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Who is a good "in-league" scout?

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12-27-2007, 08:14 AM
  #26
Top Corner2
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Part of the problem with our pro scouting has been that we have not had (or been willing to give up) players that really interest teams. We have been struggling to contend. Most of the deals in the last couple of years have been done to clean up more than to aquire a good player.


This is going to change as we have a huge talent pool of prospects, and soon Gainey & co. will have some tough decisions to make and some valuable youngsters to deal. Hopefully we can aquire something good in return.

In my opinion the best deals we have made lately are the deals we haven't made.... and that's what Gainey has finally brought to this team: patience and trust in the kids.

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Old
12-27-2007, 08:28 AM
  #27
goalchenyuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Because he's the pro-scout, it's his responsibility. It was also discussed on the Team 990 by Pierre McGuire and others.

edit: But I love how you jump to the defence of the local guy and the opportunity to bash Gainey. It's classic #ZAMBONI#
where did i bashed Gainey ? i said that you put the blame on the shoulders of Gauthier without knowing if Gainey even ask him about those players .

Don't you realise that Gainey saw those players during all their career , and knew who they were . Did he ask something to Gauthier , did he make the decision from what Gauthier or Carbo or whoever said ? WE DON'T KNOW .

And to end , if you think that i jump to defend the LOCAL guys , maybe YOU should stop to ATTACK them . Just count all your posts againts Gauthier , Carbo and Ribeiro lately .

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12-27-2007, 08:38 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Altoid View Post
Check the books my friend, Randy Sexton was the Ottawa GM that drafted Daigle and turned the franchise around, he hired Jacques Martin and traded for Redden. Redden stinks now but he was an All Star defenceman and Olympian at one time. Also, Pierre Gauthier was asst GM in Anaheim from 92 to 95 and was adamant about drafting Paul Kariya with the 4th overall pick, an NCAA college player out of Maine was thought to be a bad move when GMs didn't use first round picks to select NCAA players, particularly from schools that didn't have big hockey programs. The current Ottawa GM is Bryan Murray - I'm not taking anything away from him, he did a good job but the mold was set by Gauthier.
Streit was recommanded by Gauthier .
Gainey also said that he didn't knew Huet when he made the trade with LA . He said that he just asked to his men ( Gauthier and Savard )

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12-27-2007, 08:40 AM
  #29
Erik Estrada
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Why sometimes it's better to leave things the way they are...An extreme case of great scouting and terrible pro-transactions (the Mad Mike NY Isles). (from Bob McCown's recent book "100 Greatest Hockey Arguments"):

"It's well documented that great teams are built primarily through the entry draft. Which is why a perusal of the 1990s selections of the New York Islanders certainly leads one to believe that this team should have been challenging for the Stanley Cup each year by the end of the decade.
"The Islanders, like all teams, had their share of misses. But this team can't blame its scouting staff for its on-ice woes. The quality of players selected by Long Island during the 1990s is impressive, a list that includes Scott Lachance, Zigmund Palffy, Darius Kasparaitis, Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan McCabe, Tommy Salo, Brad Lukowich, Wade Redden, J.P. Dumont, Zdeno Chara, Roberto Luongo, Eric Brewer, Tim Connolly and Taylor Pyatt, right up to Rick DiPietro and Raffi Torres, who were taken in 2000.
"...And yet, from 1993-94 to 2003-04, the years during which the Islanders should have been reaping the benefits from this crop of draftees, they missed the playoffs seven times and were eliminated in the first round four others.

Why? Mad Mike Milbury.
"...Had Milbury simply stayed out of the kitchen and worried about managing his assets instead of looking to upgrade them, the Islanders might have been the best team in hockey. And I would argue that they would have been perennial Stanley Cup contenders by the turn of the century..."

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12-27-2007, 08:56 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altoid View Post
Check the books my friend, Randy Sexton was the Ottawa GM that drafted Daigle and turned the franchise around, he hired Jacques Martin and traded for Redden. Redden stinks now but he was an All Star defenceman and Olympian at one time. Also, Pierre Gauthier was asst GM in Anaheim from 92 to 95 and was adamant about drafting Paul Kariya with the 4th overall pick, an NCAA college player out of Maine was thought to be a bad move when GMs didn't use first round picks to select NCAA players, particularly from schools that didn't have big hockey programs. The current Ottawa GM is Bryan Murray - I'm not taking anything away from him, he did a good job but the mold was set by Gauthier.
I just read my own post and noticed a mistake - I meant to write that Gauthier replaced Sexton and turned the franchise around with moves like hiring Martin and trading for Redden. The way I wrote it reads that Sexton turned the franchise around which is completely wrong, he's the guy that hired Dave Allison as head coach

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Old
12-27-2007, 11:45 AM
  #31
Pere Noel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Corner2 View Post
Part of the problem with our pro scouting has been that we have not had (or been willing to give up) players that really interest teams. We have been struggling to contend. Most of the deals in the last couple of years have been done to clean up more than to aquire a good player.
I can't agree with this... I think that Ribeiro is a prime example. While he sort of had a mix-bag attitude, he had an undeniable superior talent... that could have fetch a younger prospect for a team in need of a centerman... and lots of teams need and needed centermen.

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Old
12-27-2007, 01:05 PM
  #32
waffledave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
where did i bashed Gainey ? i said that you put the blame on the shoulders of Gauthier without knowing if Gainey even ask him about those players .

Don't you realise that Gainey saw those players during all their career , and knew who they were . Did he ask something to Gauthier , did he make the decision from what Gauthier or Carbo or whoever said ? WE DON'T KNOW .

And to end , if you think that i jump to defend the LOCAL guys , maybe YOU should stop to ATTACK them . Just count all your posts againts Gauthier , Carbo and Ribeiro lately .
You wanted to turn the failures of Gauthier onto Gainey. Gauthier is the head pro scout. He is responsible for scouting these guys and knowing if they'd fit on the team. It was his responsibility and he ****ed up. Simple as that.

Yes, Gainey has the final call. He deserves parise and blame for the good and bad signing and draft picks. But that doesn't mean Gauthier isn't responsible either.

Any time we aquire someone in the NHL, it's Gauthier's department.

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Old
12-27-2007, 02:02 PM
  #33
Pere Noel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
You wanted to turn the failures of Gauthier onto Gainey. Gauthier is the head pro scout. He is responsible for scouting these guys and knowing if they'd fit on the team. It was his responsibility and he ****ed up. Simple as that.

Yes, Gainey has the final call. He deserves parise and blame for the good and bad signing and draft picks. But that doesn't mean Gauthier isn't responsible either.

Any time we aquire someone in the NHL, it's Gauthier's department.
I have to agree with Waffledave to a certain extent.

Gainey is able to draft well, with the help of Timmins & co.

Gainey is not able to trade well, with the help of Gauthier & co.

Therefore, it appears that Gauthier is at fault to a certain degree; Gainey can't on one side, leverage well one of his guy in one department, and on the other side, not being able to do so with another department.

Where Gainey is at fault though, is to not find a good addition or replacement to Gauthier.

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