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Accountable Andy Poll

View Poll Results: Accountable Andy, should he stay or should he go now?
Ta Da mate, thanks for all the fish. 11 29.73%
Give him one more year to prove he actually CAN coach a team with talent 11 29.73%
What are you talking about? Accountable Andy is Dandy 14 37.84%
Who gives a rodents bum 1 2.70%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-30-2004, 04:20 PM
  #26
punchy1
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Well enough, did you have a look at any of the questions on who you would play and also, how do you feel about Andys always talking about accountability and yet, he benches players that ARE producing in favour of them that aren't and haven't been all season long or as long as they have been Kings?


Belanger has had one of the worst seasons I could imagine for a player with his obvious skills and has been on the ice for 6 GWGs against us during our stretch of futility and yet, he still averages more than 16mins of ice time per game. He is minus 7 during that stretch and a whopping minus 19 on the season waaaay worse than any of our other forwards. (Including his line mates and the rest of our defencive players)


Carter is now averaging over 20mins a game and is minus 6 as well during this time. He has also been on the ice for as many GWG goals against us since he has been here and yet, he has become a fixture up front recieving more ice time than ANY of our other lads.

When it came time to send a message though, Frolov, one of our top two or three hardest working and productive forwards of the season is benched and called out as "not giving us the type of effort we expect of our forwards" during this critical stretch.

Andy, a man who uses words like accountability really only holds a handfull of players actually accountable for what he feels is poor effort or production. That is a majour problem to me.


The other though, to answer your "its funny how ppl here keep saying he's a great coach yet they want him fired...that just isnt' logical" statement. I think it has been said time and again but, I am from the school of "that horse isn't dead yet" school of debate so will say it again.

How long do you give ANY coach to show you that they have the attention of your team and the ability to take them to a championship?

Quenville had not only taken his team (a very injured team one of the seasons that relied on many rookies) to the playoffs every year but he also won them a presidents trophy and yet, after giving him more than 5 years and seeing no significant changes in the immediate future, he were let go.

I can site you plenty of examples of that sort of thing happening but this one will do.

Andy has had ample chance to show what he can do with our team. He has had some extentuating circumstances to contend with but so have many others in his position and not only has he not lead us to a cup or even that close to one, he also isn't in any position really to say "we are allot closer this year to last year and I believe next year is OUR year".

IF.....Andy were in a position to show improvement and the better establishing of the foundation required for us to come back next year and win the cup, I and many others would write this season off as we did the last one as an unfortunate set of circumstances that were outside of his control.

He isn't and he hasn't. (confusing but easily understood)

Instead, we have no bloody idea what to do next year. We don't know if Andy will use Frolov as a third line "energy" player in favour of a line with Carter and Belanger as our top line. We don't know if we should go with Vets or with youth. We don't know what, if anything can or should be done to win us a cup next season.

Now granted, as stated time and again, we are the people who would know them things but, at the end of every year, the fans of each team get together and talk about what needs to be done to get to the cup the following year.

Some or closer than others but, there is always an acceptable plan for what needs to be done to at least help get the team there.

Last summer lots of Kings fans had plenty of suggestions I reckon but, they all centered around a healthy Allison and Deader and Frolov being on our LW on the top two lines. It didn't start or end that way though. Yet still, had it, we would have at least had our plan available for critisizm.

Next year, we have no clue on rather or not Ziggy/Lappy/Allison/Deader/Klatt/Stumpel/Roman/Modry will be with the team and rather or not if they are they will play and if they do, Andy can even make them win.

To me, that is a pretty big issue. I know it isn't to the purple glassed Andy is god types but for me, the fact that we went into another dive once healthy (or as healthy as we are likely to be next year as well) is a serious issue. The fact that he has to coach BOTH young players AND vets and hasn't proven the ability to do so and take a team to the cup after all of these years is of a concern to me.

That said, simply because I fancy he has problems in his skills, that doesn't mean I can't think he is a great coach. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Andy is no different. It isn't a coincidence that the last time we were dominant in certain areas were when Tippet where here.

He is ten times the coach that Boxy and Harpo are and has proven so. He filled the holes in Andys skills and we were better for it.


As I and others have said though, at the end of the day, Andy has had a right propper and long amount of time to show he can make something happen with the team and he hasn't been able to. Put whatever reasons or excuses you want in front of it, I and others would say that there eventually comes a time when you have to turn a corner to get somewhere. I am not certain that Andy is the man anymore to get us where we want to go.

It looks like his team doesn't think so either.

Of course, none of us know bob all about which is right or wrong so it is all just babbling.

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Old
03-30-2004, 04:25 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by navigator
don't you think that the aquisition of jeff cowan for kip brennan addressed specifically that? the problem with kip brennan was that he couldn't contribute in a way that didn't involve bare knuckles. he wasn't benched because he fights too well, or any nonsense like that, he was benched because he was a liability on the ice. cowan gives the team a guy who can fight, and play effectively. he may not be the heavyweight that brennan is, but he gets the job done, and you can bet that he'll be in the lineup every night.
We're seriously beating on a deadhorse here! Again, there is a difference between a true heavyweight and a middleweight. Did we address it with Cowan.....NO! Since this is rocket science to some of you, and the word enforcer confuses some, i'll give it to you! A heavyweight is someone over 220lbs so-to-speak. Do you expect Cowan, Avery, and Lappy to take on guys like Worrell, Laraque, Oliwa, Parker, Johnson......I mean do I have to go down all 29 teams to get the point across! Where do you want to see Lappy's nose, right beside his ear? I am so sick and tired of this BS propaganda that we're fed from our coaching staff. Worrell is bar-none the worst skater in this league, yet he gets a game every night with Cummins. Don't you think there are better players waiting in the wings at Colorado that should be skating. It's constant excuses! Your next excuse will be that we don't get much scoring? How can we, when we play a defensive system with players spread all over the place. You make it sound like a heavyweight is supposed to get 10-15 mins of ice time a game. 6-8 minutes is suffice and it brings a presence..........ONE THAT WE LACK! I like Cowan a lot, but he did not address the heavyweight role (doesn't mean he's not willing-just stupid on our coaching staff's part). The rumor for Barnaby was simply replaced with Cowan to fit into AM's plans! We're the LA Robots at this point!

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Old
03-30-2004, 06:17 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Face Wash
If Andy were to be fired, I guarantee everyone here he'd have a shorter unemployment period than Joel Quenneville. He's gone from "Coach of the Year Candidate" in most rational NHL fans' minds to some of you so-called die-hard Kings fans wanting him fired. Sorry I have to question anyone's judgement who wants him fired at this point. Apparently those people haven't seen the lineups the guy is forced to put out on a nightly basis. Are you watching these games? Do you see how awful Anson Carter is, do you see how Frolov disappeared? How incredibly insignificat Marty Straka became after his knee injury? Do you see how in the end Sean Avery was the best player on the ice every night (a 3rd liner is your best player???). What's Murray supposed to do? At some point the players have to show some pride. I'd like to see wholesale changes on this team, but there's no way Murray should lose his job unless the players revolt against him as a group, which won't happen as long as Matty Norstrom's the captain of this team.

Andy can't coach a team with talent?? Where's the talent? I don't see all that much on this team actually on the ice.

Sorry people, but as I've said for weeks here, they don't have the Horses to run this race and it's a shame.

But what can you do?
I think this whole thread has been really good, with fans going 50/50 on the whole situation. But FW you're claiming that Murray would have a job quicker than Quenville is just opinion. I mean Francis, and Quenville were both candidates for coach of the year and it has nothing to do with them getting hired overnight. I can almost bet you that they'll both have jobs by next season. AM may have to wait depending on teams situations at their present time. I personally believe he would be better suited for a team in the Minnesota mold. He gets his players to work really hard, that's not the question. It's his decisions that are mind boggling. Naslund has been slumping in Vancouver since the loss of Bertuzzi, does that mean he'll get demoted to the fourth line.......better yet sitting in the stands. I know the pro-AM fans will have an answer for that too. I truly believe that he has a problem with certain star players. They show him the respect but they don't seem to get it back. I mean Ziggy was skinning this league at the beginning of the year, and AM is saying he should be playing better. I mean WTF...be happy that this dude is carrying your ass, and even worse having to protect himself from headhunters! I think AM means well, and he's a nice guy when i've met him.........BUT I THINK THE OL' MAN HAS LOST THE PLOT!

I know Punchys novels are long but read the whole thing, and he has really valid points that I agree with completely. AM has been given the world since he got here. We have a much better organization than we've ever had, and there is still a a lot to learn. But if they say they want to mold themselves like Colorado, than they better pay attention a little bit more. Pierre Lacroix will make constant moves, and he won't stop until they have the proper personell. And, let's get past the notion they have continuos barganing chips, because even they are getting thin. They traded a popular Chris Drury for Morris.....didn't work out move on! Bates Battaglia...didn't work out move on! The Kings have plenty of players that should be gone, including Anson in his short stint. As for all the Straka comments, I truly believe it's misuse, and nothing more. I mean this guy had 95pts a couple years ago. He has the touch, he just needs the players that can match his abilities.

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Old
03-30-2004, 06:46 PM
  #29
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I mean Ziggy was skinning this league at the beginning of the year, and AM is saying he should be playing better. I mean WTF
Quote:
But if they say they want to mold themselves like Colorado, than they better pay attention a little bit more. Pierre Lacroix will make constant moves, and he won't stop until they have the proper personell
So it's ok for Lacroix to want to continue to try to get better even when he has one of the best teams in the league, but Murray saying he would like to see Palffy play better even if he's among the top leading scorers in the league is a bad thing? Maybe it's me, but you'll have to explain that one.

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Old
03-30-2004, 07:38 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824
So it's ok for Lacroix to want to continue to try to get better even when he has one of the best teams in the league, but Murray saying he would like to see Palffy play better even if he's among the top leading scorers in the league is a bad thing? Maybe it's me, but you'll have to explain that one.
I think I explained myself. If a player like Ziggy Palffy (playmaker and sniper) is not scoring......say five to six games in a row, than maybe it's warranted. He's tops among the league and the way i'm seeing it, through AM's eyes is that he's playing with flaws or is not completely in the game. I mean how do you call someone out like that publicly. Why doesn't he just look at the dipsh*ts that are just going through the motions playing with no heart. My example had more to do with scorers on this team....exactly what Frolov is going through....same for Cammy.

Lacroix gives his coaching staff the proper players, that he sees fit. It's then the coach's responsibility to figure out what to do with them. Kariya has struggled, but it doesn't mean you put him on the fourth line. If you can't figure out that certain players are coddled and certain players get the shaft in AM's world, than I don't know how many Kings games you're actually watching!

I mean AM sits Frolov (our leading scorer).........explain it to me! Maybe i'm the dipsh*t.

I'm watching the Devils and Rangers on TSN. Bob McKenzie in between periods said that Jason Allison will probably look to leave LA because of conflicts with the coach. How many more examples do you want? Cammy was playing unreal, with a microscope on him....same goes for him.............are we starting to get the trend. It's not a conspiracy or anything like that against our star players........but the fans need them ten times more than some an@l coach and a bunch of Brad Chartrands..........It's easier to get rid of one person rather than a bunch of players. Ask Robitaille what he thinks of AM? We're now losing a top five center in the league...........COOL!

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03-30-2004, 10:05 PM
  #31
Fat Elvis
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My view on this issue is that there are a few types of coaches, there are some that are good at rebuilding teams and there are others who work better with veteran teams. Andy has coached the Canadian national team to the gold and he has coached high school but what these 2 teams have in common is that they were both veteran teams. The National team was filled with vets how had played in the NHL for a number of years. His high school team was filled with seniors and some juniors which are considered the older players for their league. The Kings are becoming a mixed team with some serious youth and some players in the twilight of their careers. Andy IS a very good coach, but what he lacks is his management of the youngest players on the roster and in coming years it looks like we will be getting an influx of young players coming up. Andy has to be able to work these super talented young players into his system or we'll move these kids for players like Carter whom Andy seems to prefer. This aspect of his coaching must change in order for us to be more than an 8th seed and nocked out in the first round.

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Old
03-30-2004, 10:24 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by KING ELVI
My view on this issue is that there are a few types of coaches, there are some that are good at rebuilding teams and there are others who work better with veteran teams. Andy has coached the Canadian national team to the gold and he has coached high school but what these 2 teams have in common is that they were both veteran teams. The National team was filled with vets how had played in the NHL for a number of years. His high school team was filled with seniors and some juniors which are considered the older players for their league. The Kings are becoming a mixed team with some serious youth and some players in the twilight of their careers. Andy IS a very good coach, but what he lacks is his management of the youngest players on the roster and in coming years it looks like we will be getting an influx of young players coming up. Andy has to be able to work these super talented young players into his system or we'll move these kids for players like Carter whom Andy seems to prefer. This aspect of his coaching must change in order for us to be more than an 8th seed and nocked out in the first round.
Agreed..............the key points to this post, is that it was at an Intl. level, where:

A.) They're playing on a bigger sheet of ice
B.) The physicality is not as necessary as it is the NHL, where space is limited
C.) Different Intl rules regarding fighting

As for high school, same points can be made. It's a cleaner game.....physical yes, but you don't see many 230lbr's dropping the mitts, and they're bodies are still not fully developed.

So i'll get off the Murray bashing for awhile.....but he either needs to accept what players bring to the table, help them round out there game and let them do what they do best. He simply tries to make players something they're not. And, it's beyond evident with his ludicrous line combinations. My only problem is that when some people here voice their opinion it's always in favor of the Kings, and everything they do is genius. We need to start seeing results, if we ever want to be considered a powerhouse. I'm tired of "we're a tough team to play against" motto. It needs to be "the CUP is our only goal", not just playoffs and hoping to make a run!

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Old
03-30-2004, 11:04 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swinginutter
So i'll get off the Murray bashing for awhile.....but he either needs to accept what players bring to the table, help them round out there game and let them do what they do best. He simply tries to make players something they're not. And, it's beyond evident with his ludicrous line combinations. My only problem is that when some people here voice their opinion it's always in favor of the Kings, and everything they do is genius. We need to start seeing results, if we ever want to be considered a powerhouse. I'm tired of "we're a tough team to play against" motto. It needs to be "the CUP is our only goal", not just playoffs and hoping to make a run!
not true...ppl here voice their opinions thats not entirely towing the company (kings) line...(i.e. DT is not god to me, not picking up a physical defenseman during the trade deadline, not picking up a physical defenseman in the waiver draft, etc.)...if you want an apologist go talk to FACEWASH (just kidding phil)

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Old
03-31-2004, 08:34 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by jfont
not true...ppl here voice their opinions thats not entirely towing the company (kings) line...(i.e. DT is not god to me, not picking up a physical defenseman during the trade deadline, not picking up a physical defenseman in the waiver draft, etc.)...if you want an apologist go talk to FACEWASH (just kidding phil)
Ouch

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Old
04-03-2004, 03:51 PM
  #35
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It may be a good idea after our season that Andy and DT spend sometime watching Manchester and watch our young players. They may notice that there are some guys who can light it up while still being responsible defensively. It is a shame what they've done with Rosa. The dude just makes things happen even during his brief stint and yet they have no interest in him. They should take a look at what San Jose did by leting some vets go to make room for their young studs. Seems to have worked for them. Good thing we want to build from within yet we have not really developed anyone note worthy. Frolov, Lubo and Huet came from Europe. Gleason was via trade, Grebs from Europe, and I wouldn't bragg about Ebel and Corvo. Cammy can't catch a break and Lehoux is a disaster. I just don't think AM works well with our young players. He has his favorites and it's not necessarily the benefit for the teams success.

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