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Would you trade Legace?

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Old
10-26-2007, 10:11 PM
  #26
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No. Legace is on fire right now.

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10-27-2007, 07:50 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Bluesfan09 View Post
No. Legace is on fire right now.
I was clearly against the Manny signing and admitted I was wrong. He has played far better than I ever expected. I would make no effort to trade Manny, but I would trade him given an overpayment in return. Otherwise, there is no reason to. If you were offered a young top 3 to 5 forward for him, would you think about it? I would listen.....

I'm not saying he's worth it. I'm not saying that anyone will make an offer like that. I'm not saying I would pull the trigger on the deal either. I'm just saying that I would look into it further. If a deal will make the Blues a better team in the long run, then you have to try to make it work. Caps, contracts, and clauses are the reason I'm saying try to make it work.

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11-02-2007, 10:13 PM
  #28
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no

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Old
11-24-2007, 05:54 PM
  #29
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Thought I'd bring this one back to life since I was having this little debate in my head...I'm not saying trade Manny now....but, hypothetically, if Toivy continues to play as well as he has in his spot starts until the deadline do you think about trading Legace and getting picks/prospects for him? I'd argue yes, because I don't think he's leading us to the Cup(that was his rep in Detroit...regular season goalie only) and honestly I think the #1 role(of the future) is now Toivy's to lose(to Schwarz)

So lets hear(see) it, what would you do if you were in JDs shoes?

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11-24-2007, 07:58 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
Thought I'd bring this one back to life since I was having this little debate in my head...I'm not saying trade Manny now....but, hypothetically, if Toivy continues to play as well as he has in his spot starts until the deadline do you think about trading Legace and getting picks/prospects for him? I'd argue yes, because I don't think he's leading us to the Cup(that was his rep in Detroit...regular season goalie only) and honestly I think the #1 role(of the future) is now Toivy's to lose(to Schwarz)

So lets hear(see) it, what would you do if you were in JDs shoes?
Legace was their scapegoat. It's still a big NO.


Meh... it might just be me, but I don't completely trust Toivonen yet. Ask this question in a year.

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11-24-2007, 08:05 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
Thought I'd bring this one back to life since I was having this little debate in my head...I'm not saying trade Manny now....but, hypothetically, if Toivy continues to play as well as he has in his spot starts until the deadline do you think about trading Legace and getting picks/prospects for him? I'd argue yes, because I don't think he's leading us to the Cup(that was his rep in Detroit...regular season goalie only) and honestly I think the #1 role(of the future) is now Toivy's to lose(to Schwarz)

So lets hear(see) it, what would you do if you were in JDs shoes?
I don't think we could trade Legace even if we wanted. Looking at the trade for Cash and more specifically the waiving of Bryzgalov, I just don't think the market is there. It could open up if a team's #1 gets injured long-term near the deadline, but even then I don't see us trading Legace if we continue to play well and are in the playoff hunt. He's given us steady goaltending for the first time in... well... a while. If this was a year from now... I'd probably give it more serious consideration.

Playoff goalie? Maybe, maybe not. Detroit has a habit of blaming the goalie when their team can't score.

I think my main point is I'd rather have a good, seasoned goalie now than a 2nd/3rd pick in the upcoming draft...

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11-24-2007, 09:44 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
I don't think we could trade Legace even if we wanted. Looking at the trade for Cash and more specifically the waiving of Bryzgalov, I just don't think the market is there. It could open up if a team's #1 gets injured long-term near the deadline, but even then I don't see us trading Legace if we continue to play well and are in the playoff hunt. He's given us steady goaltending for the first time in... well... a while. If this was a year from now... I'd probably give it more serious consideration.
Playoff goalie? Maybe, maybe not. Detroit has a habit of blaming the goalie when their team can't score.

I think my main point is I'd rather have a good, seasoned goalie now than a 2nd/3rd pick in the upcoming draft...
Why would you give it more consideration next year, especially when the Blues are more likely to be competitive in the playoffs next year. That's when a steady goaltender would be the most important, not this year.

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11-24-2007, 09:48 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SneakerPimp82 View Post
Why would you give it more consideration next year, especially when the Blues are more likely to be competitive in the playoffs next year. That's when a steady goaltender would be the most important, not this year.
Well, by next year we'll have a better idea of where Toivonen and Shwarz stand in how they've progressed. But Legace should still play till his contract is over (maybe longer)

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11-24-2007, 09:57 PM
  #34
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I would not trade Legace. Toivonen has played good in just a few starts. This after struggling last year. I am not ready to pin our hopes on him yet. He needs to show more than just the ability to come in and play well in spot starts. Now, will he get the opportunity to show that? I believe so. Legace is not Luongo or Brodeur durable. He will play about 55-60 games, possibly 65. But Toivonen is not the guy to pins Stanley Cup hopes on. And I don't believe he has dethroned Schwarz as the future #1 yet either. Remember what happened the last time we pinned hopes on a young goalie with flashes of brilliance? (Turek, Johnson)

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11-24-2007, 10:59 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Blueski View Post
I would not trade Legace. Toivonen has played good in just a few starts. This after struggling last year. I am not ready to pin our hopes on him yet. He needs to show more than just the ability to come in and play well in spot starts. Now, will he get the opportunity to show that? I believe so. Legace is not Luongo or Brodeur durable. He will play about 55-60 games, possibly 65. But Toivonen is not the guy to pins Stanley Cup hopes on. And I don't believe he has dethroned Schwarz as the future #1 yet either. Remember what happened the last time we pinned hopes on a young goalie with flashes of brilliance? (Turek, Johnson)
What exactly has Schwarz done? Play hot-cold in the AHL? What has Toivy done? Had a good season, an injury plagued season, and a hot start....I'm not seeing a controversy....Toivonen has the clear inside track.

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Old
11-24-2007, 11:06 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
What exactly has Schwarz done? Play hot-cold in the AHL? What has Toivy done? Had a good season, an injury plagued season, and a hot start....I'm not seeing a controversy....Toivonen has the clear inside track.
It's pretty simple I think. Schwraz will be with us at the earliest next year. If anything you let Schwarz and Toivy play it out head to head for the job. Honestly I think it's going to get even more crowded next year cause I see Bishop signing. So that will make things packed in Peoria if Shwarz is to remain there.

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Old
11-24-2007, 11:53 PM
  #37
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no doubt NO...

anyways Legace around the league kinda has a bad rep...

i think if we are going to trade any goaltending talent it would be young talent with the salary cap the young talent would bring more in return imho....


Last edited by Tolcou15: 11-24-2007 at 11:57 PM. Reason: wrong word go note!!!
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Old
11-25-2007, 12:18 AM
  #38
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It's pretty simple I think. Schwraz will be with us at the earliest next year. If anything you let Schwarz and Toivy play it out head to head for the job. Honestly I think it's going to get even more crowded next year cause I see Bishop signing. So that will make things packed in Peoria if Shwarz is to remain there.
I agree with you, but I still think that Toivy has the inside track..he'll get the benefit of the doubt if both do relatively equally well....

Bishop would start at Peoria....dunno beyond that...

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11-25-2007, 09:49 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
What exactly has Schwarz done? Play hot-cold in the AHL? What has Toivy done? Had a good season, an injury plagued season, and a hot start....I'm not seeing a controversy....Toivonen has the clear inside track.
So Schwarz has played hot-cold, but you are ready to hand over the #1 tender spot to a guy with a sub-.500 record at the NHL level? Let Schwarz have the same opportunity that Toivonen has had and we will see who the better goalie is. Hannu had the good fortune of being in Boston's system where any talent is rushed to the NHL level. Here, like it or not, they have been patient with developing players, Perron being the obvious exception.

Don't think for a second that if Schwarz gets called up, he wouldn't be given every opportunity to start as much if not more than Toivonen until he proves otherwise.

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11-25-2007, 03:23 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Blueski View Post
Don't think for a second that if Schwarz gets called up, he wouldn't be given every opportunity to start as much if not more than Toivonen until he proves otherwise.
Yeah, but he isn't going to be called up.

And that's my point....Toivonen is with the team, Schwarz is not. That clearly gives Toivy an advantage vis-a-vis the starting role. He gets to play in the system and learn at the NHL level, and Schwarz gets to stay in Peoria....again.

I'm not arguing who the "better" goaltender is, I'm arguing that NHL experience gives Toivonen an advantage in a competition with Schwarz.

Some of you are very touchy....I don't think that statement is very controversial.

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11-25-2007, 06:52 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
Yeah, but he isn't going to be called up.

And that's my point....Toivonen is with the team, Schwarz is not. That clearly gives Toivy an advantage vis-a-vis the starting role. He gets to play in the system and learn at the NHL level, and Schwarz gets to stay in Peoria....again.

I'm not arguing who the "better" goaltender is, I'm arguing that NHL experience gives Toivonen an advantage in a competition with Schwarz.

Some of you are very touchy....I don't think that statement is very controversial.
No one's disagreeing with that.

The fact you suggested to trade Legace because Toivonen has had a good start is the problem.

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11-25-2007, 10:14 PM
  #42
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I'm not arguing that the Blues put Legace on the 'block' so to speak....my question originally, which was posed HYPOTHETICALLY, was IF another team came looking for a goalie at the deadline and offered a good deal would you take the deal and perhaps pick up another prospect that could(or could not) help the team for a decade or would you keep Manny and lose in the first two rounds as per the last 25 years or so....

Really the question is would you value Progress(picks) over Loyalty(not uprooting the veteran) or vice versa....basically would you be a 'cold' enough businessman to ship someone out the door regardless of what he has done just because you know he isn't the 'final answer'....

Though I would expect a black/white answer from a Legace fan....not that I'm saying that in a negative way....I feel the same way about my favorites, just trying to look past that in a pure business perspective.

Its all just talk anyway, as what the fans want or think has little to do with how the team is run(and thank god for that)

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11-26-2007, 08:44 AM
  #43
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We're dealing in hypotheticals so I'll give it a shot. Let me preface by stating that once a team gets into the playoffs, hypothetically every team has a shot at winning. If they don't make it in, they have zero percentage. Now I don't think we are anywhere near competing for the cup yet but we need strive towards making the playoffs. Those teams who are perpetually rebuilding loose their fanbase alot quicker than those who make the playoffs.

Hypothetically we move Legace at this trade deadline. This is assuming a team is going to want to take on the remains of the 1.8 for this season as well as the 2.5 for next season. The GMs in this league have pretty much all put themselves in a position where picking up salary like that is next to impossible. So unless we take back salary equally AND a teams starter goes down and they are desperate I don't see there being any easy matches in this league. Lets not forget the recent movement of Bryzgalov.

Finally hypothetically neither Toivonen or Schwarz have been told to be the #1 starter in the NHL. What if neither is the man or neither is ready. All of our advances with your Fs and cementing our D is for naught if the goaltender won't keep the puck out of the net. Re: Pittsburgh.

If there is a deal for Legace that would be just obviously stupid to pass up then yes, fine take the risk. Considering the going rate of goaltenders these days I say pass, hold onto Legace for this and next year and lets see where the chips are falling then.

Re: Bishop. It would be better for him to back up Schwarz next season (if that is the case) rather than be thrust into the starting position anyways.

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Old
11-26-2007, 09:56 AM
  #44
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Two things,what if Manny has more problems with his knee ? Schwarz is not ready yet to even be the backup which the team wouldn't do anyway. Besides even if he was that would leave CBT as the only goalie in Peoria. Cash and Riksman are both gone so it would make zero sense to move one of our two current goalies.

Secondly, when you have a proven starter you never trade him especially when he's the reason for most of your success. And with at least four rookies coming in next year it's imperative to have a starter that a young team can have confidence in.

I don't see any scenario where Manny is more valuable as a trade chip than as a Blue with his very reasonable contract and strong veteran play. He's a huge confidence boost to this team and I don't think that can be overstated.

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11-26-2007, 10:31 AM
  #45
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Another thing Re: Toivonen having the "upper hand" over Schwarz.

The Blues have always, from the get-go with Schwarz taken a "slow and steady" hand when it comes to his development. Toivonen (it seems to me) was brought in to stopgap the backup position. Cash couldn't be trusted to do the job, nor Sanford or CBT. They didn't want to waste the development time Schwarz would get being "the man" in Peoria by having him play backup in the bigs.

I think next season a Legace-Toivonen and Schwarz-Bishop tandem looks nice to me.

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Old
12-10-2007, 11:26 AM
  #46
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I know it was only one game.
I accept everyone's explanation that it wasn't Toivonens fault
I didn't see any of the game against Colorado or Edmonton but does anyone still wish to revisit this or just be thankful we have Legace?

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Old
12-10-2007, 01:03 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
I know it was only one game.
I accept everyone's explanation that it wasn't Toivonens fault
I didn't see any of the game against Colorado or Edmonton but does anyone still wish to revisit this or just be thankful we have Legace?
i am very thankful that Mr. Legace is the #1 netminder on this team. Last night, was even more proof that Toivonen is not a #1 netminder. Bad game or not. A #1 netminders job is to pick up his team if his defense in front of him is not playing up to there own standards. Hence Brewer was up to his old tricks last night, and Toivonen could not make up for Brewer's mistakes. I am not saying that is was all Brewer, but he is the one that stood out more than everone else.

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Old
12-10-2007, 06:44 PM
  #48
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Glenn Hall would have stunk last night with that defensive effort. If your opponent can shoot at will less than 10 feet from the goal and pick their shot, then no one is going to stop it. To call our defense pylons last night is no exagerration.

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