posts: 21,804
vCash: 91
I know Berglund has a contract with Vasteras - I'd have to dig to find the details on it.

Eller could be loaned back, but there's the chance his current team would try to tie him down with a multi-year deal in order to come back and thus handcuff the Blues; more than likely, I'd imagine we'd assign him to the AHL after signing him and after Sweden went nuts the NHL would point to the lack of a transfer agreement and say, "hey - sorry, you don't have him under contract and we do, so you have no right to claim his rights when he doesn't make the NHL roster ... and you're not getting anything in return."




This is yet another one of those times where I wish I had a copy of the transfer agreement and/or the league by-laws.

Irish Blues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2007, 09:29 AM
  #14
Prussian_Blue
Registered User
 
Prussian_Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Country: Germany
Posts: 7,753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
I know Berglund has a contract with Vasteras - I'd have to dig to find the details on it.

Eller could be loaned back, but there's the chance his current team would try to tie him down with a multi-year deal in order to come back and thus handcuff the Blues; more than likely, I'd imagine we'd assign him to the AHL after signing him and after Sweden went nuts the NHL would point to the lack of a transfer agreement and say, "hey - sorry, you don't have him under contract and we do, so you have no right to claim his rights when he doesn't make the NHL roster ... and you're not getting anything in return."

This is yet another one of those times where I wish I had a copy of the transfer agreement and/or the league by-laws.
And, if I understand the rules correctly, a player drafted out of a European junior league (as Eller was) can play in the AHL before age 20... so the Blues do have the option to sign Eller, and Hjalmarsson for that matter (since he was drafted out of the same junior league that Eller was; the same team, even), and assign them to Peoria next year.

I can, however, certainly see the Swedes' point about wanting more compensation from the NHL for their role in (indirectly) developing players for the individual NHL teams, and their desire to keep their brightest young stars at home for as long as possible.

Resolving this situation will require honest and up-front negotiation on both sides, and the resolution of l'affaire Sverige will certainly set a recedent for how the other European hockey powers handle their players' relationships with the home federation and the NHL.

P_B


Prussian_Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2007, 11:02 AM
  #15
WalterSobchak
Blues Trololol
 
WalterSobchak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gutter Alley
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,743
vCash: 500
I've spent alot of time arguing this in the business section but if we are talking compensation it needs to be on level with what the CHL and NCAA get from the NHL in compensation.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that is nothing.

The European fans I've dealt with in that other thread adamantly do not want the European clubs (because they refuse to address it as a league-league issue, it is a IIHA club-NHL club issue alone in their eyes) thought of as a "developmental" league for the NHL. It is a competing league. Their perfect comparison are the various football leagues and the transfering that occurs with football players between clubs and the millions that the clubs receive for the trades.

At this point I'd prefer a cap on drafting age of European based prospects. Don't allow drafting of those players until they are 20. Return the prospect rights retention to 4 years for European players (the situation isn't perfect but that seems to be the big rub the Swede's aren't happy with. They want to either have the players for longer or be compensated for the players in some way (mostly both)

WalterSobchak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2007, 04:06 PM
  #16
Robb_K
Registered User
 
Robb_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NordHolandNethrlands
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
I've spent alot of time arguing this in the business section but if we are talking compensation it needs to be on level with what the CHL and NCAA get from the NHL in compensation.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that is nothing.

The European fans I've dealt with in that other thread adamantly do not want the European clubs (because they refuse to address it as a league-league issue, it is a IIHA club-NHL club issue alone in their eyes) thought of as a "developmental" league for the NHL. It is a competing league. Their perfect comparison are the various football leagues and the transfering that occurs with football players between clubs and the millions that the clubs receive for the trades.

At this point I'd prefer a cap on drafting age of European based prospects. Don't allow drafting of those players until they are 20. Return the prospect rights retention to 4 years for European players (the situation isn't perfect but that seems to be the big rub the Swede's aren't happy with. They want to either have the players for longer or be compensated for the players in some way (mostly both)
I agree with Zaphod. Returning to the 4 -year window is a must, and not allowing Swedes to be drafted until age 20 would solve a lot of the problem. If there is some transfer fee above that that both parties could agree upon, I wouldn't have a problem. An absence of fees would also be fine with me, if The Swedes would agree.

Robb_K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2007, 05:00 PM
  #17
Irish Blues
____________________
 
Irish Blues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country: St Helena
Posts: 21,804
vCash: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
I've spent alot of time arguing this in the business section but if we are talking compensation it needs to be on level with what the CHL and NCAA get from the NHL in compensation.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that is nothing.
Obviously, the NCAA gets nothing [or gets damn little] - there's also the fact that once a player signs a pro contract, he instantly loses all of his NCAA eligibility. The CHL may get something from the NHL, but they at least have the guarantee that, if a player signs and doesn't crack the NHL roster, he must be returned to his junior team.

Europe? They have no guarantee that a player who doesn't crack the NHL roster gets sent back b/c they may not even be under contract to their team at age 18 or 19 - hence, if the player is under contract, there's a payment to the country federation. How much should that be? That's certainly open to debate - should it be on a per-player basis or should it be a flat payment per year for all players coming over that year?

Irish Blues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2007, 08:14 PM
  #18
ChicagoBlues
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
I know Berglund has a contract with Vasteras - I'd have to dig to find the details on it.

Eller could be loaned back, but there's the chance his current team would try to tie him down with a multi-year deal in order to come back and thus handcuff the Blues; more than likely, I'd imagine we'd assign him to the AHL after signing him and after Sweden went nuts the NHL would point to the lack of a transfer agreement and say, "hey - sorry, you don't have him under contract and we do, so you have no right to claim his rights when he doesn't make the NHL roster ... and you're not getting anything in return."




This is yet another one of those times where I wish I had a copy of the transfer agreement and/or the league by-laws.
I was wanting the same thing dude. I like source materials instead of someone who never gives the whole story or some lame interpretive distillation. I got curious but could find no link whatsoever to the complete IIHF Player Transfer Agreement. I exchanged correspondance with the IIHF Communications Director in Switzerland, Szymon Szemberg, who said they have not and don't plan to release the entire document to the public. The official press release is following as a Word doc.


Last edited by ChicagoBlues: 03-26-2008 at 01:04 PM.
ChicagoBlues is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:15 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.