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Old
04-02-2004, 02:26 PM
  #1
Asiaoil
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Conklin etc

I guess Conks is a bit too old to be considered a rookie. But looking at his numbers (17-13-4 2.35 .915 ) you've got to believe that he would be on the all-rookie team with Raycroft if he was eligible. MAB should also be on the 2nd all rookie team if the selectors have any sense at all.

Jussi has also climbed into the the top 10 for save percentage with a 9.18

Unless some crazy deal turns up in the off-season - I can't see any reason not to go with Conks and Jussi next year with JDD in Toronto. Our goaltending and defense sure have come a long way this year - regardless how the playoff drive turns out.

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04-02-2004, 04:41 PM
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Well

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
I guess Conks is a bit too old to be considered a rookie. But looking at his numbers (17-13-4 2.35 .915 ) you've got to believe that he would be on the all-rookie team with Raycroft if he was eligible. MAB should also be on the 2nd all rookie team if the selectors have any sense at all.

Jussi has also climbed into the the top 10 for save percentage with a 9.18

Unless some crazy deal turns up in the off-season - I can't see any reason not to go with Conks and Jussi next year with JDD in Toronto. Our goaltending and defense sure have come a long way this year - regardless how the playoff drive turns out.

the cool thing about Ty is that yes he may be 28 already but given his lack of experience at the NHL level, there is some reason to believe that given more GP he could get better. As Igor stated before, I believe the fans and media and organizations alike have been too caught up with the idea of a No.1 tender. Yes this has been popullarized as of late but is that to say that a new idea, or in this case an old idea made new again, ie the tandem, is wrong?

Minny used it to much success last year and their netminding hasn't been a problem this season either.

I think it took the Oilers so wrong to get rid of Tommy because they were so caught up in the idea of the number one guy and how could anyone succeed without one.

I look forward to a Ty/Jussi tandem just as I did last summer before the Jussi trade

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04-02-2004, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
As Igor stated before, I believe the fans and media and organizations alike have been too caught up with the idea of a No.1 tender.
I'm not sure. As Scotty Bowman pointed out in his recent interview with Jim Hughson, no team has ever made a serious run at the cup without a clear #1 tender. Not to say it can't happen, but he didn't seem to believe a tandem would work.

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04-02-2004, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
I guess Conks is a bit too old to be considered a rookie. But looking at his numbers (17-13-4 2.35 .915 ) you've got to believe that he would be on the all-rookie team with Raycroft if he was eligible. MAB should also be on the 2nd all rookie team if the selectors have any sense at all.

Jussi has also climbed into the the top 10 for save percentage with a 9.18

Unless some crazy deal turns up in the off-season - I can't see any reason not to go with Conks and Jussi next year with JDD in Toronto. Our goaltending and defense sure have come a long way this year - regardless how the playoff drive turns out.
Conklin probably would be on the 2nd rookie team if he was eligible. That I agree with. But I don't see Bergeron making the 2nd team (he's probably got an outside shot). I can name 4 guys off the top of my head who have had stellar years from October on: Joni Pitkanen, Dan Hamhuis, John-Michael Liles, and Paul Martin. They are probably more deserving...

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04-02-2004, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyped
Conklin probably would be on the 2nd rookie team if he was eligible. That I agree with. But I don't see Bergeron making the 2nd team (he's probably got an outside shot). I can name 4 guys off the top of my head who have had stellar years from October on: Joni Pitkanen, Dan Hamhuis, John-Michael Liles, and Paul Martin. They are probably more deserving...
Those players have more high end talent, but clearly Bergeron has been more important to his team that any of those other guys (if we make the playoffs).

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04-02-2004, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PineJockey
I'm not sure. As Scotty Bowman pointed out in his recent interview with Jim Hughson, no team has ever made a serious run at the cup without a clear #1 tender. Not to say it can't happen, but he didn't seem to believe a tandem would work.
I don't think we'll be seriously competing for the cup in the next couple of years. Once we are ready, hopefully one of our current guys (or maybe even JDD or someone else?) will be able to take the mantle of true number one. For next year, though, I'm pretty confident about this tandem.

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04-02-2004, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
I look forward to a Ty/Jussi tandem just as I did last summer before the Jussi trade
Yeah you were certainly right about that one Matts - but it was a higher risk strategy that could have easily blown-up and you've got to play the percentages.

I though Tommy should have been given one last shot last summer - but that was more about re-building his trade value for a deadline deal than anything else. Who know if anyone was even willing to take Salo's contract off our hands last summer - I guess only Lowe knows the answer to that question.

Water under the bridge now though. The good news is that with our existing roster players and prospects - our depth at both defense and goal looks MUCH MUCH better than it did last summer.

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04-02-2004, 06:50 PM
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Welll

I think getting to the 3rd round in an era of 16 teams, Min last year consititutes a good run at winning the cup so I'll have to humbely disagree with Bowman on this one. Also citing the year his very own Wings beat the Canes as well.

Well I don't want to seem too cocksure about what I said last summer but to me it seemed like a sureshot. Salo had an up and down, mostly down, year in '01. Then a great season in '02. Then a terrible year in '03. So I was looking at a guy who'd had one terrible year, one great year and one mostly terrible year out of his last three seasons.

So I really didn't think it was worth bothering to keep depending on a guy when chances were he could no longer deliver. Plus you had last year's terrible performance and Lowe even singled him out along with a couple of others after last year's playoff defeat.

Then you had Lowe questioning his work habits.

inconsistent, aging, though we all are and poor work habits

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04-02-2004, 07:00 PM
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A couple of final thoughts on MAB

1. Some people here believe I focus too much on the negative and I'll admit I like to be the devil's advocate and here on a board where the most vociferous are the most Pro-Oilers brass, it's fun to point out things that don't paint the org in a favourable light. Hold on, I'm getting to my point here re MAB I like the kid for many reasons but one of them is that he's shown enough on the PP that he might finish at 17-18 min a night but he's playing 4-5 on the PP and this keeps other guys fresh and keeps man advantaged hamhands like Staios and Smith OFF the PP. It allocates the minutes in a much better manner and in the future could keep a guy like Staios from getting rundown. As far as Brew, I think MacT's setting a precident where #2 is gonna be played at least 26 min a night unless we have tonnes of PP's or he's in the box for a few minutes some particular game. Now if we can get Brew off the PP, we could really get some great games out of him where he isn't wasting time on the PP.

2. It's exciting to see a defenseman jump into the play. It will be fine if Bergy just thrives as a 5-6 who chips in on the PP but if he starts creating chances at ES, then for his salary and position he'll be pure gold. And it seems that in the last 10-15 games now he's actively looking to step up and he isn't being benched so credit to mact for either A: encouraging some riverboat gambling or B: ignoring it and focusing on the greater good when MAB's forays aren't succesful like they were last night on the 3-1 goal or the Pisani goal vs the Preds or the Nedved goal vs the Yotes or the Stoll goal in Chicago

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04-02-2004, 07:12 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyped
Conklin probably would be on the 2nd rookie team if he was eligible. That I agree with. But I don't see Bergeron making the 2nd team (he's probably got an outside shot). I can name 4 guys off the top of my head who have had stellar years from October on: Joni Pitkanen, Dan Hamhuis, John-Michael Liles, and Paul Martin. They are probably more deserving...
MAB should be on the first team. He is statistically superior to EVERY rookie defenceman, and is the most important to his team. Even the vaunted Joni Pitkanen hasn't made as large an impact. If MAB had played the whole season (in other words, if he'd have gotten the green light before he went down and not after, and they'd have let him play his game as they are now) we'd be talking about a Calder trophy.

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Old
04-02-2004, 09:41 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
... my point here re MAB I like the kid for many reasons but one of them is that he's shown enough on the PP that he might finish at 17-18 min a night but he's playing 4-5 on the PP and this keeps other guys fresh and keeps man advantaged hamhands like Staios and Smith OFF the PP. It allocates the minutes in a much better manner and in the future could keep a guy like Staios from getting rundown. As far as Brew, I think MacT's setting a precident where #2 is gonna be played at least 26 min a night unless we have tonnes of PP's or he's in the box for a few minutes some particular game. Now if we can get Brew off the PP, we could really get some great games out of him where he isn't wasting time on the PP.
Yup, that's my thinking as well. Really the allocation of Dman ice-time is pretty hard to argue with right now. And the Smith-Brewer tandem on the PK has been very good since they were put together a couple of months ago.

Aside from Brewer, who really isn't looking too good on the powerplay though. Wasted icetime for him I think. And as you say ... unnecessary wear.

Quote:
It's exciting to see a defenseman jump into the play. It will be fine if Bergy just thrives as a 5-6 who chips in on the PP but if he starts creating chances at ES, then for his salary and position he'll be pure gold. And it seems that in the last 10-15 games now he's actively looking to step up and he isn't being benched so credit to mact for either A: encouraging some riverboat gambling or B: ignoring it and focusing on the greater good when MAB's forays aren't succesful like they were last night on the 3-1 goal or the Pisani goal vs the Preds or the Nedved goal vs the Yotes or the Stoll goal in Chicago
You take the rough with the smooth with any player. And certainly with the development of young defenseman you expect at least one backwards step for every couple forward. But Bergeron has impressed.

Its still a worry with his size though, and as well as he'd been playing ... Semenov would have been the better choice vs STL IMO. The Oilers seem to be the only squad in the league that doesn't outchance STLs botton-six. Kitchen just keeps getting those big, talentless guys out against Bergy and they cycle the puck in the Oilers end ad nauseum.

Lots of small defensemen have had good careers in this league. But its really a disadvantage (Chara is being hyped for Norris consideration this year, but would he even be in the league if he were only 6 feet tall ). But its a liveable disadvantage if he plays smart and tenaciously enough IMO, and if his strengths outweigh his weaknesses ... that's all you can really ask for. Another thing in his advantage is the Oilers coaching staff ... if there is an area of strength with this group ---> IMO it's there ability to get the best out of a defense corps.

And more than anything. Bergy is a fun guy to watch. And that matters.

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Old
04-02-2004, 09:49 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
MAB should be on the first team. He is statistically superior to EVERY rookie defenceman, and is the most important to his team. Even the vaunted Joni Pitkanen hasn't made as large an impact. If MAB had played the whole season (in other words, if he'd have gotten the green light before he went down and not after, and they'd have let him play his game as they are now) we'd be talking about a Calder trophy.
He had the green light until he started playing catch in the neutral zone with the opposition.

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