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Our Passing Is Horrible

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Old
12-13-2007, 09:46 AM
  #1
DontStepanMe
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Our Passing Is Horrible

Just curious if anybody else thinks this way.

I think that on one of these off days the Rangers should practice on nothing except passing.

The fundamentals of passing
How to pass around the boards
How to lead a player
How passes should go to open ice and have players anticipat where passes should go
Quick passes (one touch passses)
How to receive passes
How to set up one timers properly.
How to break out of your zone properly using passes
How to skate in the zone w/out the puck so you can get open for a pass
Lots and lots of passing, if you hold on to the puck for more than 3 seconds you do a suicide while receiving and giving passes at every line.

I mean like 8 hours of nothing but passing. Maybe if they understand how to pass properly it will help them intercept opposing teams passes more frequently and create odd man rushes.

We are the worst passing team in league history I think.


Last edited by DontStepanMe: 12-13-2007 at 11:20 AM.
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12-13-2007, 12:45 PM
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I agree with you, but some of it is the crappy ice they paly on in the east. On Sunday's game, which I was at, you'd see the puck move in a differnet direction after leaving the passer's stick. Same thing last night.

But, yeah, passing isn't all that great.

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12-13-2007, 12:52 PM
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WhipNash27
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Ya know, these guys are all pros who have been playing hockey their whole lives. I think that if they've made it to the NHL they are excellent passers, there has to be more to it then them not being good at passing or having to practice how to pass (one of the most basic things to do in hockey).

Therefore the first three things are all redundant for the players as well as how to receive passes and one touch passes. The other things are coaching and the one timer thing I think a few guys need help with that (Prucha). How passes should go to open ice and have players anticipate where passes should go, that's hockey sense and that can't really be taught. "How to break out of your zone properly using passes" that's purely coaching and having a proper break out play. "How to skate in the zone w/out the puck so you can get open for a pass" once again something that's either coaching as the players should have a system as to where they play with the puck or pure hockey sense.

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12-13-2007, 01:40 PM
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DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
Ya know, these guys are all pros who have been playing hockey their whole lives. I think that if they've made it to the NHL they are excellent passers, there has to be more to it then them not being good at passing or having to practice how to pass (one of the most basic things to do in hockey).

Therefore the first three things are all redundant for the players as well as how to receive passes and one touch passes. The other things are coaching and the one timer thing I think a few guys need help with that (Prucha). How passes should go to open ice and have players anticipate where passes should go, that's hockey sense and that can't really be taught. "How to break out of your zone properly using passes" that's purely coaching and having a proper break out play. "How to skate in the zone w/out the puck so you can get open for a pass" once again something that's either coaching as the players should have a system as to where they play with the puck or pure hockey sense.

Im sorry I disagree I believe you can teach players anything. Some are born with an innate sense but some you have to teach. Look Renney taught players how to play a defensive system well. They weren't all good at defense before they came to the Rangers.

Renney needs to teach some offense. How to create some plays. What you should do w/o the puck can be taught. If you keep focusing on fundamentals, and how to create offense than players will learn and come around to that.

Renney is a defensive minded coach and I think that it is showing as our offense looks like it has no direction. We need to get back to the fundamentals and passing is of the utmost importance. If you can't pass well you won't be able to score as much. It is becoming evident.

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12-13-2007, 01:40 PM
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DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
I agree with you, but some of it is the crappy ice they paly on in the east. On Sunday's game, which I was at, you'd see the puck move in a differnet direction after leaving the passer's stick. Same thing last night.

But, yeah, passing isn't all that great.
Don't blame the ice. Both teams play on the same ice. The other team almost always looks like the better passing team.

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12-13-2007, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Im sorry I disagree I believe you can teach players anything. Some are born with an innate sense but some you have to teach. Look Renney taught players how to play a defensive system well. They weren't all good at defense before they came to the Rangers.

Renney needs to teach some offense. How to create some plays. What you should do w/o the puck can be taught. If you keep focusing on fundamentals, and how to create offense than players will learn and come around to that.

Renney is a defensive minded coach and I think that it is showing as our offense looks like it has no direction. We need to get back to the fundamentals and passing is of the utmost importance. If you can't pass well you won't be able to score as much. It is becoming evident.
See I think that's more of Renney's system rather than the players not knowing the fundamentals. Renney is not creating the proper offensive system and that's why you're seeing forced passes, bad positioning, not enough shots, etc.

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12-13-2007, 02:15 PM
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DontStepanMe
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See I think that's more of Renney's system rather than the players not knowing the fundamentals. Renney is not creating the proper offensive system and that's why you're seeing forced passes, bad positioning, not enough shots, etc.
that's what my third paragraph said basically.

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12-13-2007, 02:36 PM
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When they lose their passing is bad, when they win its great.

You cant get 5 shutouts and lead the league in defense for most of the season if the passing is that atrocious.

I dont think passing is the problem.

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12-13-2007, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
When they lose their passing is bad, when they win its great.

You cant get 5 shutouts and lead the league in defense for most of the season if the passing is that atrocious.

I dont think passing is the problem.
i think bad passing is one of the main reason's their PP doesn't work. and why they don't have that good of scoring chances.

The best teams always seem to have the best passing. This is why you don't see any easy slam home goals. We don't pass well. it is why you see so many turnovers. We don't pass well. It is why our break out is so disgustingly bad. B/c we don't pass well. Our best passing dman is scratched (malik).

When you pass better you make other teams defensese scramble. When you don't pass well teams can pressure you more and create turnovers. If we passed well we would be scoring over 3 a game, and be would have less giveaways.

And SO's don't mean we passed well. SOs mean we played a solid d, and Hank probably played pretty spectacular.

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12-13-2007, 03:06 PM
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I agree. Rozsival's passes haven't been up to par lately at all.

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12-13-2007, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
i think bad passing is one of the main reason's their PP doesn't work. and why they don't have that good of scoring chances.

The best teams always seem to have the best passing. This is why you don't see any easy slam home goals. We don't pass well. it is why you see so many turnovers. We don't pass well. It is why our break out is so disgustingly bad. B/c we don't pass well. Our best passing dman is scratched (malik).

When you pass better you make other teams defensese scramble. When you don't pass well teams can pressure you more and create turnovers. If we passed well we would be scoring over 3 a game, and be would have less giveaways.

And SO's don't mean we passed well. SOs mean we played a solid d, and Hank probably played pretty spectacular.
Our PP doesn't work for 2 reasons. We don't always shoot when there's an open lane. We stand still (or Jagr does that useless rotation from the goal-line to the half-wall and back).

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12-13-2007, 03:37 PM
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I don't think the bad passing is just the Rangers. Look around the league. Can't tell you how many Devil games I have watched and it is the same thing. Passes into skates, passes a foot behind or ahead of a player. They can never seem to hit a player in stride.

I wonder if players are losing the fundamentals. In baseball a lot of players can't bunt or hit and run. In basketball they can't shoot foul shots anymore. I hope passing isn't becoming a lost art in hockey.

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12-13-2007, 03:39 PM
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You know what it is Rags...

there isn't anybody where the puck is passed. There doesn't seem to be a heck of a lot of chemistry out there (and it's very evident on the third line where you see guys going all over the ice and there's no connecting passes in the offensive zone).

Bretzky - on the PP - you're right. To add to that, the point guys aren't that great and Jagr's not making the best decisions. I remember Prucha making a decent play getting to the puck and kicking it out to Rozsival. Rozi got it to Jagr who turned it over. I need to watch it more but Dubi may be the problem there. And it's not really Dubi's fault. Much of the puck control is on Jagr's side, and that's where Dubi is. The two are often too close to each other or aren't trading off and moving enough. Also, Prucha needs to move a bit more too and switch-off with Dubi to keep the defense moving. Further, you see very few passes connecting for shots and very few opportunities for point shots. The setup is horrible. That's coaching. Prucha's job is to move back and forth and shoot/deflect the puck and get loose pucks when they come to him. Perhaps the coaches need to have him moving around a bit more and change the philosophy a bit.

The second PP looks like a PP, but the points aren't very good.

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12-13-2007, 03:40 PM
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DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by DevilSinceDayOne View Post
I don't think the bad passing is just the Rangers. Look around the league. Can't tell you how many Devil games I have watched and it is the same thing. Passes into skates, passes a foot behind or ahead of a player. They can never seem to hit a player in stride.

I wonder if players are losing the fundamentals. In baseball a lot of players can't bunt or hit and run. In basketball they can't shoot foul shots anymore. I hope passing isn't becoming a lost art in hockey.
I hope it doesn't either. But I have noticed it being leaguewide as well. I just think the Rangers are one of the worst at it.

Some analysts think it's because of the curved blades, an comp sticks or at least that's what I've heard and read.

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12-13-2007, 03:45 PM
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DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
there isn't anybody where the puck is passed. There doesn't seem to be a heck of a lot of chemistry out there (and it's very evident on the third line where you see guys going all over the ice and there's no connecting passes in the offensive zone).

Bretzky - on the PP - you're right. To add to that, the point guys aren't that great and Jagr's not making the best decisions. I remember Prucha making a decent play getting to the puck and kicking it out to Rozsival. Rozi got it to Jagr who turned it over. I need to watch it more but Dubi may be the problem there. And it's not really Dubi's fault. Much of the puck control is on Jagr's side, and that's where Dubi is. The two are often too close to each other or aren't trading off and moving enough. Also, Prucha needs to move a bit more too and switch-off with Dubi to keep the defense moving. Further, you see very few passes connecting for shots and very few opportunities for point shots. The setup is horrible. That's coaching. Prucha's job is to move back and forth and shoot/deflect the puck and get loose pucks when they come to him. Perhaps the coaches need to have him moving around a bit more and change the philosophy a bit.

The second PP looks like a PP, but the points aren't very good.
Everything you have said is completely accurate. But if you look at the 2nd PP they seem to be better at passing. Look how good their passing was when they scored the two PP goals a couple games ago. It was crisp and it was quick. And it led to more shooting lanes and the net result was more goals.

If you look at Detroit you will see that they can really pass well. That leads to some great setups and some real easy goals they get. We need to work on the fundamentals.

Also Renney has to realize that this should be an offensive team, that needs to be extremely aggressive and forecheck w/ 2-3 people and keep on the attack constantly and have bodies moving constantly. We are not good when we just sit back and try to do a semi-trap.

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12-13-2007, 03:59 PM
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When I said points...

I meant point persons...

they do pass well because there is someone where they pass. They play a simple, fundamental PP. Move around, guy in front, shoot the puck. All those guys can and will handle the puck. On the Jagr PP, they can't get the puck to Jagr soon enough. When Nylander was here he'd take the puck and skate with it to the other side of the ice and Jagr would move around accordingly. Dubi doesn't take the puck and skate with it and that should be his job and that's a big piece that is missing. Perhaps that's missing on the top line too. Dubi's good at digging for the puck, but he's doesn't skate much with the puck and doesn't get the defense moving around too much so they can key on or near Jagr.

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12-13-2007, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
i think bad passing is one of the main reason's their PP doesn't work. and why they don't have that good of scoring chances.

The best teams always seem to have the best passing. This is why you don't see any easy slam home goals. We don't pass well. it is why you see so many turnovers. We don't pass well. It is why our break out is so disgustingly bad. B/c we don't pass well. Our best passing dman is scratched (malik).

When you pass better you make other teams defensese scramble. When you don't pass well teams can pressure you more and create turnovers. If we passed well we would be scoring over 3 a game, and be would have less giveaways.

And SO's don't mean we passed well. SOs mean we played a solid d, and Hank probably played pretty spectacular.
I agree that on the Powerplay the passing is horrendous. Too many forced, telegraphed passes. Not quick enough, indecisive...

Agreed there.

To say that passing well and playing good defensively (SO's) aren't correlated you're wrong.

Maybe in the offensive zone or in the nuetral zone the passing might not spring players well or put them in a good position to get scoring chances, but on defense its a different story. You have to get out of your zone and you have to work partner to partner behind the net and in front of it, with and without pressure several times a game.

The one trait that stands out to me about Girardi and Stall is that under pressure they can find a teammate or do a little poke pass or get out of trouble pretty well.

The rest of Rangers D are pretty decent at this for the most part - and you especially have to be good with this when you are playing against good forechecking teams like the Islanders. The Capitals last night exposed that in a way. not all team will do that. If every team forechecked the Rangers with 3 men up then of course the passing out of the defensive zoen is going to suffer.

If you give the Rangers time and space they are fine in the defensive zone. But if you're argument is that the Rangers are a bad passing team when the pressure is put on, then you've pointed out what a lot of posters here have been stating since the first Islander-Ranger game.

But thats a double edged sword for those teams who play like that, and not many do. Point in case, when the Islanders didnt forecheck as much in the last tilt the Rangers beat them 4-2. Its all about work, if a teams on your ass your more liekly to screw up passing.

But I agree on most accounts OUTSIDE the defensive zone that the passing hasnt been A+ - thats for sure.

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Old
12-13-2007, 06:41 PM
  #18
DontStepanMe
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I agree that on the Powerplay the passing is horrendous. Too many forced, telegraphed passes. Not quick enough, indecisive...

Agreed there.

To say that passing well and playing good defensively (SO's) aren't correlated you're wrong.

Maybe in the offensive zone or in the nuetral zone the passing might not spring players well or put them in a good position to get scoring chances, but on defense its a different story. You have to get out of your zone and you have to work partner to partner behind the net and in front of it, with and without pressure several times a game.
This is where I see things differently. I take it as soon as you have the puck, no matter what zone it is in you are on the offensive. Therefore I don't see a bad pass in the defensive zone as a breakdown defensively. I see it as a breakdown offensively.

It seems that we were trying to say the same thing in a different way. So I get why you are saying it is correlated moreso than I think it is and I agree w/ you now. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

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