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GDT: 12/6 Toronto Maple Leafs @ New York Rangers 7PM MSG

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Old
12-07-2007, 08:42 AM
  #351
WheresBarnaby
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Rangers absolutely smell out the Garden and the same people appear to pronounce that Malik is the problem. They must be right. He was on ice for all 8 goals against and that blind idiotic pass up the middle in the defensive zone by Girardi was something that Malik told him to do before the game.
No, but his wonderful defensive zone double minor, effectively stopped the Rangers comeback, and gave Toronto their cofidence back. Before that goal, the Rangers were outshooting Toronto 12-6, and had tied it. Now Hank sucked tonight too, as did the rest of the team as a whole, don't get me wrong, but Malik opened the flood gates.

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12-07-2007, 08:42 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Totally agree..Malik was no worse then the rest of the team...As for calling up a great all star from Hartford in his place, we shouldn't let the fact that two of those D-men are hurt and the others are playing woeful, inconsistent defensive hockey in the AHL enter into the equation becausie it is all Malik's fault....

ANd, if people have been watching, there has been plenty of blame to go around, incldung the youngsters...Just touching on the younger players here....The KIng has been far from stellar recently and has let in some really bad goals since the Dallas game....Girardi has sucked more often then not the past 5-7 games....Staal has levelled off, Dubi has had a few horrible games recently....Are Hossa and especially Prucha and Callahan, ever going to score a damn goal again? People love to praise Cally for his scrappiness, but he is nothing more then a 4th liner right now..Hell, I think he has ONE POINT in his last 15-18 games.....Don't get me wrong, I can live with the peaks and valleys of kids, just pointing out that there are a hell of alot bigger problems then Malik, who will hopefully be paired with Mara on the 3rd pair in the not to distant future...

Thank you. 100% correct. Problem is people don't like to point out the flaws of their favorite players on this board. The youngsters have been getting schooled lately but somehow its Malik's fault. People just need a scapegoat. But realistically people need to be less biased and actually grasp what they are watching, b/c the whole team is playing horrible right now. Not just Malik.

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12-07-2007, 08:44 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by clemsonRanger View Post
i feel with avery in the lineup everybody feels like they can just play thier game, without him i feel like they worry about garbage that they dont have too, and i also feel like avery doesnt care that jagr is an all time great hell still give it too him and he doesnt care when i personally think hockey i think avery, as much as he is a ****** he is what hockey is supposed to be

Not true. We played our two best games of the year w/o Avery. The last game against the Isles and Sens. Stop playing favorites. This team can play well every game. They just seem to take a game off here and there which annoys the hell out of me.

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12-07-2007, 08:57 AM
  #354
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Thank you. 100% correct. Problem is people don't like to point out the flaws of their favorite players on this board. The youngsters have been getting schooled lately but somehow its Malik's fault. People just need a scapegoat. But realistically people need to be less biased and actually grasp what they are watching, b/c the whole team is playing horrible right now. Not just Malik.
I'm a Girardi fan, but he's played his worst NHL hockey over the past 2 weeks and several of his mistakes have lead directly to goals over the past 3 games. Is that better?

Christ, you can't even make a comment about a player around here without someone saying "the board" does nothing but pick on (player's name in thread title) and use him as a scapegoat. I mean, do I really have to give a breakdown of every single players performance on the ice I'm going to make a comment about one of them in particular?

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12-07-2007, 09:01 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I'm a Girardi fan, but he's played his worst NHL hockey over the past 2 weeks and several of his mistakes have lead directly to goals over the past 3 games. Is that better?

Christ, you can't even make a comment about a player around here without someone saying "the board" does nothing but pick on (player's name in thread title) and use him as a scapegoat. I mean, do I really have to give a breakdown of every single players performance on the ice I'm going to make a comment about one of them in particular?
Problem is that as bad as Girardi has played he's still been able to make a positive contribution. What has Malik done to help the team in his two games back? Bobbled the puck all over the ice, repeatedly hasn't been able to keep the puck in the offensive zone, taken stupid penalties and been horrible in the defensive zone. Incredible but this is the worst I've seen a defensmen play since we had Hatcher, Urianov and Krappa on the team!

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12-07-2007, 09:03 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I'm a Girardi fan, but he's played his worst NHL hockey over the past 2 weeks and several of his mistakes have lead directly to goals over the past 3 games. Is that better?

Christ, you can't even make a comment about a player around here without someone saying "the board" does nothing but pick on (player's name in thread title) and use him as a scapegoat. I mean, do I really have to give a breakdown of every single players performance on the ice I'm going to make a comment about one of them in particular?
yes that is better. I'm just saying that it kind of gets old after the Rangers lose it is always Maliks fault and nobody elses. Last nights loss was a team loss. Nobody played well. They were all at fault for being lazy.

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12-07-2007, 09:49 AM
  #357
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I missed the entire game live...

and my wife stopped the DVR recording about one minute in. But, I can say that this doesn't seem to be the response to a 4-0 loss that the Rangers were expecting, and that at which the players were "mad". Seems that what was working during their small streak is not working, and who knows why. Can Henke be tired? Can the defense be tired? Were they playing over their heads and Henke was bailing them out? Who knows. The offense is a joke and questions as to whether or not Dubi is a top line centerman right now will be swirling. These are the dog days of December and can make or break a season. We knew this was coming up and it's not starting out nicely. Can't jump ship yet, but there is reason to be worried.

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12-07-2007, 10:09 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by WheresBarnaby View Post
No, but his wonderful defensive zone double minor, effectively stopped the Rangers comeback, and gave Toronto their cofidence back. Before that goal, the Rangers were outshooting Toronto 12-6, and had tied it. Now Hank sucked tonight too, as did the rest of the team as a whole, don't get me wrong, but Malik opened the flood gates.
Aside from the piece of the game where the Rangers scored two late first period goals they were as uninterested and bad as a team could possibly be. People here are pointing out that the return of Malik is the reason.

It's also about the time Callahan returned but no similar complaints against him despite his only contribution being that he looks like he is trying. I'm not stupid enough to think there is a correlation. I'm also not stupid enough to think that Malik deserves blame when I see Giradi playing ineptly along with the rest of the garbage.

Your leaders and best players should take the blame when things aren't going well. Target #1 should be Jagr who is a shell of the former Jagr. That is the single biggest differential of negative ability on display this season as opposed to last.

There will always be fans who will scream for the youngsters because they feel their team should be better. It's akin to the football fans loving the backup quarterback, usually until the time he takes over. Then it's time to root for the next backup.

I'm not saying Malik is playing well or deserving of a Norris Trophy as one chap opined. I'm saying to pick him out of a game where you can't point to a single player as having upheld his part of the bargain is ignorant.

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12-07-2007, 10:18 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Aside from the piece of the game where the Rangers scored two late first period goals they were as uninterested and bad as a team could possibly be. People here are pointing out that the return of Malik is the reason.

It's also about the time Callahan returned but no similar complaints against him despite his only contribution being that he looks like he is trying. I'm not stupid enough to think there is a correlation. I'm also not stupid enough to think that Malik deserves blame when I see Giradi playing ineptly along with the rest of the garbage.

Your leaders and best players should take the blame when things aren't going well. Target #1 should be Jagr who is a shell of the former Jagr. That is the single biggest differential of negative ability on display this season as opposed to last.

There will always be fans who will scream for the youngsters because they feel their team should be better. It's akin to the football fans loving the backup quarterback, usually until the time he takes over. Then it's time to root for the next backup.

I'm not saying Malik is playing well or deserving of a Norris Trophy as one chap opined. I'm saying to pick him out of a game where you can't point to a single player as having upheld his part of the bargain is ignorant.

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12-07-2007, 10:24 AM
  #360
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I don't like Malik, Chosen...

and haven't even seen the last game, but I don't know how you'd blame a loss on him.

A shell of Jagr's former self would be productive - so he's not even that. We've seen it throughout the majority of the season - he's disinterested. He's playing with little emotion on a daily basis. Teams figured out how to key on him and it's working. Of course, that doesn't explain why he can't setup in the offensive zone on the PP.

Other guys aren't coming through either. Some may've been playing over their heads. Some may've been played too much and don't have a lot of gas. Some may be playing out of role/position. Hopefully the last couple games isn't indicative of other teams getting better and the Rangers not being able to hold on. The next games will tell a lot, but surely standing pat isn't going to get it done and adjustments have to be made.

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12-07-2007, 10:27 AM
  #361
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Attended these two last games, so you can imagine how thrilled I am right now.

One thing I noticed, especially at last night's game... "Hey, *******, DOWN IN FRONT"s are wayyyy up. Some of this could be edginess related to the team's play, but a lot is common sense. I guess they don't run pre-game briefings on arena etiquette anymore, but if the clock is running, you are sitting. This is why the new building will have superior sightlines and no promenades.

And to the morons behind yelling, "Please take a seat" works much better than anything with the word "*******."

Seriously. If you were sitting in 328, row A, your language was out of control. Kids go to these games, and all you do is make people think you really could be the ignorant **** that you are.

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12-07-2007, 11:02 AM
  #362
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I'm not saying Malik is playing well or deserving of a Norris Trophy as one chap opined. I'm saying to pick him out of a game where you can't point to a single player as having upheld his part of the bargain is ignorant.
And I'm not saying that he is the sole reason we lost. However, he certainly accounts for more than his fair share of suckiness! If you ranked each d-mans performance over the last two games how would you have the big Oaf ranked? Probably below Staal, Tyutin, and Girardi even with Rosie and above Struds. Is that what we should expect or be satisfied with from him? No, the way he is playing he deserves to be benched.

There are other guys in the league (Gill is a perfect example) who are slower than Malik and aren't exposed so often. Difference is they play with passion. Malik looks like he doesn't give a *******. That's why he should be benched and thats why I would love to see him get thrown off the team!

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12-07-2007, 12:18 PM
  #363
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And I'm not saying that he is the sole reason we lost. However, he certainly accounts for more than his fair share of suckiness! If you ranked each d-mans performance over the last two games how would you have the big Oaf ranked? Probably below Staal, Tyutin, and Girardi even with Rosie and above Struds. Is that what we should expect or be satisfied with from him? No, the way he is playing he deserves to be benched.

There are other guys in the league (Gill is a perfect example) who are slower than Malik and aren't exposed so often. Difference is they play with passion. Malik looks like he doesn't give a *******. That's why he should be benched and thats why I would love to see him get thrown off the team!
Without saying whether you are right or wrong concerning your appraisal of the defensemen, since you compared Malik's play with Rosy as being at about the same level, please explain why after a Rangers loss there is the inevitable hatefest at Malik and not a word about Rosy?

Bottom line: It's because he's big and doesn't hit. It's always about that. Rangers fans have always hated large defensemen who don't hit. Fact of life.

And where are the endless threads about Strudwick's ineptness? He gets cut a bit of slack because of the false perception that he is physical. Mara, too.

I also don't think Malik has been any worse than Girardi since Malik returned.

THis notion that Malik isn't trying is bull****. If he were not trying he would be benched and tossed. Big guys tend to not look like they are trying while waterbugs like Prucha appear to be trying harder than anyone. For someone who tries that hard and who has that much offensive talent, Prucha should be getting ripped here, but he's not because of the double standard of the size of a player.

I hope Malik is traded, for his sake. No one deserves to be mercilessly booed in his "home" arena. When he is no longer here there will be endless threads concerning the new whipping boy, whoever he is.

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12-07-2007, 12:19 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
And I'm not saying that he is the sole reason we lost. However, he certainly accounts for more than his fair share of suckiness! If you ranked each d-mans performance over the last two games how would you have the big Oaf ranked? Probably below Staal, Tyutin, and Girardi even with Rosie and above Struds. Is that what we should expect or be satisfied with from him? No, the way he is playing he deserves to be benched.

There are other guys in the league (Gill is a perfect example) who are slower than Malik and aren't exposed so often. Difference is they play with passion. Malik looks like he doesn't give a *******. That's why he should be benched and thats why I would love to see him get thrown off the team!
By the way, if you saw Gill all of the time you might have a different view of him, especially if he were in your home town uniform. Funny how that works.

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12-07-2007, 12:24 PM
  #365
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Without saying whether you are right or wrong concerning your appraisal of the defensemen, since you compared Malik's play with Rosy as being at about the same level, please explain why after a Rangers loss there is the inevitable hatefest at Malik and not a word about Rosy?

Bottom line: It's because he's big and doesn't hit. It's always about that. Rangers fans have always hated large defensemen who don't hit. Fact of life.

And where are the endless threads about Strudwick's ineptness? He gets cut a bit of slack because of the false perception that he is physical. Mara, too.

I also don't think Malik has been any worse than Girardi since Malik returned.

THis notion that Malik isn't trying is bull****. If he were not trying he would be benched and tossed. Big guys tend to not look like they are trying while waterbugs like Prucha appear to be trying harder than anyone. For someone who tries that hard and who has that much offensive talent, Prucha should be getting ripped here, but he's not because of the double standard of the size of a player.

I hope Malik is traded, for his sake. No one deserves to be mercilessly booed in his "home" arena. When he is no longer here there will be endless threads concerning the new whipping boy, whoever he is.
A voice of reason, thank you.

People are simple - if they see a guy not moving his legs as fast as other players, or wearing expressions on their face like other players they must not be trying

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12-07-2007, 12:38 PM
  #366
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Chosen...

are people more tolerant of Rozy a result of him contributing elsewhere? Or the way in which he sacrafices his body, which seems to be far greater than Malik (blocked shots mostly)?

I will agree with the statement as to why Malik gets a bad rap (although it's not so much his size). Many may not appreciate that outlet pass (especially when several of them are high-risk and are prone to interception). And perhaps many don't appreciate his recovery (he gets beat, but often recovers). And if he threw his body around, or fought, the perception would change, even if the results were inferior since the 'hit' or 'fight' often is what's noticed, not the nice little pick-pocket, or forcing a guy wide and to regroup.

My issue with Malik is he never shows emotion or urgency. He's trying, I'm sure, but he has one gear, and often that one gear isn't enough. I have other issues, but I try not to blindly blame him.

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12-07-2007, 01:19 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Without saying whether you are right or wrong concerning your appraisal of the defensemen, since you compared Malik's play with Rosy as being at about the same level, please explain why after a Rangers loss there is the inevitable hatefest at Malik and not a word about Rosy?

Bottom line: It's because he's big and doesn't hit. It's always about that. Rangers fans have always hated large defensemen who don't hit. Fact of life.

And where are the endless threads about Strudwick's ineptness? He gets cut a bit of slack because of the false perception that he is physical. Mara, too.

I also don't think Malik has been any worse than Girardi since Malik returned.

THis notion that Malik isn't trying is bull****. If he were not trying he would be benched and tossed. Big guys tend to not look like they are trying while waterbugs like Prucha appear to be trying harder than anyone. For someone who tries that hard and who has that much offensive talent, Prucha should be getting ripped here, but he's not because of the double standard of the size of a player.

I hope Malik is traded, for his sake. No one deserves to be mercilessly booed in his "home" arena. When he is no longer here there will be endless threads concerning the new whipping boy, whoever he is.
Why is it that Rosie looked so much better when he played with Staal? Did the whole team play that much better and it made Rosie play better or was it the fact that when your first pairing d-men are stinking up the ice its a letdown for the whole team?

Very few teams have the ability to play well when their d is playing like crap. Offense starts from your own zone. When your d-men are bobbling the puck and can't bring it up the ice it throws your forwards timing off.

Sure I'd love Malik to crunch some people. But in lieu of that how about rubbing out the puck carrier along the boards and stopping the play? He doesn't do a thing out there. On the 2nd goal last nite he was near the faceoff circle giving the puck carrier all the room in the world to get the puck to the front of the net! Ever hear of pressuring the puck carrier. He doesn't have to splat him to the boards (although I'd love to see that) but for Christ sake take him outta the play. Don't give him all the room and time to get the puck to the net. Piss poor play by Malik. After that he goes outta his way to hand the game to TO with his stupid, stupid high sticking penalty. Right there you've got 2 goals in a period of 25 minutes of play thanks to his stupidity. That will lose alot of games for you!

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12-07-2007, 02:25 PM
  #368
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Why is it that Rosie looked so much better when he played with Staal?
Because Staal is easily our best defenseman and second only to Lundqvist on this team.


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Did the whole team play that much better and it made Rosie play better or was it the fact that when your first pairing d-men are stinking up the ice its a letdown for the whole team?
Did it ever occur to you that you have it backwards? Staal made Rosy better. He would also make Malik better as a partner.

For all the hype surrounding Tyutin, what have we got? He's average at best with time running out for him to attain what we have been told to expect from him. He throws nice hits about 5 games a year. Why not the rest of the time?

I assume Girardi will turn it around but he is currently playing like garbage.

Mara is the most overrated of the bunch even though not much is expected of him.

Strudwick is an AHL quality defenseman.

Aside from Staal I don't see much worth crowing about on the backline this season but since there must be a single reason for bad performances you and the others in the pack are free to not understand that Malik, even when he plays poorly, is not responsible for his team being blown out.

If one player doesn't play well (except for the goalie) it should have no bearing on the rest of the slugs out there. If you're trying to say that the Rangers are losing it because of Malik than ship them all out because than they are not professionals.

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12-07-2007, 02:34 PM
  #369
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I agree on Tyutin...

for me, he's just not there enough. The talent and smarts are there, as well as the size, but he is unable to put it together on a consistent basis, in my opinion.

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12-07-2007, 02:44 PM
  #370
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Because Staal is easily our best defenseman and second only to Lundqvist on this team.




Did it ever occur to you that you have it backwards? Staal made Rosy better. He would also make Malik better as a partner.

For all the hype surrounding Tyutin, what have we got? He's average at best with time running out for him to attain what we have been told to expect from him. He throws nice hits about 5 games a year. Why not the rest of the time?

I assume Girardi will turn it around but he is currently playing like garbage.

Mara is the most overrated of the bunch even though not much is expected of him.

Strudwick is an AHL quality defenseman.

Aside from Staal I don't see much worth crowing about on the backline this season but since there must be a single reason for bad performances you and the others in the pack are free to not understand that Malik, even when he plays poorly, is not responsible for his team being blown out.

If one player doesn't play well (except for the goalie) it should have no bearing on the rest of the slugs out there. If you're trying to say that the Rangers are losing it because of Malik than ship them all out because than they are not professionals.
I agree with everything you've said. However, everyone of the d-men you've mentioned, with the exception of Struds, has outplayed Malik. I have no expectations whatsoever of Struds -- he's a #7 d-man at best. Everyone one else you mentioned can contribute on both sides of the blueline. Malik is worthless once he gets past his own blueline. Rosie, Girardi, Mara and Tytin can win a game with their offense. Malik never, ever, ever will!

So if your going to be purely a defensive d-man you'd better be really solid in your own end. Solid is not one word that anybody can use to describe Malik!

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12-07-2007, 05:21 PM
  #371
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I agree with everything you've said. However, everyone of the d-men you've mentioned, with the exception of Struds, has outplayed Malik. I have no expectations whatsoever of Struds -- he's a #7 d-man at best. Everyone one else you mentioned can contribute on both sides of the blueline. Malik is worthless once he gets past his own blueline. Rosie, Girardi, Mara and Tytin can win a game with their offense. Malik never, ever, ever will!

So if your going to be purely a defensive d-man you'd better be really solid in your own end. Solid is not one word that anybody can use to describe Malik!
He is not playing well this year. For the two years before this season no defenseman was more dependable than Malik in his own end except perhaps Girardi. Yet he was consistently ripped here and at the Garden.

Why?

Because he is big, appears disinterested (to the people who don't get it) because his legs don't churn, and mostly because fans like players who hit, even if those hits put them out of position.

If you don't think that is 100% true, remember that the majority of fans at the Garden and here liked Purinton because they were hoping that hockey would become UFC. Never mind that he was as bad a defenseman as I have ever seen in a Rangers uniform and we're talking about an awful lot of teams.

The point remains that if a team gets blown out, one player cannot be responsible for that blowout. Somebody here who reads threads like this would believe that Malik went around shooting at his own goal, skating like a bear on roller skates, stared comatosely into the distance while players danced around him, and put a lounge chair on the blue line while sipping drinks with umbrellas in them.

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12-07-2007, 07:49 PM
  #372
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Chosen..

there is one variable over the last two seasons you're not taking into consideration. Playing defense is a lot easier when the ice is tilted in the offensive zone. For the most part Malik played with Jagr as part of a unit of five. Can't say what percent, but I'm quite confident it was greater than 50%. It's a bit easier on a defenseman when your forwards control the play. It's also a bit easier when, very often, the opposition doesn't press because of the threat of Jagr. This season Jagr isn't a threat, and I think that has a bit to do with the difference in Malik's play this season compared to past seasons. It's an adjustment. His breakout passes are less effective. The support isn't as optimal. This doesn't make him a bad defenseman, but I do think it's a valid observation.

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