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Old
01-02-2008, 10:20 PM
  #1
rawrmachine
 
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Our Powerplay...

is absolutely terrible. I can't believe we lost this game tonight. Absolutely disgusting.

I'm afraid that the boys won't be making the playoffs this year, not with a powerplay that bad.

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01-02-2008, 10:25 PM
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The talent is there, it's just not clicking. We are still a playoff team!

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01-02-2008, 10:28 PM
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That puck was jumping all over the place in the 3rd period. Johnson didn't look good on the point, 1st game that I have seen him play where his point play wasn't there.

1. As for improving it. Start by keeping Perron on the 1st unit - he wants the puck and has the ability to carry it. Move Johnson to the other point - I would like to see him ripping shots on a one timer from a pass from the other point.

2. Fire the PP coach. He isn't doing his job at all.

3. We had some chances to win this game. Played great 5 on 5.....

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01-02-2008, 10:30 PM
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Frenzy is right. EJ was invisible tonight, and with no Wagner......

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01-02-2008, 10:31 PM
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Strange, from an Oilers fan standpoint your PP looked dangerous all night.

Which is a lot more than I can say about our PP tonight -- the PP goal we did score in OT, well, most teams score on OT 4-on-3 PPs, and Penner was more lucky than anything to have that puck bounce to him.

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01-02-2008, 10:34 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
Strange, from an Oilers fan standpoint your PP looked dangerous all night.

Which is a lot more than I can say about our PP tonight -- the PP goal we did score in OT, well, most teams score on OT 4-on-3 PPs, and Penner was more lucky than anything to have that puck bounce to him.
A lot of passing around the edge of the zone looks nice, but when we do it too much we're inept on the PP.

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01-02-2008, 10:34 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by DarthVTEC View Post
Frenzy is right. EJ was invisible tonight, and with no Wagner......
You also have to look at the 2nd unit. It consisted of Mike Johnson, Perron, and Mayers or Backes. (No offensive punch what so ever).

While I think the best line tonight was the Mayers, McClement, Stempy line - I wonder if they souldn't just put it out there and see what happens.

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01-02-2008, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DarthVTEC View Post
Frenzy is right. EJ was invisible tonight, and with no Wagner......
I'd have to disagree. EJ was the only force on the PP, he actually had multiple shots on goal. He did have some questionable giveaways, but he is a rookie. I'd have to scratch my head for having Backes on the PP though. If anything I'd say Boyes was invisible all night. The breakaway chance aside, he was mishandling pucks and shooting wide all night. This team's PP is just flat out horrible. They just need to get back to fundamentals, such as putting the puck on net (cough Backman, cough Boyes) This game should've been 5-2 Blues in regulation. Going 0-7 on the PP just tells other teams to go ahead and take penalties b/c we won't make you pay for it.

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01-02-2008, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DarthVTEC View Post
A lot of passing around the edge of the zone looks nice, but when we do it too much we're inept on the PP.
We're frustrated with our PP too, but imo passing and waiting for a higher percentage shot is often better than shooting wildly into a defenseman's shinpads or forcing a low percentage cross crease pass.

Anyways, good game guys. I think you guys have a decent shot at the playoffs.

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01-02-2008, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike6749 View Post
I'd have to disagree. EJ was the only force on the PP, he actually had multiple shots on goal. He did have some questionable giveaways, but he is a rookie. I'd have to scratch my head for having Backes on the PP though. If anything I'd say Boyes was invisible all night. The breakaway chance aside, he was mishandling pucks and shooting wide all night. This team's PP is just flat out horrible. They just need to get back to fundamentals, such as putting the puck on net (cough Backman, cough Boyes) This game should've been 5-2 Blues in regulation. Going 0-7 on the PP just tells other teams to go ahead and take penalties b/c we won't make you pay for it.
Yea, invisible is probably to harsh. Maybe I was thrown off by the severe drop-off in tonight's game compared to the Det. game. I can't wait until he is a steady force every shift and a Norris winner!

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01-02-2008, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
We're frustrated with our PP too, but imo passing and waiting for a higher percentage shot is often better than shooting wildly into a defenseman's shinpads or forcing a low percentage cross crease pass.

Anyways, good game guys. I think you guys have a decent shot at the playoffs.
There has to be a mix. We have more success throwing it on net and waiting for Boyes, Walt, Backes, etc. to pounce. Early in the season Kariya was leading the way in our use of cross-ice passing on the PP, but it stopped working. When our PP is simple, we score.

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01-02-2008, 11:07 PM
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All I can say is that their performance on the power play was disgraceful. When you have the man advantage you should be able to carry the puck into the offensive zone (EVERY time). How many times did they dump the puck in and give up possession? They also do that too much at even strength. The Blues give up the puck too often.

The statement above is correct. If their power play continues like this, they WON'T make the playoffs.

Why is it that they save up all their "desire" and "killer instinct" for Detroit and a few of the other best teams, and can't beat the weaker teams, even at home???

It's not so difficult on the power play. While the puck is being passed around, the others continue moving to pull the defenders with them and create lanes for the shooter to shoot through, the players down low create screens. Why can't they get shots on goal, create screens, keep skating hard, anticipate each other's moves, etc.? It can't be because they haven't had enough time playing together. They've been this bad for 3 years, now.

At least, Wagner, MacDonald and Jackman should be back on Saturday. They'd better start a winning streak. Unfortunately, I still think they'll have to obtain a good skating, puck-carrying, passing, and shooting defenceman in a trade, and, possibly another scoring forward, if they want to do anything in the playoffs (or, possibly, even make it to the playoffs) this season.

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01-24-2008, 12:00 PM
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Back in the days of Al, the opposing teams PK would always leave a forward high in the zone to prevent him from winding up. These days, the PK'ing forwards have zero fear of that happening so they stay low in the zone and disrupt more forwards passes and clog more lanes. My solution? Start taking as many point shots as possible. Since no one thinks our point shots are dangerous(and rightfully so) they have more room to work with. If we start throwing EVERYTHING on net and keep it simple, we can get our PP out of the gutter!

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01-24-2008, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by DarthVTEC View Post
Back in the days of Al, the opposing teams PK would always leave a forward high in the zone to prevent him from winding up. These days, the PK'ing forwards have zero fear of that happening so they stay low in the zone and disrupt more forwards passes and clog more lanes. My solution? Start taking as many point shots as possible. Since no one thinks our point shots are dangerous(and rightfully so) they have more room to work with. If we start throwing EVERYTHING on net and keep it simple, we can get our PP out of the gutter!
I agree, but who is gonna do this. Brewer and Jax's shots never make it through. EJ is the only one that is good at it. Walker does have a bomb, but not sure I want to see him out there. We could put Lee and Brad up there, but that seems dangerous.

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01-24-2008, 12:29 PM
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We might as well be dumping it in and retreating to our zone if we are going to take point shots without hoping of hitting the net. The PP is about puck control if you aren't capitalizing on it, you need to control the puck.

We definately need a dangerous shot from the point because Darths right. We have no point threat so the PK mucks up the middle and we lose the 1 man advantage.

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01-24-2008, 12:54 PM
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I'm trying to recall...when Backman had his glorious chance on the walk-in from the blue line last night...were we 5-on-4 or 5-on-5? In moderation, I think that's a strategy that we should employ more frequently on the PP. If one D walks in and pulls a PK'ing forward with him, it can open up lanes to (a) have the puck carrier walk off the half-wall to the slot for a shot/pass option, or (b) have the other D swing over to the near point for a hypothetically clearer shooting lane.

Someone mentioned in the GDT that many of our #1 unit PP's last night consisted of PK & AMac passing the puck to one another, and basically occupying the same 5 square feet of ice along the half-boards...that's clearly not getting it done. Bombing away from the blue line might shake something loose, if we could count on Walt or Backes to clean up the garbage rebounds. Walt showed flashes last night, but too many times this year he's simply boxed glorious rebound chances.

I'd just like to see us move the puck more confidently & make the box move around a little bit. How often do we reverse the puck on the PP and operate off the other wall for a few seconds? (Not often.) We make a lot of passes from the goal line to the hash marks, then back, then back again...those passes make it easy for the PK to hem the puck along the wall. We need to be passing east-west, getting the box moving side-to-side a bit...that's when the diagonal passing lanes (low-to-high or vice versa) open up and the goalie has to move laterally to keep his angle.

Now, why can't we do that? It seems to me that we can, if we try...but it seems like the players out there are trying to play within the constraints of strict instructions..."Paul, Andy...we need the puck on your stick...make something happen." "OK, Coach."

I guess I'm building (very slowly, I admit) toward a key question: What is Coach Bennett instructing these guys to do? And why, given our PP woes, haven't we been coaching the guys to try something different? I don't think personnel is the primary issue...it's a contributing factor (particularly on the point), but I think the players don't get all the blame here. I'd like to see some more creative, innovative coaching to try to get us out of this funk.

Wow...nice rant, Mitch...sorry guys, that got a bit long-winded.

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01-24-2008, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
We might as well be dumping it in and retreating to our zone if we are going to take point shots without hoping of hitting the net. The PP is about puck control if you aren't capitalizing on it, you need to control the puck.

We definately need a dangerous shot from the point because Darths right. We have no point threat so the PK mucks up the middle and we lose the 1 man advantage.
Great points.

What the hell are we setting it up for if all the shots don't even get on net for a chance to score let alone a rebound?

Good point as well Darb.

Boyes has been the only bright spot as of late on the point.

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01-24-2008, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Zundo View Post
I agree, but who is gonna do this. Brewer and Jax's shots never make it through. EJ is the only one that is good at it. Walker does have a bomb, but not sure I want to see him out there. We could put Lee and Brad up there, but that seems dangerous.
I agree, the vast majority of the point shooters can't get it through w/any regularity. However, the tic-tac-toe passes NEVER work, so I kind of think we'd eventually get more results with the simple throw-it-on-net approach. If our point-shooters start having success getting it through, teams will adjust by clogging the points, freeing up our shifty forwards down low.

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01-24-2008, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DarthVTEC View Post
I agree, the vast majority of the point shooters can't get it through w/any regularity. However, the tic-tac-toe passes NEVER work, so I kind of think we'd eventually get more results with the simple throw-it-on-net approach. If our point-shooters start having success getting it through, teams will adjust by clogging the points, freeing up our shifty forwards down low.
I think we are seeing eye-to-eye on this, so in case you didn't see it here are my thoughts on the PP form another thread.

One thing I have noticed lately watching other teams power plays is that they play one of two styles or if capable a combination of the two. Murray is correct in saying that most teams have similar setups. The difference in a good power play, imo, is either capable of 1. quick passes and/or unexpected movements (ie making the box move to free up lanes) or screens the goalie well with good blue line/ or high slot shooters. So, the fault I see with our PP is the decisions we make with the puck. We are either slow to move the puck...waiting to make things happen or we are not setting up screens when our sniping players have the puck. Either way we are way too predictable with the puck. As much as I hate to say this..watch Detroit's PP...they do all of these well when everyone is healthy.

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01-24-2008, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zundo View Post
I think we are seeing eye-to-eye on this, so in case you didn't see it here are my thoughts on the PP form another thread.

One thing I have noticed lately watching other teams power plays is that they play one of two styles or if capable a combination of the two. Murray is correct in saying that most teams have similar setups. The difference in a good power play, imo, is either capable of 1. quick passes and/or unexpected movements (ie making the box move to free up lanes) or screens the goalie well with good blue line/ or high slot shooters. So, the fault I see with our PP is the decisions we make with the puck. We are either slow to move the puck...waiting to make things happen or we are not setting up screens when our sniping players have the puck. Either way we are way too predictable with the puck. As much as I hate to say this..watch Detroit's PP...they do all of these well when everyone is healthy.
You're right. The predictable decisions are a HUGE contributing factor! So, do we try something radical to create a spark? Or do we just keep at it, hoping things turn around? The latter choice doesn't seem plausible and the former has basically already been done.(Boyes, PK on the points)

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01-24-2008, 02:05 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by DarthVTEC View Post
You're right. The predictable decisions are a HUGE contributing factor! So, do we try something radical to create a spark? Or do we just keep at it, hoping things turn around? The latter choice doesn't seem plausible and the former has basically already been done.(Boyes, PK on the points)
I was thinking about it this morning and as far as radical change goes..man thats tough. I would like to see Andy Mac and PK split up. They are both great playmakers and do some different things, but together they just get comfortable doing the same thing. Not to mention they should be setting up our scorers not themselves.
So hows this for radical..

Stemp KT PK - PK and TK had some chemistry on the first line earlier in the year. Stemp getting setup by PK
EJ Sal Sal has a decent shot maybe EJ can set him up, when he doesnt have the shot? Not going to lie Sal scares me on the PP though....just trying to be radical!

Boyes Backes Andy Mac
Backman Walker -Backman is a better passer than shooter and Walker has a bomb...again scarry seeing Walker out there.

D parings and forward lines are interchangable.

I would like to see us try to use the area behind the net like Turgeon used to do...not sure it will work though...but what has.

Interested in hearing the constructive criticisms here. Please note this is me just thinking radical.

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01-24-2008, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Zundo View Post
I was thinking about it this morning and as far as radical change goes..man thats tough. I would like to see Andy Mac and PK split up. They are both great playmakers and do some different things, but together they just get comfortable doing the same thing. Not to mention they should be setting up our scorers not themselves.
So hows this for radical..

Stemp KT PK - PK and TK had some chemistry on the first line earlier in the year. Stemp getting setup by PK
EJ Sal Sal has a decent shot maybe EJ can set him up, when he doesnt have the shot? Not going to lie Sal scares me on the PP though....just trying to be radical!

Boyes Backes Andy Mac
Backman Walker -Backman is a better passer than shooter and Walker has a bomb...again scarry seeing Walker out there.

D parings and forward lines are interchangable.

I would like to see us try to use the area behind the net like Turgeon used to do...not sure it will work though...but what has.

Interested in hearing the constructive criticisms here. Please note this is me just thinking radical.
I like what you've done here up front, Zundo...

PK & AMac are the set-up men to work the half-wall.
KT & Backes are the bangers to win puck battles in the corners & stand in front for screens, deflections, loose change.
Stempy & Boyes are the snipers to find an open area for a quick shot.

If we're really going for radical change, I'll make the following suggestions for the pointmen:

EJ (Unit 1) and Mayers (Unit 2) are your bombers. EJ, as stated early & often, can get PP shots on net from the point. Jammer has a good hard shot...he can miss the net spectacularly on occasion, but maybe it wouldn't be as bad if he's shooting from more of a set position? These guys would also be your defensive presence to protect against shorthanded rushes the other way. (I know, I know...but we're being radical here...stay with me.)

Perron (Unit 1) and Backman (Unit 2) are your "rovers." Once set up in the zone, they'll occupy a spot at the point...but have the freedom to cut to the net, handle the puck a bit to open up passing lanes, etc. Imagine the puck moving from the half-wall to the near point, and swung to the far point. Generally, the far pointman will either shoot or toss it back to the near point (bomber). What if he had the freedom to roam a bit with the puck & try to do something creative?

I guess what I'm proposing is that you'd have kind of a set-up man down low and up top...two passers, two shooters, one guy parked at the top of the crease.

I fully acknowledge that this will NEVER happen (can you imagine Coach Murray putting EJ & Perron at the point on the #1 PP unit?). This configuration begs for SHG against. But then again...our standard set-ups haven't been too effective at preventing those lately, either...

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01-24-2008, 04:09 PM
  #23
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Gotta say I like your back pairings. They would at the vary least be interesting.

Can't believe I forgot to put Perron on one of the units....

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01-24-2008, 04:12 PM
  #24
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There are various strategies and combos you can try, but most of all, I really think the Blues need to loosen up. For most of the year, the most creative players on the powerplay have been Perron and GASP Rucinsky. They move around, help out other players, and they try to make plays. Most of the other guys just get the puck and hold it until a guy gets close and then they dish it to somebody else - and if they're lucky, the receiver of the pass isn't also covered.
Whatever they need to do to loosen up, they ought to do it. I'm not sure what it would take. Put McClement out there sometimes. Try EJ in Boyes' normal position, send Brewer to the net, let Perron quarterback it, stop doing the low-rightside-cycle OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

Tkachuk has been really really bad lately. He doesn't move his feet, he doesn't pay attention to the puck, and his passes have been off the mark for most of the season. I think he should be benched in general, so I'm all for keeping him off the powerplay. He used to be good at deflecting the puck, but when was the last time you saw him even TRY?

If you aren't going to put Stempniak out there in a shooting position, put him in front of the net. He is strong. And he has really good deflection and rebound capabilities. Or just put him in the middle slot so he can drift back for a shot or move in when a shot is taken from the outside.

I agree stop putting McDonald and Kariya out at the same time. That limits the powerplay severely because the other forward (usually Backes, but if not, Tkachuk) absolutely MUST be in front of the net - McDonald and Kariya aren't going there anytime soon. And the positions in which they are most effective are the exact same spots. McDonald is shiftier, but Kariya has a better shot. Hell, Boyes used to send really nice passes to Kariya on the powerplay but he's thrown that idea out the window because every time Kariya would ignore the pass and skate to a place where he isn't open or bobble the reception. More reason that they need to loosen up, read the play rather than having set plays, and be willing to try something, even if it's just a shot along the ice with two guys going to the net.

Don't let Jackman shoot the puck. At least not unless he's below the faceoff dots. He is utterly incapable of getting a shot through one defender, let alone more traffic. He shouldn't ever be on the powerplay, but I concede that it's just going to happen sometimes.

Notice how almost all of these issues are personell instead of strategies to break up the box and get the puck on net. Almost every last guy on the team is gripping their sticks too tightly, waiting for somebody else to do something, hesitating, and just not paying attention. I don't know what it will take, but somebody needs to remind these guys that they are allowed to be creative sometimes. It's okay to try a lower percentage SHOT, but low percentage passes are a no-no. If the puck is coming to you, you don't just have to wait for it. You can figure out what you're going to do with it so that you don't just stand there and let the opponent take it (I'm looking at you, Paul Kariya). Most of all, get open! That's probably the biggest Achilles Heel of the team. A player will get possession of the puck, have room to set up, but it doesn't matter because two defenders are on top of him by the time any of his teammates are open for passes. It seems like so many guys just skate to a spot instead of reading the play in real-time.

Once the players are doing those basic things, then we can talk about strategy and set plays. But they need to become comfortable, active, and more creative before the rest of the stuff will matter.

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01-24-2008, 04:18 PM
  #25
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We have noone shooting from the point, and hardly anyone screening the goalie. Detroit uses that tactic to great effect. TK's best asset (his fat ass) is wasted playing him at center, he needs to be in front of the net. If we would actually shoot from the top, and I don't mean the big, booming, telegraphed shot, I mean a quick one, opposition pk's will have to adjust, thereby opening up actual passing lanes that do not exist for us now.

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