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(HF Story) Kevin Lowe Part 2

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Old
04-01-2004, 07:34 PM
  #26
Lowetide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers Chick
One thing that makes the Oilers so unique, even in this day and age is the fact that the team is built from the inside out, not the other way around. The Oilers have done a very good job, especially in recent years of developing their players, etc. I remember some of the "duds" the Oilers drafted such as Jason Bonsignore. But what I've loved about this team since day one that I've been following them (and as K-Lowe touched on a bit in the interview) is that it holds on strongly to its roots.
That was the way the Habs maintained their tradition. Most of the Sam Pollock interviews I've seen have the spirit of what you've said here. Excellent point.

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Old
04-01-2004, 09:17 PM
  #27
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Snippy, snippy

I've been right about way more things Oilers than I've been wrong. No doubt about it

I like to belabour the Salo point because there were so many people who were stupid enough to think sub .900 goaltending was acceptable.

I wasn't here before but you must be one of them or else you wouldn't care so much. Or maybe it's just you trying to tell people what to post again

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Old
04-01-2004, 09:21 PM
  #28
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Guy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming

just reread what he said and pretend that he sounds mad at the question. At first when he said "you say I played with these guys, I say I went to war with them", I thought I offended him (And I've seen two reporters do that this year and I didn't want to be one of them when he was done).
that doesn't put you in a favourable light if the time ever comes for you to be objective and really question Lowe. And looking at the special teams play this season, damn right someone should be questioning him about some of his hires.

Maybe it's not you at this point and I can't blame you but at some point you might have to ask him something and not really worry about "not wanting to be one of them when he was done."

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Old
04-01-2004, 09:34 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
I've been right about way more things Oilers than I've been wrong. No doubt about it
Congrats... I'd give you a cookie, but I'm all out.

Quote:
I like to belabour the Salo point because there were so many people who were stupid enough to think sub .900 goaltending was acceptable.

I wasn't here before but you must be one of them or else you wouldn't care so much. Or maybe it's just you trying to tell people what to post again
You have this massive inferiority complex.

LOOK AT ME OVER HERE I AM RIGHT

GUYS, SERIOUSLY, I AM OVER HERE!!!

REMEMBER THAT ONE TIME I SAID SOMETHING RIGHT????

SERIOUSLY GUYS, I AM OVER HERE!!!!!

I WAS RIGHT, I REALLY WAS

HEY, GUESS WHAT I AM DOING, I AM BRINGING UP THAT SAME OLD THING AGAIN

IS THIS HORSE DEAD YET? I CAN'T STOP BEATING IT LONG ENOUGH TO CHECK

REMEMBER, I SAID IT, I WAS RIGHT

Dude... we get it.

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Old
04-01-2004, 09:38 PM
  #30
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Not as much as the one that hinders you

when anyone disagrees with your opinion

Save your cookies to sooth your sister when she's fussy

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Old
04-01-2004, 09:40 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
that doesn't put you in a favourable light if the time ever comes for you to be objective and really question Lowe. And looking at the special teams play this season, damn right someone should be questioning him about some of his hires.

Maybe it's not you at this point and I can't blame you but at some point you might have to ask him something and not really worry about "not wanting to be one of them when he was done."
Matts...

Go interview him yourself.

That way we can all see how a true media mogul such as yourself would handle this.

Put up or shut up.

You talk all kinds of smack about how the Edmonton media is so inferior to you, yet what have you ever done? Go make a difference if you don't like how things are done.

And you really shouldn't talk about other people's work, or how other people sound... most of us have seen what you consider objective journalism, and guess what?

You sounded like a bitter old man who got snuffed out by the Oilers, and your only course of action was to write up a plethora of insults on a worthless website to get back at them.

Yeah, real objective there.

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Old
04-01-2004, 09:44 PM
  #32
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The difference is,

I eventually drop the subject.

I have a feeling that years from now I am going to stumble across a website that is going to feature a comment from you about how a long time ago you and only you had the forsight, hockey knowledge, inside information, supreme power to come to the conclusion that Lowe made a bad decision in bringing Salo back.

Can you let it go?

I doubt it.

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Old
04-01-2004, 09:54 PM
  #33
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I don't think the media is inferior to me

I think they are inferior to anyone who's objective.

There exists a relationship in Edm where the media exists for merely PR purposes.

If I had a chance to interview Lowe, I would take whatever slings and arrows would follow just as Guy is doing here

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Old
04-01-2004, 10:05 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
I think they are inferior to anyone who's objective.

There exists a relationship in Edm where the media exists for merely PR purposes.

If I had a chance to interview Lowe, I would take whatever slings and arrows would follow just as Guy is doing here
Well, I am personally glad that you don't get to interview Lowe.

I got answers in two articles that would have taken me over a year to find by looking through all the media sources available out there.

You have absolutely no clue how the media in Edmonton works do you? Just because they aren't as pissed off and bitter as you means they aren't objective?

I've seen plenty of Oiler bashing in both the Sun and the Journal (more in the former though). But because they don't cast a dark cloud over the Oilers every single day they aren't objective?

Objective means that they go with the good and the bad... you wouldn't know what the first one was if it slapped you in the face and pissed on your shoe, but you are all over the last part like Rita McNiel on a rolo.

Where is your objectivity?

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Old
04-01-2004, 11:03 PM
  #35
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I don't know

what or whom could I have been more objective about? I've said MacT is a great ES coach but that whoever runs the ST should be fired or at least have those responsibilites taken from them. I really liked the Nedved and Jussi moves and said so and praised Lowe.

Big fan of York and Smyth and Pisani. not a big fan of Cross or Isbister or Chimera. at least not of their production this year. liked the Ulanov signing. like the Oates signing and hasn't gone back on it since no matter how it's turned out

goaltending situation was a joke and viola after he was dealt lowe comes out with his quote about let's face it no one will win with a sub 900 netminding performance?

really?

I said Staios wouldn't be able to handle the minutes and he can't. I've stuck by Brewer saying he does a great job in his own end and I don't get on him for the lack of offense at times

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Old
04-02-2004, 07:15 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
If I had a chance to interview Lowe, I would take whatever slings and arrows would follow just as Guy is doing here
The fact that you are the only one slinging this board's hardest working poster should give you some pause for thought. Critical thinking is valuable, but save the crusades for another board.

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Old
04-02-2004, 08:26 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
what or whom could I have been more objective about? I've said MacT is a great ES coach but that whoever runs the ST should be fired or at least have those responsibilites taken from them. I really liked the Nedved and Jussi moves and said so and praised Lowe.

Big fan of York and Smyth and Pisani. not a big fan of Cross or Isbister or Chimera. at least not of their production this year. liked the Ulanov signing. like the Oates signing and hasn't gone back on it since no matter how it's turned out

goaltending situation was a joke and viola after he was dealt lowe comes out with his quote about let's face it no one will win with a sub 900 netminding performance?

really?

I said Staios wouldn't be able to handle the minutes and he can't. I've stuck by Brewer saying he does a great job in his own end and I don't get on him for the lack of offense at times
I agree with basically all your opinions from ST to Brewer, with the possible exception of Isbister. I think he could be decent although I think his trade value is still higher than his worth, and he still costs too much.

However, this year aside, I think the team at the end of the year is so much better than the beginning of the year, and is very solid for the future. We had three weaknesses, goaltender, defense, and center at the beginning of the year.

I think Jussi + Conks is adequate until JDD arrives.

I think Nedved went a long way to solving the center issue... Nedved, Horc, Reasoner, and Stoll, with York possibly playing center too looks pretty good to me.

And finally Lowe has done wonders for our defense. Brewer, Semenov, MAB, Woyawitka, Lynch, Greene, and Gilbert looks amazing for our future, and I think that all of these players were attained by Lowe.

As Lowe said, everything is for the post CBA, and he seems to have set things up nicely. The team is fine financially, and he has what looks to be a great team on paper, with lots of young talent, and a what could be a great defense. What's more we still have valuable tradables, since I think Rita, Salmo, Bishai and others can either play next year making someone expendable, or be traded themselves. In addition we have 2 first rounders in the upcoming draft.

The one big complaint I have with Lowe is that he waited until the deadline to dump Salo... I really believe we would not be in the situation if he would have done it earlier. Mind you, maybe he was trying, but getting no takers for Salos 4 mill salery... what do I know?

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Old
04-02-2004, 09:16 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
I've been right about way more things Oilers than I've been wrong. No doubt about it

I like to belabour the Salo point because there were so many people who were stupid enough to think sub .900 goaltending was acceptable.

I wasn't here before but you must be one of them or else you wouldn't care so much. Or maybe it's just you trying to tell people what to post again

Matts you have been wrong about a lot of trades that Lowe made (ie. The Carter and Niinima trades) and have called for Lowe's head a number of times after these trade were made.

If I remember correctly you also wanted Moreau out of town when Grier left.

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Old
04-02-2004, 10:35 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
what or whom could I have been more objective about? I've said MacT is a great ES coach but that whoever runs the ST should be fired or at least have those responsibilites taken from them. I really liked the Nedved and Jussi moves and said so and praised Lowe.
Hmmm... the team picked up points in 16 straight games, and the most you could do was bring up the blown leads in Detroit and Dallas. Objectivity is highs and lows. Whenever there is a low, you jump all over it. Whenever there is a high, you beat it down with Lowes.

Quote:
goaltending situation was a joke and viola after he was dealt lowe comes out with his quote about let's face it no one will win with a sub 900 netminding performance?

really?
And????

How does this demonstrate your objectivity? Oh, sorry, this is your HEY, I WAS RIGHT thing that you need to add into all your posts.

Quote:
I said Staios wouldn't be able to handle the minutes and he can't. I've stuck by Brewer saying he does a great job in his own end and I don't get on him for the lack of offense at times
Everyone has been saying that about Staois. And I'll take him playing 22 minutes per night and have it result in a 3:1 ratio of good games to bad games. Aside from Smith and Brewer, there isn't anyone else who can play those kinds of minutes. You already said you don't like Cross, so who does that leave?

Bergeron?
Ferguson?
Ullanov?

Sorry, these guys aren't any better than Staois as 20+ minute guys.

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Old
04-02-2004, 11:17 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspin
If I remember correctly you also wanted Moreau out of town when Grier left.
Let's be fair here, MOST people said Moreau should be, or would be gone, this year before the regular season began. No one expected him to sign a long term contract that decreases in $ as time goes on, and NOBODY expected him to have a career MVP type season.

I admit it. And I was wrong.

But I sure as poop ain't the only one!

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Old
04-02-2004, 11:31 AM
  #41
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Well, I'm not going to take sides because I love the debates everyone brings to this place, and I've been there in terms of spitting bullets in a debate.

Let's look at this place like a family. Some are dads, some are moms, some are kids and some are the crazy damn uncle up in the attic.

But guess what? At different times, we're all one or more of those people, sometimes in the same debate!

And ALL OF US can be a little tough to deal with sometimes.

If there's been a Parise/Pouliot thread I haven't ground into a fine white powder I'd like to see it. I bet there's a few people here who cringe when they see a 68,000 word item splitting hairs in that debate, but I'm not giving it up and if you think I won't remind people if Pouliot becomes a star you're nuts.

I remember the time Shawn Horcoff got sent out for conditioning and I lost it. Went completely ape, did a long and winding feel sorry for Shawn epic, to which someone (probably speeds) reacted to by saying "isn't that going a little overboard?"


Well, yes it was. Is Matts overboard when he brings up Salo alot? Well, yes, sure, but he makes his point and if you don't want to talk about it, don't respond.

Sooner or later, people will stop responding to me going on about Pouliot. They'll see I've posted, and say "good grief, here he goes again."

So, you don't respond. IGNORE me on this subject. I can take it. I'm used to it.

Especially from family.

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Old
04-02-2004, 12:10 PM
  #42
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Yeah

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
Let's be fair here, MOST people said Moreau should be, or would be gone, this year before the regular season began. No one expected him to sign a long term contract that decreases in $ as time goes on, and NOBODY expected him to have a career MVP type season.

I admit it. And I was wrong.

But I sure as poop ain't the only one!
I did not think that Moreau would get 20 and be what third in goals on the team but not everyone wanted him gone. I thought he could easily attain 15. We had this debate a lot on Oilfans about heart vs. skill. Even if he did not score 20 goals this year he was worth keeping. There are a lot of other players that should go before him (Chimera, etc.) There are some people that go strictly by the numbers and compare two players. I think teams like the NYRs etc have proven that that is not a feasible way to go about it. I remember having a huge arguement with Oilfanman on Oilfans when Lowe gave Torres a one way contract. He was so so upset and at that time I stated how we nee the grit nad the guys to light a fire under the team to lead by example. I did state in that thread that I could see him being a 25 goal scorer someday. Did I think he would get 20 this year?? Nope. I must say that I am a bit disappointed that he does not hit more consistently but that is a result of the role he has been put in.

I guess the thing that I notice a lot is that a lot of people on both boards look at players with the what have you done for me lately attitude and call for them to be traded as soon as they are in a slump. Ryan Smyth is a perfect example. As soon as he struggled 75% of the posters for calling for him to be gone and creating every trade scenario possible. I do not hear those calls now. Heck I have not heard from Walsher in forever and that is all he would bring upa s would Smyth94 on the other board. Players go through little slumps but too many people are too impatient and want them traded away right away but guess what? The player that comes here will go through a slump as well at some point. The Smyth trade calls baffled my mind. Here is a guy that wants to be here more than anyone in the league. He bleeds copper and blue and signed for less to stay here. He is under contract for two more years at a great price and is a complet et warrior that would d do anything for the team. He is in the top 15 in shots on goal and our top point getter and goal scorer. I could see if he was a UFA or was asking for 7 million or something. Now nobody brings this up. They forget very quickly what he brings to this team.

Then the mother load of it all was the Carter and Niinima trades. I could not believe peoples reactions. They went as far as some posters on the other site saying we should stage an uprising, etc. The called for Lowes head and a lot of nasty things were said. Carter's play was always lackluster and his problems in NYR and LA are not suprising to me in the least. The only reason he did great here was that he was given every opportunity on the PP, etc. I think he will have good streaks in his career but will never be that good of an all round player. I guess what I am saying is yeah it is easy to overreact but to go to the extreme of calling names andoutright childishness is too much when it is so you that is wrong. That is Matts(Dennis). I must admit that he has calmed down a lot lately but to want to rub Salo in Lowe's face is just ridiculous when he can rub Carter and Torres in his face and hopefully rub making the playoffs in as well.

While I am going one thing I cannot understand is why all the GMs are so upset about the Nedved deal and why they think it is so unfair. They traded a great prospect in Helminen (who outshines Tambelini and Nystrom in Michigan) and a second round pick essentially for 17 games of Nedved. If the Oilers would have fallen out of the playoff picture right after the allstar break do you think they would still be upset? I don't. It is ridiculous. I think a prospect and a second round pick for 17 games of one player is pretty fine especially if Helminen has a 10 year NHL career.

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Old
04-02-2004, 02:11 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspin
Ryan Smyth is a perfect example. As soon as he struggled 75% of the posters for calling for him to be gone and creating every trade scenario possible. I do not hear those calls now.

They traded a great prospect in Helminen (who outshines Tambelini and Nystrom in Michigan) and a second round pick essentially for 17 games of Nedved. I think a prospect and a second round pick for 17 games of one player is pretty fine especially if Helminen has a 10 year NHL career.
Smyth - I agree and I am actually one guy who never wanted to trade him. heart and soul.

Nedved deal - I agree that the trade was more fair then some want to say but I thik you forgot Markkanen was involved there too. (But I think Edmonton only got a 3rd for him last summer wasn't it?).

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Old
04-02-2004, 03:28 PM
  #44
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Hmmm

well the thing is when I say things like "what I said before" that goes for the old stuff over at OF.

My stance on Moreau was that it was time for the Oilers to allocate their payroll in a different manner. I mean I loved MGM, don't get me wrong. I loved Marchant despite all the blown breakaways and I loved Moreau when he couldn't put the puck in the ocean and was taking so many dumb penalties. And I really liked Grier.

But the arrival of guys like Reasoner and Horcoff and Chimera meant we had cheaper bottom six options.

So I wasn't saying cut Moreau outright like I did with Tommy, I was just saying that I don't think he gives enough to warrent his contract and honestly until this season I'd stand by that. and I love what he's done this year but look at how cold he's been since the nashville game. he isn't even getting scoring chances anymore. now it could be that both Stoll and BG's gmae has fallen off but I'm just saying that while I love the fact he took an extended but decreased contract, I'm not ready to makr him down as anything more than a 15 goalscorer.

the staios thing was something where he was getting about 23 or 24 min and I didn't think he could hold up. also a thing where why waste PP minutes on Staios? he isn't good there and that's stamina he could be using at ES and PK. I thought it was asking too much and Staios looks dead out there right now. about the only guy's who been able to stand up to the volume of minutes is brew

as for the slings and arrows, I'm not calling Guy a bad man I'm just saying that there's a young guy who might land with one of the dailies and it would be nice to have a guy there with objectivity. guy might be that guy yet but when it comes to lowe he's off to a poor start.

if guy lands that spot and he has an active email, I'm sure he'll hear lots from other readers both good and bad

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Old
04-02-2004, 07:50 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
guy might be that guy
OK, NOW I'm confused!

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