HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Malik's Reaction on Being Scratched 2nite

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-06-2008, 07:29 PM
  #51
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
The following gms have been worse since Sather came to the Rangers

Ferguson
Lombardi
Feaster
Armstrong
Lowe
MOC
Maclean
Keenan

Those have all clearly been worse and some have been fired for their efforts. Sather is not that bad, look at what he took over and look where they are now.
Ferguson has been a GM for only 3 seasons. Too early to know how he has done.

Lombardi, during his tenure as Sharks GM, drafted Patrick Marleau, Brad Stuart, Scott Hannan, Marco Sturm and Marcel Goc in the first round along with Evgeni Nabokov, Jonathan Cheechoo, Vesa Toskala, Mark Smith, Ryane Clowe and Christian Ehrhoff in the later rounds. Much better than Sather.

Lowe has drafted Hemsky, Stoll, Cogliano and Gagner, not a great record but I wouldn't mind any of those forwards on the current Rangers roster.

Feaster has won a Cup since Sather took over the Rangers but has probably done a worse job at the draft table.

Armstrong is a bust to date, having only drafted Niskanen.

McLean drafted Klesla, Leclaire, Nash (traded up to get him), Joakin Lindstrom (early but I like what I've seen so far), Zherdev, Fritsche and Brule. Far better than Sather.

Keenan is a head case but a great short term coach. I think that while at Florida he drafted Olesz, Booth but he had a very short tenure, unlike Sather.

Sather might not be the worst but even by who you offer up, in my opinion they have for the most part done better than Sather and let's not forget that Sather had deep pockets while here. That is how he got Jagr. Picture this team without Jagr and it's downright scary.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 07:36 PM
  #52
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
I guess you missed the sarcasm in the post. Truth be told you've taken many a poster to task for criticizing Malik. Most posters will tell you that he has probably been our worst defensman this season!
I did miss the sarcasm, sorry. Malik may be our worst defender this year and I have taken many to task for what I feel is over the top criticism of Malik here and at the Garden.

Even playing poorly, he is better than Strudwick and Mara in my opinion. The fact that Giradi has regressed this season and that Tyutin is looking more and more like an average NHL defenseman (Hey, I wish I was one, don't get me wrong) also is happening right in front of our eyes but even when Malik is scratched and the Rangers lose, posts appear denigrating Malik instead of the players who have just lost and played poorly.

My central points remain that over the previous two years Malik played very well and was still hammered here, undeservedly so, primarily because he is big and does not hit.

The other point is that Sather has been an unmitigated disater yet we read endless threads about Malik and Renney. Sather is a man of teflon, for a reason that I have yet to understand.


Last edited by chosen: 01-06-2008 at 07:46 PM.
chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 07:43 PM
  #53
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Clark is runing the draft table anyway, not Sather...but, with that said. You left out Bobby Sanguinetti, who is arguable the best offensive defenceman in Jr hockey.

Also left out Anisimov who has tons of potential.

The reality of it is the Rangers under Sather have drafted quite well for themselves.
Two points:

If Sather is not running the drafts, why is he here? If Clark has been doing the damage, why is he still here? Responsibility for failure should always be placed at the top.

I never argued potentially who may or may not make it. Sanguinetti and Anisimov might turn out to be great but they may turn out to be busts. Every NHL team has players in the system that they hope will make it big.

The fact is, that the ones who have shown up have been very disappointing. Prucha, Callahan, Dawes, Jessiman not to mention the ones that haven't shown up like Falardeau.

I admit that if some of the others do make it then Sather will have done a good job. To date he has been an abject bust.

If Sather's name was something else he would have been gone a long time ago. He is living off a phony GM legend.

How many years would you give Sather to prove himself?

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 07:45 PM
  #54
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
Just like you constantly complain about no one giving Malik a break you do the same with Sather.
I have given Sather 10 years to prove he knows what he is doing. How long is an appropriate time?

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 08:03 PM
  #55
JerseyRangers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 1,619
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I have given Sather 10 years to prove he knows what he is doing. How long is an appropriate time?
You still haven't responded to my question. Given the position we've consistently drafted has Sather really done that badly? Unlike the Isles, Penguins, Blue Jackets, Lightning and many other teams the Rangers have hardly ever gotten a top 5 draft choice. Sather hasn't had a chance to draft a slam dunk prospect like a Lecavilier, Nash, Klesla, Marleau, Crosby or Malkin. He's consistently drafted closer to the #10 spot. Penguins had all those top 5 drafts and are they that much better than the Rangers? Sure they've got great forwards but their d stinks and right now MAF doesn't look like such a great goalie, does he?? The Isles also had a run of great draft picks and where are they?? How about the Capitals? All these teams have holes. The Rangers are solid as anyone up the middle. They don't have a top end, game breaking forward. I can recall more than one team winning the cup without a premier forward -- not too many have won without great goaltending and d. I agree with Sather, I'd rather build from the goalie on out!

JerseyRangers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 08:05 PM
  #56
Chunklee*
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 365
vCash: 500
trade malik + something for adam foote, thanks

Chunklee* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 08:12 PM
  #57
RMcDonagh
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunklee View Post
trade malik + something for adam foote, thanks
Wish it were that simple.

RMcDonagh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 08:26 PM
  #58
caldercup0
Registered User
 
caldercup0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hartford, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 721
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to caldercup0
Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
If Malik is dealt/traded I'd love to see Baranka up with the big club. I think he has earned a shot with the Rangers and in his 1 game he played solid. In mean he's in his 3rd season in the AHL. I think he is ready for the NHL.

Is he healthy though?
Not at the moment. He hasn't played since December 28th at Springfield.

caldercup0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 08:30 PM
  #59
FutureGM97
Registered User
 
FutureGM97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Connecticut, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,833
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FutureGM97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunklee View Post
trade malik + something for adam foote, thanks
y adam foote? just get a better dman thats not being paid 2.5 mill and or if u do get one making that much, make sure hes worth the 2.5 mill and not a zombie

FutureGM97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 08:32 PM
  #60
Lux Aurumque*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Country: Norway
Posts: 15,653
vCash: 500
We'll take Malik in Atlanta if you'll take Klee

Lux Aurumque* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 08:43 PM
  #61
Chunklee*
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureGM97 View Post
y adam foote? just get a better dman thats not being paid 2.5 mill and or if u do get one making that much, make sure hes worth the 2.5 mill and not a zombie
i only said adam foote because the rangers were supposedly interested in him, and hopefully he wouldnt cost too much, and him over malik is a massive upgrade imo.

Chunklee* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 08:49 PM
  #62
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 13,154
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunklee View Post
i only said adam foote because the rangers were supposedly interested in him, and hopefully he wouldnt cost too much, and him over malik is a massive upgrade imo.
Older, but massive - i agree.

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 08:51 PM
  #63
Ronnie Bass
elite pissy upside
 
Ronnie Bass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New Jersey
Country: Ireland
Posts: 20,267
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR94 View Post
Edmonton cops found him passed out on the ground in a courtyard and reeking of alcohol.



OMG, I know it's early in the year and all, I can't imagine ever a funnier post than this.

__________________
1995, 2000, 2003..........
Ronnie Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 08:58 PM
  #64
bubba5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
The following gms have been worse since Sather came to the Rangers

Ferguson
Lombardi
Feaster
Armstrong
Lowe
MOC
Maclean
Keenan

Those have all clearly been worse and some have been fired for their efforts. Sather is not that bad, look at what he took over and look where they are now.
Didn't Lowe and the Oilers go to the Stanley Cup Finals 2 years ago? I don't think that qualifies as being a bad GM, even if the team is struggling now.

bubba5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 11:41 PM
  #65
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 8,364
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I did miss the sarcasm, sorry. Malik may be our worst defender this year and I have taken many to task for what I feel is over the top criticism of Malik here and at the Garden.

Even playing poorly, he is better than Strudwick and Mara in my opinion. The fact that Giradi has regressed this season and that Tyutin is looking more and more like an average NHL defenseman (Hey, I wish I was one, don't get me wrong) also is happening right in front of our eyes but even when Malik is scratched and the Rangers lose, posts appear denigrating Malik instead of the players who have just lost and played poorly.

My central points remain that over the previous two years Malik played very well and was still hammered here, undeservedly so, primarily because he is big and does not hit.

The other point is that Sather has been an unmitigated disater yet we read endless threads about Malik and Renney. Sather is a man of teflon, for a reason that I have yet to understand.
Pretty much agree with all points you've made on this thread Chosen. I will say that I wasn't thrilled by the Malik signing--and predicted that he would be hated here by the end of his contract--but will acknowledge that he played pretty well up to this year. And even now, as far as I'm concerned, he's still an every day NHL defenseman, albeit one who is on the downside of his career and needs to have his minutes monitored more closely. But Strudwick in the lineup regularly over him? That's insane.

As for Sather: whatever hope I had for him when he was signed is long gone. It's nice to see some homegrown kids in the lineup, but none of them (besides Lundqvist and Staal) looks like the type of player who forms a core of young players you build around and expect a championship from. The curtain has been pulled back many times and left him exposed, but Sather still manages to survive because of the team he put together over 20 years ago. Teflon indeed.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 11:52 PM
  #66
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 51,725
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Ferguson has been a GM for only 3 seasons. Too early to know how he has done.

Lombardi, during his tenure as Sharks GM, drafted Patrick Marleau, Brad Stuart, Scott Hannan, Marco Sturm and Marcel Goc in the first round along with Evgeni Nabokov, Jonathan Cheechoo, Vesa Toskala, Mark Smith, Ryane Clowe and Christian Ehrhoff in the later rounds. Much better than Sather.

Lowe has drafted Hemsky, Stoll, Cogliano and Gagner, not a great record but I wouldn't mind any of those forwards on the current Rangers roster.

Feaster has won a Cup since Sather took over the Rangers but has probably done a worse job at the draft table.

Armstrong is a bust to date, having only drafted Niskanen.

McLean drafted Klesla, Leclaire, Nash (traded up to get him), Joakin Lindstrom (early but I like what I've seen so far), Zherdev, Fritsche and Brule. Far better than Sather.

Keenan is a head case but a great short term coach. I think that while at Florida he drafted Olesz, Booth but he had a very short tenure, unlike Sather.

Sather might not be the worst but even by who you offer up, in my opinion they have for the most part done better than Sather and let's not forget that Sather had deep pockets while here. That is how he got Jagr. Picture this team without Jagr and it's downright scary.
Maclean's drafting record should be stricken because he had high pick after high pick because he was never able to ice a good team. Feaster inherited a team that went on to win a cup, since the cup his teams have been progressively worse. Lombardi has been a total bust so far in LA leading one to believe that his drafting success in San Jose was due more to a strong scouting staff that was already in place. Looking at draft results is not the best way to look at how good a gm is. When Lowe took over the Oilers they were a playoff team and now they are a luaghing stock of the league. When Sather took over the Rangers they were a laughing stock and now they are legitimatly good. I understand you are frustrated this team is not in a class of its own in the league, but Sather has been far from the worst gm.

Fish on The Sand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2008, 11:56 PM
  #67
Fuzzy Bunny
Registered User
 
Fuzzy Bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountVancouver'94 View Post
Not sure if anyone heard this already...but I just wanted to throw this out there from Dellapina's Blog:

"Upon being informed that he would be the defenseman sitting out tonight to make room for Strudwick, Malik reacted angrily.

He put on his overcoat and stormed out of the Rangers’ lockerroom and into the Edmonton night. Where he was going was unclear
"

"That's what I want!" "I don't want Marek out there, I want the Rocket!"- Tom Renney

Fuzzy Bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 12:34 AM
  #68
DonCherrysSuit
Powerplay Pass Party
 
DonCherrysSuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Buffalo
Country: United States
Posts: 918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PensPatrol View Post
"That's what I want!" "I don't want Marek out there, I want the Rocket!"- Tom Renney


Anyway, I hope they get rid of Malik. I was not much of a detractor until recently, but his play has really gone down this season and I think it's because he and New York just don't get along; he's just not a good fit for the team. All the crap Rangers fans gave him last season (without merit) seems to have affected him and now he's actually playing poorly. Unfortunately he won't clear waivers so we can't stick him in Hartford with Pock and I don't wait to just waive the guy so we have to stick with him until someone's willing to trade for him.

DonCherrysSuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 12:38 AM
  #69
BDubinskyNYR17*
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 10,761
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BDubinskyNYR17*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Maclean's drafting record should be stricken because he had high pick after high pick because he was never able to ice a good team. Feaster inherited a team that went on to win a cup, since the cup his teams have been progressively worse. Lombardi has been a total bust so far in LA leading one to believe that his drafting success in San Jose was due more to a strong scouting staff that was already in place. Looking at draft results is not the best way to look at how good a gm is. When Lowe took over the Oilers they were a playoff team and now they are a luaghing stock of the league. When Sather took over the Rangers they were a laughing stock and now they are legitimatly good. I understand you are frustrated this team is not in a class of its own in the league, but Sather has been far from the worst gm.
I think Garth Snow has to be the worst, letting Asham and Smyth go while signing sim, jackman and resign simon

BDubinskyNYR17* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 12:44 AM
  #70
TomLaidlaw
Registered User
 
TomLaidlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Transylvania
Country: Romania
Posts: 3,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR94 View Post
Edmonton cops found him passed out on the ground in a courtyard and reeking of alcohol.

Fantastic.

TomLaidlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 12:59 AM
  #71
TomLaidlaw
Registered User
 
TomLaidlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Transylvania
Country: Romania
Posts: 3,192
vCash: 500
Malik walked a very thin line here in NY because he was a big defenseman who didn't play physical. Historically our fan base likes to get on big players who don't hit, fight or clear the front of the net. Fans tend to be more patient/forgiving with players who play physcial. If your a soft player you almost have to play mistake free hockey because if you don't everyone is waiting to jump on you. The technical term for this behavior is called the Willie Huber Condition.

TomLaidlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 01:31 AM
  #72
Airborne Troll*
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,862
vCash: 500
I hope my Sens can aquire Malik..........only for shootouts

Airborne Troll* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 06:10 AM
  #73
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
You still haven't responded to my question. Given the position we've consistently drafted has Sather really done that badly?
I have, and the answer is an emphatic yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
I can recall more than one team winning the cup without a premier forward
Who?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
-- I agree with Sather, I'd rather build from the goalie on out!
I can't believe that anyone believes this drivel. Sather isn't building from the goal out. He got lucky that Lundqvist is a franchise goalie. He didn't take him in the first round. It's convenient to have a policy after the results are in.

You haven't responded to my question:

How long would you give Sather?

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 06:16 AM
  #74
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Lombardi has been a total bust so far in LA leading one to believe that his drafting success in San Jose was due more to a strong scouting staff that was already in place.
How long has Lombardi been in LA? How long has Sather been in NY?

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 07:54 AM
  #75
JerseyRangers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 1,619
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I have, and the answer is an emphatic yes.

Who?
Right off the top of my head how about the Devils, the Ducks and the Canes. None of those teams had a Crosby, Lemeuix (not including Claude), or Gretzky. All 3 teams had solid to great goaltending. The Ducks and the Devils had a corp of d-men that was excellent. All 3 teams had a good group of forwards (not much better then what we have right now).


Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I can't believe that anyone believes this drivel. Sather isn't building from the goal out. He got lucky that Lundqvist is a franchise goalie. He didn't take him in the first round. It's convenient to have a policy after the results are in.

You haven't responded to my question:

How long would you give Sather?
Yeah just like he got unlucky that the previous franchise goaltender (Blackburn) suffered a freak injury that killed his career. If Blackburn doesn't get injured we don't waste the Montoya pick and probably could have ended up drafting a great forward. You could also say that he got lucky that Staal fell to him. I will counter by saying we got unlucky with all the concussion problems our d-men have been having over the last couple of years. Bottom line -- luck runs both ways. If Blackburn had recoverd and the Rangers hadn't been forced to draft Montoya where would this team be?

Finally as to your question -- why would I advocate firing a gm whose taken an organization that he inherited with no prospects whatsoever and built a fairly solid prospect base. When Sather took over how many players under the age of 25 did we have on the team? How about in the system? Look at our AHL teams going back to 1999 and 2000. We had a bunch of career AHL'ers with very few legit prospects. Although this organization certainly lacks top end offensive talent we are strong in net, have a very solid group of young d-men, and have a good group of forwards. You don't need to look any further than the Pack and the # of players that we had at the WJC to confirm that.

If you are equating success with winning the Cup then most every GM in the NHL should be fired. There are a bunch of teams that haven't won squat in the last 10 years -- does this mean all of their GM's failed? I am looking for constant improvement in the standings at the NHL and AHL level. Over the last 3 years we've certainly seen an improvement at every level. Why fire Sather?

JerseyRangers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:32 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.