HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Prospects
Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

Future Greats and Hearbreaks by Gare Joyce

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-07-2008, 12:03 PM
  #76
Free Torts
Registered User
 
Free Torts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,439
vCash: 883
Send a message via MSN to Free Torts
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny canuckistan View Post
I enjoyed the book, and have also enjoyed the book on Piestany.

I was particularly horrified to read about what it's like for these young WHL'ers to play in Swift Current. I would have assumed that they would have a generally positive experience playing in a small town that is lucky to have a franchise, and yet it seems to be the opposite. Very strange.

Anyway, thanks for a good read Gare.
I found the Swift Current story to be interesting as well. It's interesting that a town that is so small and a team that has been so terrible and is always the first club mentioned when fans talk about dub teams relocating, that the people there could treat the kids so poorly.

I would imagine at least some of it has to do with jealousy, especially from the non-hockey playing kids, but man, reading about that blew me away, especially after I lived in a small prairie town where the local junior A team's players were treated like kings.

Just for kicks, I went and read the Broncos' forum on whlfans.ca, and suffice to say, Gare hasn't made any friends there, although I think it's more of a bitterness that they've been found out, as they resorted to personal attacks when describing him.


Last edited by Free Torts: 01-07-2008 at 12:13 PM.
Free Torts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 01:11 PM
  #77
gare joyce
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
Kirk, I just checked on chapters/indigo ... there's only two copies of FGs & HBs left at the Coles in Swift Current ... that means somebody has started fires with the other four ... que sera. Like I said before, Darcy Regier (from Swift Current) said it was fair and accurate (which makes me wonder if Lindy Ruff ... well, I dunno, I'll quit while I'm ahead) ... managed to get to No. 1 among hockey books on amazon with Swift Current

gare joyce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 01:31 PM
  #78
Free Torts
Registered User
 
Free Torts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,439
vCash: 883
Send a message via MSN to Free Torts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gare joyce View Post
Kirk, I just checked on chapters/indigo ... there's only two copies of FGs & HBs left at the Coles in Swift Current ... that means somebody has started fires with the other four ... que sera. Like I said before, Darcy Regier (from Swift Current) said it was fair and accurate (which makes me wonder if Lindy Ruff ... well, I dunno, I'll quit while I'm ahead) ... managed to get to No. 1 among hockey books on amazon with Swift Current
Well, even if they were used for kindling, someone did spend the money to buy it (although, if I remember correctly, you said you don't make anything off the back end of book sales).

As for the letter, it sounds awfully bitter and a bit condescending and does nothing to dispel what Gare wrote in his book. So far, I haven't seen anything to disprove claims made in the book, outside of people who are "loyal" to the team and probably wouldn't be unbiased, either. I haven't seen any former players who are not currently employed by the Broncos come out to defend them.

Free Torts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 02:02 PM
  #79
Sabes
Registered User
 
Sabes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Saskatchewan
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,230
vCash: 500
Just placed my order online for it.

Sabes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 02:51 PM
  #80
gare joyce
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
The letter is from the wife of a former Bronco and now a coach in the Dub. Real objective. Counter-balance that.

gare joyce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 03:00 PM
  #81
Free Torts
Registered User
 
Free Torts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,439
vCash: 883
Send a message via MSN to Free Torts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gare joyce View Post
The letter is from the wife of a former Bronco and now a coach in the Dub. Real objective. Counter-balance that.
My thoughts exactly. That's a pretty weak defense.

Where's Joe Sakic speaking out on this so-called "myth"? Sheldon kennedy? Bryan Trottier? Geoff Sanderson?

Free Torts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 03:27 PM
  #82
Ti-girl
Registered User
 
Ti-girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Merida, Mexico
Country: Mexico
Posts: 7,913
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Ti-girl Send a message via Yahoo to Ti-girl
I have friends in Swift who said they flat out refused to talk to or deal with any of the Broncos.

Personally, I had the same stigma until I went and worked with a team a few years ago.

There are *******s in every team or job, but usually their are a few good guys to out weigh the *****.

__________________
"I channeled my inner Morneau, took the stick and hit the mother****** to the moooon!"
Ti-girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 03:30 PM
  #83
Canuck71
Registered User
 
Canuck71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,189
vCash: 500
60 pages into the book and Im loving it and have already learned a great deal of knowledge about the draft that I didnt know before. I couldnt put it down last night. I agree this is a must have for any draft fan/NHL fan, you wont be disapointed.

Canuck71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 03:48 PM
  #84
gare joyce
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
edited


Last edited by gare joyce: 01-07-2008 at 03:54 PM.
gare joyce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 04:30 PM
  #85
Brock
Moderator
 
Brock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oakville
Posts: 9,210
vCash: 500
Gare, I'm up to page 283 now (just finished Part two). I truly haven't been able to put it down.

Anyway, I have a question for you. Have you received any response from some of the players that you talk about in this book? Guys like Aliu, Esposito, Kessel? Have any of them sent you thoughts on the way they were portrayed?

Brock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 05:01 PM
  #86
gare joyce
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
Talked to Akim Aliu last week. We're good.

Kessel said that I "took things out of context" ... hey, there is no "context" ... the Columbus scouts said that I went easy on him, that his interview was even worse.

Not that I'm too worried.

gare joyce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 09:22 PM
  #87
Anthony Mauro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Anthony Mauro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,304
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gare joyce View Post
Talked to Akim Aliu last week. We're good.

Kessel said that I "took things out of context" ... hey, there is no "context" ... the Columbus scouts said that I went easy on him, that his interview was even worse.

Not that I'm too worried.
Don't be.

Kessel can pay to learn the meaning of context with the money he got from leaving school early and missing out on that lesson!

__________________
2014 NHL DRAFT BLOG - offering original scouting content
TWITTER - providing statistical updates
2014 RANKINGS - monthly draft rankings
Anthony Mauro is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 09:31 PM
  #88
Free Torts
Registered User
 
Free Torts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,439
vCash: 883
Send a message via MSN to Free Torts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gare joyce View Post
Talked to Akim Aliu last week. We're good.

Kessel said that I "took things out of context" ... hey, there is no "context" ... the Columbus scouts said that I went easy on him, that his interview was even worse.

Not that I'm too worried.
Pretty hard to take things out of context when you're writing down verbatim what others are saying about him. His beef shouldn't be with you. I'll bet Don Boyd had a good laugh about that.

Free Torts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 10:10 PM
  #89
Super Reverse Homer
Registered User
 
Super Reverse Homer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Beijing, China
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 9,619
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Super Reverse Homer Send a message via MSN to Super Reverse Homer
Quote:
Originally Posted by gare joyce View Post
Mike, I'm sorry for that. I assure you that I see not a penny from that seven bucks. A goofy oversight ... my Random House contract just called for Canadian rights and distribution, nothing for the U.S. (My two books previous were North American rights, etc)
Hmm, I am guessing it'd be difficult for me to get my hands on a copy of your book here in China? Does Random House have an international shipping service?

Or any other sites I can use? Really would love to read your work. I don't mind paying a little more for the trouble.

Super Reverse Homer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 10:11 PM
  #90
slade
Registered User
 
slade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: 18 Winspear Ltd.
Country: United States
Posts: 2,515
vCash: 500
very excited for the book.

slade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 10:17 PM
  #91
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 8,713
vCash: 500
just ordered my copy, sounds like a great read

HatTrick Swayze is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 10:27 PM
  #92
gare joyce
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
I have yet to negotiate a deal to sell rights in China ... but seriously ...

I'm supposed to travel to China before the Olympics--tentative at this pt. Are you in Beijing? PM me.

Very gratifying to hear about the interest, tho'.

gare joyce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 10:56 PM
  #93
Beauty, eh?
Not sure if serious.
 
Beauty, eh?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Southern California
Country: United States
Posts: 5,360
vCash: 500
Slightly OT - here's a solid read on the Swift Current Broncos if anyone is interested -

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick...t&lid=tab1pos1

Beauty, eh? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 11:07 PM
  #94
Hiishawk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Out there somewhere
Posts: 1,155
vCash: 500
Gare- not knowing the details on Kessel's response I may be a bit off-base here but when I read the book there was one section that struck me the way it may have struck Kessell (operative word "may").

If I remember correctly, you described how when he entered the interview the first "question" was a simple word "Teammates!". He seemed nonplussed by this question and you said that because of this he seemed to be feigning ignorance about his alleged problems with teammates.

However, I think if I entered an interview and the first questions was not a question but a simple word "Teammates!", I would have been a bit lost too. The scouts may have been pouring over this in their minds for awhile so the context would be very clear to all the scouts in the room. But to Phil coming in from the waiting room to hear this, well...
You want to know something about my teammates? Who I like? Who I work well with? Do you want to know who my teammates were? Where they are now? How I use them in my on-ice game? What about my teammates are you referring to? One incident? If so, what?

When I read the book I thought this was a bit hard on the guy. Loved the book as a whole though- so much of it rang true to my own experiences.

Hiishawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 11:22 PM
  #95
gare joyce
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
Since publication I've been asked about this. At some pt in time I've stumbled on a few late-coming insights. A standard one: it's not like a job interview but rather a police interrogration ... sometimes it's good cop-bad cop, sometimes just bad cop. Within a moment or two, with no further explanation from Boyd, Kessel mentions Jack Johnson (not one of his team-mates growing up in Wisconsin or at the U of Minn). These kids are prepped by their agents and the agents tell them what to expect--not just the process but the questions that linger out there. It's like they've already lawyered up but can't take the lawyer in there with them. Many of the players are very savvy (Toews for instance) and manage to dance around tough questions, but Kessel was like Humphery Bogart in The Caine Mutiny. Try to see it from the teams' viewpoint: They don't owe these kids anything, it's not about fairness. They look at these players as potential frauds and cheats trying to separate their general managers from significant pieces of their payrolls. The scouts, etc not only feel like they're entitled to ask tough questions in any way, shape or form to get at the truth--no, they feel obliged to do so, that is, they feel like they wouldn't be doing their jobs otherwise.

Phil Kessel wasn't being interviewed to get into a college program or for a normal job application--with millions on the line, normal rules and etiquette go out the window. And of course if a player doesn't like it, he can walk out. They don't lock the doors. None of the players will of course.


Last edited by gare joyce: 01-08-2008 at 12:21 AM.
gare joyce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2008, 11:26 PM
  #96
VanNistelrooy
Registered User
 
VanNistelrooy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Habs Land
Posts: 2,462
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty, eh? View Post
Slightly OT - here's a solid read on the Swift Current Broncos if anyone is interested -

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick...t&lid=tab1pos1
What an article...

This article convinced me to buy 2 of your books on amazon.ca (By the way, amazon offer great combined deals !!). Looking forward to reading them, Gare !

VanNistelrooy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2008, 12:06 AM
  #97
Beauty, eh?
Not sure if serious.
 
Beauty, eh?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Southern California
Country: United States
Posts: 5,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanNistelrooy View Post
What an article...

This article convinced me to buy 2 of your books on amazon.ca (By the way, amazon offer great combined deals !!). Looking forward to reading them, Gare !
Gare, do I get a kickback of any sort? jk.

Beauty, eh? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2008, 01:31 AM
  #98
Hiishawk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Out there somewhere
Posts: 1,155
vCash: 500
Thanks for your reply above.

I understand the need to be tough in the interviews, to bypass the canned responses and to see what the player is made of under pressure. I have no problem with that. I participated in the interviews a few years back and we wanted to get down to brass tacks too. One player we asked, "You changed billets three times this year. Are you are hard guy to live with?". To another we said, "You asked for a trade mid-season. Isn't that quitting on your teammates?". Tough questions- but the contexts and question points were clear.

I thought Boyd's opening one-word salvo to Kessel sounded like a kind of discourse problem (but of course I wasn't there).

By the way, somewhere in the HFBoard archives, after the 2007 draft, when folks here were arguing about who "won" the draft (always a presumptuous topic but what the hey) I mentioned that except for us, I thought that Columbus drafted the best.

Hiishawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2008, 02:09 AM
  #99
gare joyce
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
I think Columbus did great to get Voracek @ 7 and Legein @ 37. (I didn't see Legein at # 12 in North America/skater, where Central had him, thought that over-valued him a little, but I liked him a lot from about a dozen views in Mississauga, certainly would have argued for him in the second round.) Weber, I don't know about, not a clue, blind-sided by that. But combine these pieces from the last draft with Brassard (if he can stay healthy), Mason, Sestito, Boll and Russell (hope he isn't being rushed) ... even in Brule and Picarde don't pan out that's a pretty decent organizational base put together in a hurry. If Mayorov pans out/signs, who knows?

gare joyce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2008, 02:44 AM
  #100
Draft Guru
The Wizard of Özil
 
Draft Guru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 6,569
vCash: 500
I can't believe I did not see this thread sooner. This seems like the perfect book for me. As a journalist and wanna-be scout, I probably won't be able to put this book down once I start reading it. I'm ordering this right now. Can't wait to read it!

Draft Guru is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:21 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.