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The official Toni Rajala thread

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Old
01-04-2008, 12:00 AM
  #101
CertifiedPublicGuin
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Originally Posted by Finnerican View Post
Again I probably don't know alot of what I'm talking about but I'm still kinda weary. He's very talented and extremely smart. Can that help him draft day? Even if he is still 5'9?
Personally (I'm not a GM/scouting staff, but), if he's pushing 160ish and is still only around 5'9, I'd take him as high as his skills he should be taken. Seeing what Kane has done seems to show that, at least for some time you can do some damage based on the player's skills. If he is still impressing the hell out of people at that point, come the draft, then he should be taken very high, possibly ahead of some of the bigger boys.

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01-04-2008, 01:13 AM
  #102
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Is Pulkkinen any taller? Granlund?

Finland needs to stop producing these midgets.

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01-04-2008, 02:34 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Finnerican View Post
He'll be 17 in February......
how so..15 to 17 in a month, leap year? lol

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01-04-2008, 03:43 AM
  #104
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Preferably Kuchin, Paajarvi and Haula. All 5'11" - 6'4". How could he compete?
Just for info, Kuchin is just 176 cm(5'9). He's 180 lbs though.

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Team Russia was also a lot more skilled on the whole than team Finland, as always.
Maybe they were more skilled, but surely not a lot more. Look, Finland was very small at this tournament, but they brought a skilled team.

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but Spartak Moscow forward Kirill Kabanov (6-1, 172) also finished with 11 points and is 16 months younger than Rajala. In fact, he was the second-youngest player in the tournament (7/16/92 b-day) and racked up two goals, nine assists and 28 PIMs in five games. Much more hyped Russian forward Maxim Kitsyn had only four points in Russia's five games, and Kabanov is likely to shoot up the 2010 draft boards after this impressive performance.
As I've said, I think Kitsyn is overrated. I've heard some very good things about Kabanov. Though Pullkinen was more impressive, I think. He scored 5 goals and Kabanov scored only 2.

Speaking of points, it's hard to compare results on such tournament. They have played with different opponents.

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01-04-2008, 03:46 AM
  #105
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Is Pulkkinen any taller? Granlund?
Pulkkinen is 5'10. Granlund is 5'9. Haula is 5'11. Donskoi is 5'11. Nattinen is 6'2.

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01-04-2008, 06:34 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Canuck71 View Post
I havent had the chance to seem him but for anyone who has could you tell me his strengths and weaknesses? TSN has him listed as 5'9 148 lbs? At that size he must be one incredibely smooth player.
I have seen Rajala 10+ times this year against 20ish players in finnish A-juniors SM-liiga. His strenghts are in the offensive end mostly. He is good skater, maybe not being fastest in the planet, but can circle well and having good balance. He has good wrister, can deke and sees game well. Can make passes, but isn't afraid of try to shoot either. He is quite good backchecker as well, can rip off player off puck without hitting him, just using his stick well.

Problems are clearly size, since he is even small to compared other 16-17y players, not even mentioning compared to ~20y or seniors. He can get off situations with smart playing, but it still affects obviously his game. Another one is his problems when it comes to open up game in the own end. At least in A-juniors he has had problems in own area when opponents have been giving him pressure. It comes down better in neutral zone, but he is most comfortable clearly with&without puck in offensive zone. Marking in own zone is problem sometimes as well, he seems like to try to leave his own D(when playing at wing, as he is) and maybe jumping inside of game maybe a bit too soon. Maybe that's being young etc.

Lastly about attitude, which at least in the rink seems like to be really good. He is not taking too long shifts, padding own players shinpads after shift.

His PK I haven't seen, since that's not his role in his A junior team. Would think he could get decent at least in that area too. His PP playing is quite good already, still haven't seen too much about it either. He could play it a bit simplier, but there is a lot of potential, since having quite good wrister as I mentioned and skills&vision to make both passing&shooting plays.

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Originally Posted by Finnerican View Post
My biggest concerns are

1. SM-Liiga Senior league
Toni Rajala has been playing great in the SM-Liiga B and A junior leagues, but his Swedish counterparts for the 2009 draft are already in their senior leagues in SEL. Now SM-Liiga is alot different than SEL, specifically with the fact that SM-Liiga tends to attract alot of international players for some reason, so roster space may be limited.
That's totally incorrect. SEL have a lot more foreigner players than finnish SM-liiga. There is actually more just finnish players in Sweden than there is total foreigners in Finland. Reason Rajala not to play in Finland against seniors is obvious. He doesn't have size to do it. This is his first year in A-juniors and he is very small already in there.

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Originally Posted by Bonkers View Post
I'd say being 6-1/172 instead of 5-9/148 is more important than being a year younger. Team Russia was also a lot more skilled on the whole than team Finland, as always.
I'm quite sure not. At least not top end talent. Finland outshooted Russia 46-23 and finnish team were really small. Top talents are highly skilled, etc. Overall talent limit might be going to Russia, which is obvious, but not top end talent.

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Originally Posted by Garl View Post
Speaking of points, it's hard to compare results on such tournament. They have played with different opponents.
Yeah and you can always get some free assists playing in good line, etc. So it would be better to see players as well.


Last edited by Joretus: 01-04-2008 at 06:52 AM.
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Old
01-04-2008, 07:03 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by EroSennin View Post
Finland needs to stop producing these midgets.
Yeah we should drag them out of the rinks and throw them to soccer fields!

We don't produce not that much of quality so these "midgets" are ok by me

Any new Oskar Osalas coming up in the future?

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01-04-2008, 07:50 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnerican View Post
1. SM-Liiga Senior league
Toni Rajala has been playing great in the SM-Liiga B and A junior leagues, but his Swedish counterparts for the 2009 draft are already in their senior leagues in SEL. Now SM-Liiga is alot different than SEL, specifically with the fact that SM-Liiga tends to attract alot of international players for some reason, so roster space may be limited. I don't know if that's an excuse right now but I hope it's not hurting him developement-wise. (ISS and some other """scouting servise""" (I am not a big fan of ISS) has him in the latter part of the first round, could be because of this).
Maybe he should come and play in the CHL. He's eligible for this year's import draft no?

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01-04-2008, 08:08 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Joretus View Post
I have seen Rajala 10+ times this year against 20ish players in finnish A-juniors SM-liiga. His strenghts are in the offensive end mostly. He is good skater, maybe not being fastest in the planet, but can circle well and having good balance. He has good wrister, can deke and sees game well. Can make passes, but isn't afraid of try to shoot either. He is quite good backchecker as well, can rip off player off puck without hitting him, just using his stick well.

Problems are clearly size, since he is even small to compared other 16-17y players, not even mentioning compared to ~20y or seniors. He can get off situations with smart playing, but it still affects obviously his game. Another one is his problems when it comes to open up game in the own end. At least in A-juniors he has had problems in own area when opponents have been giving him pressure. It comes down better in neutral zone, but he is most comfortable clearly with&without puck in offensive zone. Marking in own zone is problem sometimes as well, he seems like to try to leave his own D(when playing at wing, as he is) and maybe jumping inside of game maybe a bit too soon. Maybe that's being young etc.

Lastly about attitude, which at least in the rink seems like to be really good. He is not taking too long shifts, padding own players shinpads after shift.

His PK I haven't seen, since that's not his role in his A junior team. Would think he could get decent at least in that area too. His PP playing is quite good already, still haven't seen too much about it either. He could play it a bit simplier, but there is a lot of potential, since having quite good wrister as I mentioned and skills&vision to make both passing&shooting plays.



That's totally incorrect. SEL have a lot more foreigner players than finnish SM-liiga. There is actually more just finnish players in Sweden than there is total foreigners in Finland. Reason Rajala not to play in Finland against seniors is obvious. He doesn't have size to do it. This is his first year in A-juniors and he is very small already in there.



I'm quite sure not. At least not top end talent. Finland outshooted Russia 46-23 and finnish team were really small. Top talents are highly skilled, etc. Overall talent limit might be going to Russia, which is obvious, but not top end talent.



Yeah and you can always get some free assists playing in good line, etc. So it would be better to see players as well.
This is an excellent post, I agree with Joretus even with some of the details. I really like Rajala as a player, he is very good but I have concerns about his size. I DOUBT that he is 5.09. For me he looks more than 5.08 and if you watch him in street-clothes he looks so unbelievable fragile, you would never think he is a hockey-player, he looks like a violine-player or a ski-jumper and I don't want to think what happens if his very small head collides with Phaneuf or Pronger. It will be very interesting to see how he develops and how he can translate his game to the pro-level.

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Old
01-04-2008, 08:28 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Jokeri View Post
We don't produce not that much of quality so these "midgets" are ok by me
Yeah, if only there was a National Midget Hockey League and the World Midget Hockey Championships, Finland could dominate in the future.

And no, I'm not being serious. But I do think it's a definite problem. Finland finally produces some talent (or at least we have real hype again) and they're not even tall enough to suck my nipples. I'm not saying they need to be big, just bigger. Like 6'1"-6'3". The 92s might still grow a bit, but I don't think Rajala will. Not more than an inch or two at most.

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01-04-2008, 09:23 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Willie For Captain View Post
how so..15 to 17 in a month, leap year? lol
he is 16 now... he is born on 03.29.91. so finnerican is right. he turns 17 in march.

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01-04-2008, 11:06 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Willie For Captain View Post
how so..15 to 17 in a month, leap year? lol
He was born February 29, 1991. He'll be in the 2009 draft.
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Originally Posted by Savi View Post
Maybe he should come and play in the CHL. He's eligible for this year's import draft no?
Sounds like a good idea, right? If you're Canadian/North American. The problem is that would be such a slap in Finland's face if he left. He's the first thing in a while that Finland can get excited about and for him to slap their system in the face and deem the CHL better for him (as much as that is true) that would be very disrespectful for him to defect to Canada... But I say a little extra prayer each night that he does go to the CHL. That would be great for his developement. But not too many 17 year old kids want to leave their homeland. I'm suprised Helenius, Voracek and Moller did (it was Moller right?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sashulitshka View Post
This is an excellent post, I agree with Joretus even with some of the details. I really like Rajala as a player, he is very good but I have concerns about his size. I DOUBT that he is 5.09. For me he looks more than 5.08 and if you watch him in street-clothes he looks so unbelievable fragile, you would never think he is a hockey-player, he looks like a violine-player or a ski-jumper and I don't want to think what happens if his very small head collides with Phaneuf or Pronger. It will be very interesting to see how he develops and how he can translate his game to the pro-level.
Size was my biggest concern too. I don't know if he can use his slippery-ness in the NHL against those big brute forced D-man and O-men.
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Originally Posted by redwingsfan View Post
he is 16 now... he is born on 03.29.91. so finnerican is right. he turns 17 in march.
Actually it's 2.29.91 according to http://www.dobberhockey.com/index.ph...d=220&Itemid=1 , but I don't know if that's accurate.

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Old
01-04-2008, 11:34 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Finnerican View Post
Sounds like a good idea, right? If you're Canadian/North American. The problem is that would be such a slap in Finland's face if he left. He's the first thing in a while that Finland can get excited about and for him to slap their system in the face and deem the CHL better for him (as much as that is true) that would be very disrespectful for him to defect to Canada... But I say a little extra prayer each night that he does go to the CHL. That would be great for his developement.
Rajala hardly thinking about politics, but his own development. He is already playing every game solid minutes in Ilves A-juniors, which is same level as CHL(or at least very close to), so it's not like he is playing in league which won't give him competition. As mentioned, he is playing against 20y players, who are even 20cm longer than he is and 30kg heavier. CHL could be good his development, but playing in Ilves won't be anything worse as long as he is getting enough ice time(as he is).

There is a lot more training in Finland than in CHL, which is more about playing. Some suits for others and some for others. And as addition he could be playing against seniors as well, since you can play over here for both juniors&seniors in same team. And of course as addition being so long away from home can be bad for junior player. And of course some players want to go school as well, which is obviously much easier in Finland for finnish born player.

So all in all, that's incorrect again.

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01-04-2008, 11:36 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Joretus View Post
Rajala hardly thinking about politics, but his own development. He is already playing every game solid minutes in Ilves A-juniors, which is same level as CHL(or at least very close to), so it's not like he is playing in league which won't give him competition. As mentioned, he is playing against 20y players, who are even 20cm longer than he is and 30kg heavier. CHL could be good his development, but playing in Ilves won't be anything worse as long as he is getting enough ice time(as he is).

There is a lot more training in Finland than in CHL, which is more about playing. Some suits for others and some for others. And as addition he could be playing against seniors as well, since you can play over here for both juniors&seniors in same team. And of course as addition being so long away from home can be bad for junior player. And of course some players want to go school as well, which is obviously much easier in Finland for finnish born player.

So all in all, that's incorrect again.
I'm not seeing how what I said is in any way incorrect. It may not be the TRUE reason but what I say does bear some validity.

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01-04-2008, 11:43 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Finnerican View Post
I'm not seeing how what I said is in any way incorrect. It may not be the TRUE reason but what I say does bear some validity.
So you think Rajala(or other juniors) are being at home because they don't want to slap finnish federation/nation? That's totally incorrect. Simple reasons are which I mentioned. Finnish junior leagues are quite good for development(at least for top talents), there is straight path forward&backward from juniors to seniors and back.

There is more training, there is chance to go finnish school and you can be home.

Those are reasons being in Finland, not political reasons.

Reason for Helenius went to NA are simple as well. Tampa wanted him over. As addition he wouldn't have been 1st goalie in Finland either.

edit:Btw. can't remember any of finnish players who went to CHL being in NHL atm. Osala might be first, but it really hasn't been better suited league for finnish players development so far.


Last edited by Joretus: 01-04-2008 at 11:50 AM.
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01-04-2008, 11:53 AM
  #116
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I wasn't putting anyone down -- Pulkinnen was more impressive, but he's also nearly seven months older than Kabanov -- I was just saying what Kabanov has done is incredibly impressive. Eleven points against even crap teams is eye-opening given his age -- and he had five points against Germany, which got an otherwordly goaltending effort all tournament from Philipp Grubauer.

To break down Kabanov's scoring efforts:

12/30 vs. USA -- no points
12/31 vs. Germany -- one goal, four assists
1/1 vs. Atlantic -- no goals, one assist
1/2 vs. West -- no goals, one assist
1/3 vs. Finland -- one goal, three assists

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01-04-2008, 11:55 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Sashulitshka View Post
This is an excellent post, I agree with Joretus even with some of the details. I really like Rajala as a player, he is very good but I have concerns about his size. I DOUBT that he is 5.09. For me he looks more than 5.08 and if you watch him in street-clothes he looks so unbelievable fragile, you would never think he is a hockey-player, he looks like a violine-player or a ski-jumper and I don't want to think what happens if his very small head collides with Phaneuf or Pronger. It will be very interesting to see how he develops and how he can translate his game to the pro-level.
Do people realize that he is 16 years old? He has time to get more weight and muscle. He never will be a big player for sure, maybe 5.10-11 and 180lbs.
Anyway, the size issue has really got out of hand, especially in North-America. I remember when Crosby was playing his first year in QJHML and people talked more about his size than his skills. It really pissed me off, because if the skills are there the size isnt really an issue. Same thing here in Rajala's case. He's amazing talent, almost a lock for Top 10 in 09 draft. Forget about the size, focus on skill.
NHL teams have hopefully figured out that with the new rules also the smaller players can also be effective, like Kane, St. Louis, Crosby.

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01-04-2008, 12:03 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by FinProspects View Post
Do people realize that he is 16 years old? He has time to get more weight and muscle. He never will be a big player for sure, maybe 5.10-11 and 180lbs.
Anyway, the size issue has really got out of hand, especially in North-America. I remember when Crosby was playing his first year in QJHML and people talked more about his size than his skills. It really pissed me off, because if the skills are there the size isnt really an issue. Same thing here in Rajala's case. He's amazing talent, almost a lock for Top 10 in 09 draft. Forget about the size, focus on skill.
NHL teams have hopefully figured out that with the new rules also the smaller players can also be effective, like Kane, St. Louis, Crosby.
Yeah, ppl seem like to be still in the old-NHL and want only big prospects and ppl being 200cm in 16y. Rajala have time to get bigger&stronger and I think at least Garl and I had good agreement that at this stage it should be about other areas of game more. Maybe draft-day(which is still 1,5y way) you can then focus a lot more about measurements, but atm it should be about other parts of the game more and less about size. At this stage size can give edge for other players over others, but as they are 15-17y old guys still developping size shouldn't giving too much edge.

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01-04-2008, 12:07 PM
  #119
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Anybody know the next international tournie he'll be playing in?

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01-04-2008, 12:12 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by PuckheadMcGillycuddy View Post
-- and he had five points against Germany, which got an otherwordly goaltending effort all tournament from Philipp Grubauer.


12/31 vs. Germany -- one goal, four assists
On a sidenote, Grubauer was pulled after the second period in that particular game, so that was a game he wasn't so otherworldly as you said with a 66,6 sv%. Still a great performance by Kabanov...and Grubauer in other games.

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01-04-2008, 12:13 PM
  #121
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Anybody know the next international tournie he'll be playing in?
Most likely U-18 5 nations in february. That's held in Finland and there will be top European nations(Czech, Russia, Sweden and Finland) + USA.

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01-04-2008, 12:18 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by FINNtastic View Post
On a sidenote, Grubauer was pulled after the second period in that particular game, so that was a game he wasn't so otherworldly as you said with a 66,6 sv%. Still a great performance by Kabanov...and Grubauer in other games.
I meant the tournament as a whole, not just that one game. He finished with a .909 save pct. (fourth best in the tourney) despite playing behind what can charitably be described as a porous defense.

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01-04-2008, 12:18 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Jokeri View Post
Any new Oskar Osalas coming up in the future?
HIFK's 93-born Sami Salminen(apparently he's a former jokeri) has played well in CSM so far and is already 190cm tall.

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Anybody know the next international tournie he'll be playing in?
Either U17 four nations in Czech (8-10 Feb.) or U18 five nations in Finland (6-10 Feb.).


Last edited by Tormentor: 01-04-2008 at 12:26 PM.
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01-04-2008, 12:27 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Tormentor View Post
Either U17 four nations in Chech (8-10 Feb.) or U18 five nations in Finland (6-10 Feb.).
Since it will be last tournament before U-18 world Champs I think Rajala will be playing with U-18 again. He has played whole year with them except this tournament.

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01-04-2008, 12:31 PM
  #125
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Since it will be last tournament before U-18 world Champs I think Rajala will be playing with U-18 again. He has played whole year with them except this tournament.
I agree that it's most likely that he will.

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