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What The Canadiens Are Lacking From 2002....

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Old
04-07-2004, 10:36 AM
  #26
Bruwinz37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am
. The only guy no longer around who may be missed is Bill Guerin, a hard-hitting, scoring money player.

.
Well money is the only thing you have right about Guerin.....he is greedy and loves money. Hard hitting? Popular misconception. As far as clutch goals, well getting stoned by Theo on a clear breakaway wasnt too *money*.......and of his 34 goals this year 6 were scored against teams that are 6th seeds or higher, and at least 2 of them were scored against Vancouver.......and we all know who plays goal for them.

Bill Guerin=overrated.

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04-07-2004, 10:44 AM
  #27
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I don't think the Habs necessarily have to put Begin/Juneau out against Thornton. Koivu has played against him in the past. It's not ideal size and reach wise, but Koivu may see some of #19 in Boston. Gilmour played well in 02 but they were careful to keep him out of bad matchups, much like I suspect they'll do with Ribeiro.

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Old
04-07-2004, 11:05 AM
  #28
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the best thing begin can do is hit joe...something every team should learn by watching tape is that the best way to hold down thornton is to leave him alone. once you hit joe, you are in big big trouble. joe is the sleeping giant, and begin will only help us by waking him

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Old
04-07-2004, 12:01 PM
  #29
Jeff from Maine
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Same Scale Used For Everyone?

Guerin may well be overrated, but if we are to use goals and points against Top 6 teams as the measuring stick, we are then making statements about more guys than just him.

For example....

Patrice Bergeron

- Vs. Top 6 playoff teams 4 g 9 a 13 pts
- Vs. Non playoff teams 10 g 12 a 22 points
- ES vs. Top 6 3 g 3 a 6 points


Mike Knuble scored 15g 9a against non and 6g 16a vs. playoff teams
Joe Thornton scored 14g 33a against non and 9g 17a vs. playoff teams


Now, I dont believe that ANY of the guys that I just mentioned are overrated. Just saying if we rate one guy with one measuring stick, its only fair to rate everyone by that same stick, right....

Later

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Old
04-07-2004, 12:09 PM
  #30
Bruwinz37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff from Maine
Guerin may well be overrated, but if we are to use goals and points against Top 6 teams as the measuring stick, we are then making statements about more guys than just him.

For example....

Patrice Bergeron

- Vs. Top 6 playoff teams 4 g 9 a 13 pts
- Vs. Non playoff teams 10 g 12 a 22 points
- ES vs. Top 6 3 g 3 a 6 points


Mike Knuble scored 15g 9a against non and 6g 16a vs. playoff teams
Joe Thornton scored 14g 33a against non and 9g 17a vs. playoff teams


Now, I dont believe that ANY of the guys that I just mentioned are overrated. Just saying if we rate one guy with one measuring stick, its only fair to rate everyone by that same stick, right....

Later
Well gee, I am not comparing Bill Guerin, a 9 million dollar player who has been in the league for 10 year...the kid is 18. He will eclipse what Guerin has done in his career by the time he is 28.

The point is that Guerin is not, was not, and never was worth that type of dough because he is not an elite player and does not step it up when the competition is at its best.

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Old
04-07-2004, 12:15 PM
  #31
Bruwinz37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff from Maine

Mike Knuble scored 15g 9a against non and 6g 16a vs. playoff teams
Joe Thornton scored 14g 33a against non and 9g 17a vs. playoff teams


Now, I dont believe that ANY of the guys that I just mentioned are overrated. Just saying if we rate one guy with one measuring stick, its only fair to rate everyone by that same stick, right....

Later
And just because I felt the need to check some of your work I picked out one item to proof......Thornton's goals against playoff teams. He scored 12, not 9. I dont have time to proof read the rest now, but perhaps I will later.

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Old
04-07-2004, 12:20 PM
  #32
Jeff from Maine
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I Agree About The Money

He isnt, nor is ANY player, worth 9 million per year. But I dont begrudge him for taking what was offered to him.

My point in bringing up the numbers is that their are a number of players who fatten up their numbers against the lesser lights and losers of the NHL.

Glen Murray is one of the few B`s (at just a quick glance) who scored more against the top 6 teams than against the others.

And we know his history of choking in the "clutch".

I wont go just by numbers....I`ll also consider comments by guys who play with guys. And Thornton, Murray, Guerin and Bergeron are all guys who teammates love playing with.

All of those things together (numbers, reputation among teammates) are enough to make me believe that they are all very good players and teammates.

Later

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Old
04-07-2004, 12:34 PM
  #33
Jeff from Maine
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You Are Correct

BIG mistake on my part.

I forgot that Nashville made the playoffs as the West 8.

I went back and checked everything...

It adds NOTHING to Bergeron...
It adds 1 goal and 1 assist to Knuble...
It adds 3 assists to Muzz.

Makes Muzz and Knubles look even better! Knuble actualy scores 24 points against playoff clubs and 22 against non!

Sorry for the mistake....go ahead and check the rest....directly from the ESPN stats pages for each player.

Later

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Old
04-07-2004, 01:14 PM
  #34
Fish on The Sand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
I, for one, am glad that Audette isnt there anymore.
Finally, something both Habs and B's fans can agree on


Last edited by Fish on The Sand: 04-07-2004 at 01:18 PM.
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