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Old
01-05-2008, 12:09 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by God Is Avery View Post
especially with Sanguinetti coming up.
Do you seriously expect BS to just step into 18+ minutes a night? Lets start with making the team out of camp.

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Originally Posted by God Is Avery View Post
Basically our entire defense aside from Marc Staal may possibly be retooled this summer anyway.. so unless Rozsy really steps it up come playoff time, he's expendable.
Expendable, eh? who do you intend on replacing him in as far as FA defenseman? Orpik? Say bye to a slew of offense. Who else is leaving? Malik, Mara, and Strudwick? So 3/4 of our top four are staying and the bottom pairing+1 may change. That isn't exactly "retooling."

The truth of this whole matter, is that its the front 9 that are going to get a big makeover come next season. This is going to turn into Drury and Gomez' team very quickly. Does Avery fit into that, is the real question. Right now he gets bye because certain Rangers need the kick in the ass he can provide to get their game going. The next generation of Rangers may not need this sort of motivation.

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01-05-2008, 12:10 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick View Post
I love what Avery brings, but he has missed alot of time due to injury and doesn't show up on the stat sheet enough to earn 3.5 million per.
That's my feeling. If the price and contract length is right, who wouldn't want Avery back. Overpaying a guy for too long at the expense of addressing major holes in the lineup is a trap you just can't fall into.

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01-05-2008, 12:12 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by VisionQuest View Post
Do you seriously expect BS to just step into 18+ minutes a night? Lets start with making the team out of camp.
You have to look ahead, because no doubt Rozsvial is going to want a multi-year deal. If BS is ready to join the team in '09, how does a 3 or 4 year deal for Rozsival effect that?

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01-05-2008, 12:14 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
That's my feeling. If the price and contract length is right, who wouldn't want Avery back. Overpaying a guy for too long at the expense of addressing major holes in the lineup is a trap you just can't fall into.
Throw in the fact that 4 of our 7 defensemen are UFA, 2 of the remaining 3 defensemen are RFA, and we have a bunch of wingers going UFA as well. We can't afford to overpay for an oft injured antagonizer who might be coming off of his worst season statistically.

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01-05-2008, 12:17 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
You have to look ahead, because no doubt Rozsvial is going to want a multi-year deal. If BS is ready to join the team in '09, how does a 3 or 4 year deal for Rozsival effect that?
It doesn't because I suspect any one of the top four will be movable should the day come when BS is ready for top four minutes, if he does make the team in the fall, he will in all likelihood play bottom pairing minutes, and a move into the top4 will have to be earned. Then, you have a problem that is good to have; five quality defenseman, two very young, that are all very capable of top 4 minutes in nearly all situations.

it's very important to remember that he is still a prospect, nothing more.

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01-05-2008, 12:27 PM
  #31
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It would be a huge mistake not to re-sign Avery. From the sounds of things, though, Sather realizes what he brings to the table. All that I'm willing to take out of these comments is that this type of negotiation is going to take time.

Despite his past in LA, I'd imagine there a quite a few teams that would bring Avery in if he becomes a UFA. I'm sure Ken Holland in Detroit might be interested; as would the Islanders; even a young team like Chicago could be interested.

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01-05-2008, 12:35 PM
  #32
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I LOVE Avery. Absolutely love him. Everything about it. And I hope he's here for a very long time. But like most, I don't know if we can afford to pay him that much money if he doesn't produce more offensively. It really sets your whole team back. It's not question what he brings to this team but my only problem with that is, if the rest of the team needs someone ELSE to get them going every night, why are they in the NHL? You should play like that every night because you're blessed to be playing hockey for a living. Sean plays the game that way. But it shouldn't take his presence to make everyone else do that.

One of my major concerns with Sean though is this article that Sam posted on his blog. If I trust anyone's analysis on offensive ability it would be Jagr's. And Avery's comments are frustrating because Jagr says he has the ability to be that kind of player. But Sean comes across as not wanting to. If he wants to be back though, he might have to be.

"He can play any style," the captain said. "If he just decided not to play the way he plays now, he could play a skill game and score - I don't know, 30 or 40 goals."

"The way he is, the way he acts, the way he plays the game, the way he talks to people - that's what makes him play well," Jagr said. "He kind of likes that. But hurting him the other way, people kind of forget how good of a hockey player he is.

"Not many people have that ability to play any way they want," he added. "When people play that way, most of the time there's no other way to play for them. Ninety-nine percent of people who play his way can't play the other way."


http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...TS01/712290400

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Old
01-05-2008, 12:36 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BigE View Post
It would be a huge mistake not to re-sign Avery. From the sounds of things, though, Sather realizes what he brings to the table. All that I'm willing to take out of these comments is that this type of negotiation is going to take time.

Despite his past in LA, I'd imagine there a quite a few teams that would bring Avery in if he becomes a UFA. I'm sure Ken Holland in Detroit might be interested; as would the Islanders; even a young team like Chicago could be interested.
is it a bigger mistake to not resign avery, or not resign a 29 year old solid defenseman thats on pace for 51 pts?

I know what Avery "brings to the table" Im a Rangers fan, I live in Los Angeles, Ive seen every game this guy has played since traded from Detroit.

The bottom line is, the Rangers are going to be in a money crunch come this off season and some tough decisions are going to have to be made, put your avery fanboyness aside and think pro-actively about the rangers and their future. He gets the crowd going, that gets the team going, they win games, I get it. Again, this may be a very different team next season, loads of teams that have had more success than the rangers the last two seasons havent had an "avery" in the lineup.

If you need a guy like this to win hockey games, you aren't a very good hockey club to begin with. So addressing THOSE concerns should be your #1 priority.

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01-05-2008, 12:39 PM
  #34
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40 goal scorer, sure, if he could hit the net from time to time.

He's got speed and good on ice vision, he has a terrible, atrocious shot and questionable hands, I mean if were going to call a spade a spade, lets make sure were in touch with reality.

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01-05-2008, 12:50 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
**** Sather, if he doesn't resign Avery he should be fired

If its Rozi or Avery, bye bye Rozi we got enough young D
Thats opinion maybe on HF Boards.
But it doesn't work that way. If you think that Sather will allow Toots(25 years) to be the most experienced d-man on Rangers defence, keep dreaming.
Malik, Mara are gone.

Toots-Girardi
Staal-Baranka
Sauer-Struds ???

Nice potential in that lineup, but Sather would be nuts to allow that.

Hank, Rozsival, Avery...thats imo re-sing priority.

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01-05-2008, 12:51 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
Thats opinion maybe on HF Boards.
But it doesn't work that way. If you think that Sather will allow Toots(25 years) to be the most experienced d-man on Rangers defence, keep dreaming.
Malik, Mara are gone.

Toots-Girardi
Staal-Baranka
Sauer-Struds ???

Nice potential in that lineup, but Sather would be nuts to allow that.

Hank, Rozsival, Avery...thats imo re-sing priority.
So you get another, lower-level, less costly vet.

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01-05-2008, 12:59 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
So you get another, lower-level, less costly vet.


Good idea - lets weaken the defense in front of Hank to keep the agitator.

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01-05-2008, 01:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
So you get another, lower-level, less costly vet.
Even now Rangers are sorely missing proper puck moving d-man and PP QB. So they will part away with Rozsival who is the best going-to-be UFA this season?
And no, Girardi is not in Rozsival league...

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01-05-2008, 01:01 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick View Post
I love what Avery brings, but he has missed alot of time due to injury and doesn't show up on the stat sheet enough to earn 3.5 million per.
Agree completely. I say give him 4 years 10 million.

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01-05-2008, 01:04 PM
  #40
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Ya know, I only suggested it "may" be a choice between Avery and Rozsival.

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01-05-2008, 01:09 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
**** Sather, if he doesn't resign Avery he should be fired

If its Rozi or Avery, bye bye Rozi we got enough young D
stupid post. i trust sather's judgment on this one.

avery is great for us fans and for what he brings, but the team can also succeed without him. i love him but i'm not about to break the bank for him. he's not giving the rangers a discount and unfortunately he has a distorted view of himself being better than he really is. i won't keep my hopes up that he's back on the team next year, and i bet some players won't be missing him.

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01-05-2008, 01:22 PM
  #42
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A lot of good points made in this thread, I on the other hand..

Think that Avery isn't worth anything more than 3-3,2 mill a year. I say let him walk if he wants more.

And if it comes to Rozsival vs Avery with their contracts, I say keep Rozsival.. some are going to say I'm nuts..but..

If Avery does walk, he most likely will go to the Western Conference, that's where he knows best, he likes it there too, like Detroit. Which would mean, to us, that it wouldn't make much a difference since we wouldn't/would barely see him.

Rozsival improves every year offensively, he's still not yet 30, and this is his prime, granted he's having a career year this year because he knows that he's an impending UFA that is going to get a contract raise. He's on pace for 20 goals this season, every year since joining the Rangers he's doubled his goal total, and added 10 points to his totals, he's lost +/- but what does that matter right now. Rozsival will put up more points in his prime than Bobby Sangs will, I bet.

I like Bobby Sangs, but in no way can you say that we can easily replace Rozsival with him, especially since he'll need to be in his prime to catch Rozsival by close at all. I can see Rozsival putting up 20-40 or 15-45 in a few years, 2 or 3. At that point, Bobby Sangs will be ready to play in the NHL, and would probably barely reach 30 points in his first few years. I'd rather have Rozsival putting up 55-65.

Now if Rozsival is looking for anything more than 5 mill a year, I would say let him walk too, because at this specific point he isn't worth 5 mill a year, close, but I can see him wanting 5,5-6 mill.

Honestly, VisionQuest made a good point. Right now, Avery helps motivate this team, but will the future players of our team (1-4 years from now) need Avery's motivation to play well? Probably not.

We have an aged Shanahan, an aging Jagr and Straka, Drury and Gomez in our top six. This will be Drury and Gomez's team next year if not that the year after, it won't be Jagr's. We'll be done with our 35 year old + players and will bring in new offensive threats. They probably won't need the likes of Avery to produce.

A lot of Ranger players like Avery, you can tell, but a lot of them probably shake their head at almost 50% of the things he says or does, because a lot of times Avery takes things too far, and he doesn't put up enough points to say that he's valuable and worth a 4 mill a year contract, and certainly not anything more than that.

We can win without Avery, maybe not this year with these current players, but we will win without Avery eventually.

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Old
01-05-2008, 01:31 PM
  #43
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Sean Avery will never get 6M... we can't afford it.

Assuming Jagr, Shanahan, Straka, Mara, Malik and Hossa don't come back (likely, but who knows?), you'd still be extremely hard pressed to re-sign Lundqvist, Rozsival, Tyutin and Girardi (all of whose careers are taking off) AND sign Avery at 6M, AND re-stock the top two lines (unless you really expect Prucha, Dawes and Callahan to play there).

Then there are loose ends... do we bring back Valiquette (chump change, but cap space no less).

And do you really want to set that precedent? Paying a third liner 6M? The days of overpaying bottom six players are over. And he's on pace for less than .5 ppg -- injury or not, that does NOT merit 6M, no matter how many people you hit.

So what, we extend Orr @ 3M / 10 yrs 'cause he's finally learned to skate and carry the puck?

The writing is on the wall, IMO, and I see it going to arbitration again. Avery probably has a number set in his head... I personally would like him back, but not for more than 2.5M at this point.

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01-05-2008, 01:50 PM
  #44
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Avery is a media hound, and nobody would care about him if he was in Nashville or Carolina. I think he'll only sign in L.A, NY or Detroit so he'll get maximum exposore. He does bring a lot to the table, but paying more than 3 mil/year for a agitator with average hands and skills isn't a very good idea.

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01-05-2008, 02:12 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick View Post
I love what Avery brings, but he has missed alot of time due to injury and doesn't show up on the stat sheet enough to earn 3.5 million per.
Agree. I love Avery, but 3.5million a year for him? We'd have to pass....

2.8 /year is more in line.

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01-05-2008, 02:17 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by TK79 View Post
Avery is a media hound, and nobody would care about him if he was in Nashville or Carolina. I think he'll only sign in L.A, NY or Detroit so he'll get maximum exposore. He does bring a lot to the table, but paying more than 3 mil/year for a agitator with average hands and skills isn't a very good idea.
See, I think if Avery toned his game down just a notch (by that I mean trash talking et.al) he'd be a better player. It's obvious the guy has more than just average skill, is he a superstar? No, but he isn't just average. If the guy would lay off just a bit on being an agitator I think he'd be that much better.

JMHO, and I need to go take a shower as I feel dirty

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01-05-2008, 02:18 PM
  #47
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If Sather is talking about two groups--superstars and "the others", well then Avery is clearly in the second group. And I can't see the Rangers breaking the bank to re-sign him, despite the positive effect he has on the team. I either read or heard something about Avery's behavior in the locker room (I think it was from Renney or Shanahan), about how they've had to extinguish some mini Avery fires, just to keep him in line and make him realize he can't say certain things to certain players.

Lundqvist is obviously a priority before Avery. But I'd argue that Rozsival is as well. A team's #1 defenseman will always be more valuable than a pest like Avery. The Rangers could always explore other, less expensive avenues to bring in the same qualities Avery provides if they can't re-sign him. Defense wins championships, so I think it's a better building policy for Sather to secure Rozsival, Tyutin and Girardi as his top priority.

But like Glen Sather said, it all comes down to how much and for how long. It will be the same thing with Rozsival or any other free agent. I'm sure the organization would like both Avery and Rozsival back. I would, too, but only within reason and within a budget that has to allow for Gomez & Drury's salaries and Lundqvist's upcoming extension.

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01-05-2008, 02:19 PM
  #48
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Does any other team in the league offer Avery 3.5 a year in an open market? I don't see it. He's important to the success of the team, but we can't go overvaluing players with the cap situation.

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01-05-2008, 02:21 PM
  #49
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Forgot to add one thing, I also don't thinking signing Avery to a long term deal is the way to go. He's the type of player who can wear out his welcome and it would become very hard to get a decent return for him (given his reputation)

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01-05-2008, 02:28 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionQuest View Post
Good idea - lets weaken the defense in front of Hank to keep the agitator.
Glad you know the defense will be weakend. Any chance of you enlightening me on next week's lotto numbers?

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