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Old
01-01-2008, 05:44 PM
  #176
Trafalgar Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG View Post
Pretty much half of those players were not even drafted by Edmonton . All those players were drafted by Toronto and if you really think chorney is better then Kulemin your smoking something. Perhaps if we traded Sundin this year and get a few top notch prospects you may have a better view point. I mean the Leafs unfortunately have not been able to trade franchise players for prospects every year or two
gagner cogliano hemsky chorney petry schremp nash...

as for the kulemin comment, chorney is the ncaa's top d-man.

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01-01-2008, 05:46 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by HockeyStar View Post
LMAO

You really know your stuff don't you?

You compile a list that's arranged in an order of comparison that pretty much tries to embarrass the Leafs prospect pool/young players, then when someone inevitably complains you start whining about how we can't trade?

You're a smart one.
i picked players at the same level of developement...

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Old
01-01-2008, 06:29 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
gagner cogliano hemsky chorney petry schremp nash...

as for the kulemin comment, chorney is the ncaa's top d-man.
So was Mike Mottau what's your point?

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01-01-2008, 06:38 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
gagner cogliano hemsky chorney petry schremp nash...

as for the kulemin comment, chorney is the ncaa's top d-man.
And Kulemin was the RSL's MVP

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Old
01-01-2008, 06:40 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
I had not heard about Kulemin beforre this thread


Try paying attention to other teams' prospects once in a while, okay?

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Old
01-02-2008, 09:35 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by ATG View Post
So was Mike Mottau what's your point?
alot of busts came as mvps of the russian super league as well.

as well, chorney was the captain of team USA at the WJC last year and played as the #2 d-man behind only erik johnson on a team that boasted the likes of jack johnson. im not saying he's better than jack johnson, but he certainly has proved himself as one of the nhl's top prospects.

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01-02-2008, 06:02 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
i picked players at the same level of developement...
Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
recap...
gagner >>>wellwood Gagner's an 18 year old rookie and wellwood's in his 3rd year
cogliano >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steen Again, a rookie and a 3rd year player?
nilsson > stajan
penner >>> ponikarovski
hemsky > anthropov how about considering the type of player too?
chorney > kulemin ?!? this is just a completely random guess
smid > stralman smid's a lot further along in his development, and he is better right now
gilbert >> white know nothing of gilbert but white is and 23 years old and realy underrated
pitkanen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(to be continued)>>>>>>>>coliacovo we just got colaiacovo back, why don't you judge based by performance on ice and watch him if you can? he's #8.
nash+schremp+o'marra+plante etc. > pogge+williams+earl+kronwall etc.


Last edited by Happy Fan: 01-02-2008 at 06:08 PM.
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Old
01-02-2008, 06:15 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nshort View Post
Anton Stralman(SEL allstar defender, best player on his team in WJ), Nikolai Kulemin(RSL MVP at age of 22), Justin Pogge(Gold medal WJC, 7-1-4 with Marlies this year). Rask was traded because Toronto management thought they would be contenders with better goaltending, a mistake, but hindsight is 20-20. Side note: Love the caps lock, really accentuates your point
Don't even bother trying to talk to Oiler fans, this is the same fanbase that thought they could score 300 goals last year lmfao

I'll say this, it's funny a team that has won about 10 games in regulation over the last calendar year has fans that are talking smack.

And anyone that puts Sheldon fricking Surray in front of McCabe, is not even worth discussing hockey with

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Old
01-02-2008, 06:23 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG View Post
Half of these posts are uber hilarious. We have Oiler fans downgrading Leaf prospects though they have had higher draft picks for the last decade besides the year they made the finals. The Leafs have not had a pick in the top 10 in a dozen years whether we traded it or kept it is irrelevant in that debate. The Oilers because the team was loaded with such great prospects had to basically throw money at other teams restricted free agents because no major FA wanted to play there besides Souray who they had to throw a bunch of money at more then anyone else was offering I bet. The heart and soul of the team Ryan Smyth was traded out of Edmonton because of a few thousand dollars. Should I go on?as much as Leafs management is a joke they look like Donald Trump compared to the Oilers.

As for the Oilers fans boosting their prospects,you can thank the team for tanking as that was how you got Gagner,disgraceful.
First good post this thread. I guess a team that continues to miss the playoffs for most of the past 10 years might just have a better prospect pool than a team that from 1998-2004 was a top 10 team in the NHL. Wow thanks for reminding me!

The difference is 10 years later (other than one cinderella run) what have you exactly done, other than continue to miss the playoffs?

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01-03-2008, 09:45 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
First good post this thread. I guess a team that continues to miss the playoffs for most of the past 10 years might just have a better prospect pool than a team that from 1998-2004 was a top 10 team in the NHL. Wow thanks for reminding me!

The difference is 10 years later (other than one cinderella run) what have you exactly done, other than continue to miss the playoffs?
in a few years the tables should turn

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Old
01-03-2008, 09:53 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by HockeyStar View Post
Really?
okay fine, if you want we can make a few comparisons ourselves, i pick 12 oilers and you pick leafs that are better than them to try and humiliate our organizations. You can only pick players at a maximum 2 years older than them (you can pick younger players) or a maximum of 2 years of extra experience (you can pick players with less experiece)

hemsky
gagner
pitkanen
cogliano
gilbert
penner
nilsson
smid
chorney
nash
petry
schremp

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Old
01-03-2008, 10:01 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
First good post this thread. I guess a team that continues to miss the playoffs for most of the past 10 years might just have a better prospect pool than a team that from 1998-2004 was a top 10 team in the NHL. Wow thanks for reminding me!

The difference is 10 years later (other than one cinderella run) what have you exactly done, other than continue to miss the playoffs?
Toronto Maple Laff wishlist:


A. Try making the playoffs
B.Try to make the stanley cup finals once and a while
C. Win the stanley cup in colour T.V.
D. Get rid of Mats "led the leafs no where" Sundin

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Old
01-03-2008, 10:18 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
Don't even bother trying to talk to Oiler fans, this is the same fanbase that thought they could score 300 goals last year lmfao

I'll say this, it's funny a team that has won about 10 games in regulation over the last calendar year has fans that are talking smack.

And anyone that puts Sheldon fricking Surray in front of McCabe, is not even worth discussing hockey with
coming from the team who thinks stralman can win a norris trophy and that sundin could be an mvp and the team who's coach thought he had the best offense in the league and the gm who wouldn't trade steen as part of a package for pronger or JVR. Considering this is the team that has never won the Stanley Cup since the expansion draft era. The only reason you even won those 13 cups were because you had 5 f***in opponents. the oilers have won the cup with 20 opponents and made the cup finals with 29 opponents. btw souray has more goals than mccabe in less games without scoring on himself. mccabe feeds off of kaberle's offense.
shooting: souray >>>>>>>>>(to be continued)>>>>>>>>>>>>> mccabe
passing: souray < mccabe
hitting: souray > mccabe
grit: souray > mccabe
leadership: souray > mccabe
stick control: souray < mccabe
pass stopping: souray > mccabe
endurance: souray < mccabe

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01-03-2008, 10:24 AM
  #189
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This has gotten so far off topic it's rediculous. What does drafting and prospects have to do with a trade of Kilgour for ?

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01-03-2008, 10:30 AM
  #190
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=449512

Like they say, every stereotype has an ounce of truth.

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Old
01-03-2008, 07:00 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
Don't even bother trying to talk to Oiler fans, this is the same fanbase that thought they could score 300 goals last year lmfao
Do you always generalize about fanbases? How many Oiler fans said they were going to score 300 goals?

Out of all the dumb posts in this thread, yours takes the cake. Seriously, 2 years ago some Oilers fans had unrealistic expectations and all of a sudden youre generalizing about the whole fanbase? Please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
I'll say this, it's funny a team that has won about 10 games in regulation over the last calendar year has fans that are talking smack.
Oilers have one more win this season than the Leafs do and are two points behind. Neither team should be talking smack with the way their seasons are going.

But most "smack talking" is in regards to the prospects, which was brought up by the claim that the Leafs are top 5. Instead of generalizing about fanbases and trying to bring up team records, maybe you should actually respond to the smack talking. Pimp your prospects if you actually want to respond to whats being talked about in the thread.

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Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
And anyone that puts Sheldon fricking Surray in front of McCabe, is not even worth discussing hockey with
Well, most people in the posted poll picked Souray, so maybe you should stick to discussing hockey with other homers so your opinions wont be challenged.

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Old
01-04-2008, 12:03 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
coming from the team who thinks stralman can win a norris trophy and that sundin could be an mvp and the team who's coach thought he had the best offense in the league and the gm who wouldn't trade steen as part of a package for pronger or JVR. Considering this is the team that has never won the Stanley Cup since the expansion draft era. The only reason you even won those 13 cups were because you had 5 f***in opponents. the oilers have won the cup with 20 opponents and made the cup finals with 29 opponents. btw souray has more goals than mccabe in less games without scoring on himself. mccabe feeds off of kaberle's offense.
shooting: souray >>>>>>>>>(to be continued)>>>>>>>>>>>>> mccabe
passing: souray < mccabe
hitting: souray > mccabe
grit: souray > mccabe
leadership: souray > mccabe
stick control: souray < mccabe
pass stopping: souray > mccabe
endurance: souray < mccabe
First, how did you measure this exactly?McCabe is an Alternate on his team, Souray is not(No, I don't care how long he's been there).

All offense isn't by scoring goals, McCabe has much more points

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01-04-2008, 12:11 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Nshort View Post
First, how did you measure this exactly?McCabe is an Alternate on his team, Souray is not(No, I don't care how long he's been there).

All offense isn't by scoring goals, McCabe has much more points


Actuaclly he was for a while, mostly while Moreau was injured. (please ignore him getting beaten by Datsyuk )

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01-04-2008, 09:59 AM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nshort View Post
First, how did you measure this exactly?McCabe is an Alternate on his team, Souray is not(No, I don't care how long he's been there).

All offense isn't by scoring goals, McCabe has much more points
first of all I gave passing to bryan mccabe, 2nd of all souray has played like 20 games less than mccabe so no sh** mccabe will get more points than souray, as well souray does have an alternate on his jersey for home games, sorry to spoil your party.

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01-04-2008, 11:52 AM
  #195
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Somebody might have said this, but, if not, I'd like to see NJ pick up Tarnstrom. We aren't getting squat in the way of offense from the blue line. He'd be a lighter version of Rafalski, but even that's a step up right now. Andy Greene hasn't turned into the assist man many thought he would.

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01-04-2008, 06:01 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Nshort View Post
First, how did you measure this exactly?McCabe is an Alternate on his team, Souray is not(No, I don't care how long he's been there).

All offense isn't by scoring goals, McCabe has much more points
Much more or many more?

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01-04-2008, 09:00 PM
  #197
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Much more or many more?
much more

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01-04-2008, 09:27 PM
  #198
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much more
Ahh, ok. Just checkin'

Neither side is budging on this argument. Let's see in 5 years who is better; that's the only way to really solve this.

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Old
01-04-2008, 09:57 PM
  #199
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wow as a hab fan I'm loving this debate


I'm going to chime in on Souray, having seen him play for 6+ years. And of course McCabe 8 times a year. Aside from those atrocious give-aways i will say that McCabe is probably a little better defensively, while souray is a little better offensively. In the end they are very equivalent caliber D with Souray being a better fighter but McCbe less injury prone. thus why the 'market' gave them very similar contracts.

as per prospect pools; i'd say the oil has more top end talent, but the leafs do have some promising prospects, no game breakers though...pogge could end up being an elite player. stralman doesn't look NHL ready and i know very little about kulemin, but as a fan of a team with lots of russian (and Belorussian) prospects, they can really be hit or miss...kulemin will not be ovechkin and may only be a prezhogin....who knows?

the oil's prospects are cutting their teeth in the NHL; leafs can't say that...while stajan and steen are solid two way forwards they don't have the ceiling of a gagner or cogliano.

to me welwood is going nowhere...way too small and soft..and doesn't have the speed smaller guys need to succeed. he definitely has vision and skill, but if he doesn't have a sundin or poni (big wingers/center) on his line he's useless.


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01-05-2008, 10:25 AM
  #200
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wow as a hab fan I'm loving this debate


I'm going to chime in on Souray, having seen him play for 6+ years. And of course McCabe 8 times a year. Aside from those atrocious give-aways i will say that McCabe is probably a little better defensively, while souray is a little better offensively. In the end they are very equivalent caliber D with Souray being a better fighter but McCbe less injury prone. thus why the 'market' gave them very similar contracts.

as per prospect pools; i'd say the oil has more top end talent, but the leafs do have some promising prospects, no game breakers though...pogge could end up being an elite player. stralman doesn't look NHL ready and i know very little about kulemin, but as a fan of a team with lots of russian (and Belorussian) prospects, they can really be hit or miss...kulemin will not be ovechkin and may only be a prezhogin....who knows?

the oil's prospects are cutting their teeth in the NHL; leafs can't say that...while stajan and steen are solid two way forwards they don't have the ceiling of a gagner or cogliano.

to me welwood is going nowhere...way too small and soft..and doesn't have the speed smaller guys need to succeed. he definitely has vision and skill, but if he doesn't have a sundin or poni (big wingers/center) on his line he's useless.
THANK YOU , FINALLY A NON LEAF/ OILER TO BREAK THE DEBATE OPEN AS A SPECTATOR.

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